NC = CC

[jawofboston]

Perhaps I'm biased, as ~60% of the cigars I smoke are non-Cuban, but I think there are a number of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars that are the equal, and sometimes the superior, of many cuban cigars. My list would include:

1. Rocky Patel Decades. Chocolate, leather, smooth flavours, in short excellent.

2. Don Pepin Blue, especially the lanceros and torpedo. Fabulous.

3. La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami (visited the factory to watch them being made, and left with several boxes of the "Elegantes" which are churchill sized, and absolutely stunning)

4. Tatuaje Reserve SW - churchill sized, one of the best cigars I've ever smoked; aromatic, rich, powerful.

5. Padron 1926 - much better, IMHO, than the 1964. Spice, cedar, leather, long finish. Superb.

Of course, I had a Cohiba Siglo VI for the first time last week, and thought "this is the first cigar I've ever smoked"!

[yossie]

Don't invoke Jimmy...

[Ethernut]

Your last sentence about the Sig VI pretty much captures the essence of why CCs are so popular. When they are "on" theyre unstoppable.

[El Presidente]

I think as in all things it is subjective.

Personally there are perhaps a half dozen NC cigars I would actually pay money for. There are perhaps a half dozen Cuban cigars I wouldn't pay money for.

The problem in assessing my statement above is that I have not sampled all NC cigars and done so repeatedly. So my view is worthless.

For the same reason......so is yours

[Jesuscookies]

Order 10~20 boxes of CC's then come back and update this thread when you have smoked them all.

[Jesuscookies]

Now it's getting personal!

I think as in all things it is subjective.

Personally there are perhaps a half dozen NC cigars I would actually pay money for. There are perhaps a half dozen Cuban cigars I wouldn't pay money for.

The problem in assessing my statement above is that I have not sampled all NC cigars and done so repeatedly. So my view is worthless.

For the same reason......so is yours

[El Presidente]

Not at all JC. I didn't intend for it to be so.

However, if only last weekend a Siglo VI was tried, then it makes me wonder about some of the other classics (which are better).

I am no different in terms of NC. My knowledge really is not deep enough to allow me to expand a worthwhile comment.

[Jesuscookies]

Not at all JC. I didn't intend for it to be so.

However, if only last weekend a Siglo VI was tried, then it makes me wonder about some of the other classics (which are better).

I am no different in terms of NC. My knowledge really is not deep enough to allow me to expand a worthwhile comment.

I'm just messin with you, and to your point, that is why I suggested he smoke a few, before commenting.

[Tampa1257]

As this is not a review, I am movingit to a more appropriate forum, the watering hole.

Tampa

[Colt45]

Perhaps I'm biased, as ~60% of the cigars I smoke are non-Cuban, but I think there are a number of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars that are the equal, and sometimes the superior, of many cuban cigars.

If by equal or surpass you mean consistency, quality of construction, and care given to the tobacco and cigars, I agree wholeheartedly.

If by equal or surpass you mean to your palate, you prefer many NCs to CCs, there can be no argument.

If by equal or surpass you mean many NCs exhibit flavor and complexity surpassing many / most CCs, I'd say you're selling snake oil.

But that's just my opinion.

[Habanos2000]

If by equal or surpass you mean consistency, quality of construction, and care given to the tobacco and cigars, I agree wholeheartedly.

If by equal or surpass you mean to your palate, you prefer many NCs to CCs, there can be no argument.

If by equal or surpass you mean many NCs exhibit flavor and complexity surpassing many / most CCs, I'd say you're selling snake oil.

But that's just my opinion.

Well put, Colt.

[Ginseng]

Don't invoke Jimmy...

Don't provoke him, either.

Wilkey

[Habanos2000]

Don't provoke him, either.

Wilkey

I'm sure his ears are ringing!

[Ethernut]

Perhaps I'm biased, as ~60% of the cigars I smoke are non-Cuban, but I think there are a number of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars that are the equal, and sometimes the superior, of many cuban cigars. My list would include:

1. Rocky Patel Decades. Chocolate, leather, smooth flavours, in short excellent.

2. Don Pepin Blue, especially the lanceros and torpedo. Fabulous.

3. La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami (visited the factory to watch them being made, and left with several boxes of the "Elegantes" which are churchill sized, and absolutely stunning)

4. Tatuaje Reserve SW - churchill sized, one of the best cigars I've ever smoked; aromatic, rich, powerful.

5. Padron 1926 - much better, IMHO, than the 1964. Spice, cedar, leather, long finish. Superb.

Of course, I had a Cohiba Siglo VI for the first time last week, and thought "this is the first cigar I've ever smoked"!

If you dont mind me asking, what CC's have you spent the most time with?

[zuma]

Perhaps I'm biased, as ~60% of the cigars I smoke are non-Cuban, but I think there are a number of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars that are the equal, and sometimes the superior, of many cuban cigars.

Are you sure that your Cuban cigars are not fakes?

(I am not suggesting they are fake... but given the large quantity of fakes in the US market, it is fair to ask: do you procure your cigars through unquestionably legit cigar purveyors, or do you buy them in the streets in Tijuana or through some "friend" with contacts in Cuba?)

But, assuming your cigars are legit, it all goes to taste preferences... just because someone prefers cigarettes to cigars doesn't make "in general" cigarettes better or equal to cigars. Regardless of which cigars you prefer, do extol the virtues of the smokes you like, do describe the wonderful tastes and complexity of what you find in them... Negative generalisations about Cuban cigars may be not be well received on your 3rd post. Man, this is a Cuban cigar forum after all ... you'll not find me in a Nicaraguan nor Dominican Forum - even if I smoke the occasional change-of-pace (gifted) NC.

[PointSource]

Perhaps I'm biased, as ~60% of the cigars I smoke are non-Cuban, but I think there are a number of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars that are the equal, and sometimes the superior, of many cuban cigars. My list would include:

1. Rocky Patel Decades. Chocolate, leather, smooth flavours, in short excellent.

2. Don Pepin Blue, especially the lanceros and torpedo. Fabulous.

3. La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami (visited the factory to watch them being made, and left with several boxes of the "Elegantes" which are churchill sized, and absolutely stunning)

4. Tatuaje Reserve SW - churchill sized, one of the best cigars I've ever smoked; aromatic, rich, powerful.

5. Padron 1926 - much better, IMHO, than the 1964. Spice, cedar, leather, long finish. Superb.

Of course, I had a Cohiba Siglo VI for the first time last week, and thought "this is the first cigar I've ever smoked"!

I've smoked 30-40 RP Decades from different boxes....and they all were bland. Not even close to an average CC, IMO.

Don Pepin Blue is a good NC...especially the Lancero. Still, overall inferior. DPG Cuban Classic is much better, IMO.

Never had the LGCAs.

Tatuaje Reserve SW - wholeheartedly disagree here. Not even close, IMO.

Padron 1926. This is the best NC I've had. Superb!

[Ken Gargett]

Are you sure that your Cuban cigars are not fakes?

just for a moment, i thought you were asking rob that. almost lost my lunch giggling.

[maalouly]

Of course, I had a Cohiba Siglo VI for the first time last week, and thought "this is the first cigar I've ever smoked"!

You are 100% correct, that's what happens when you smoke NC and you shift to CC you will realise you haven't been smoking cigars all that time

[IceChant]

Don't wake the lions...

If it's what you like enjoy yourself but if you didn't really try CC and you say that it's unfair.

There are good NC.

There are good CC.

Which one is the best ? why do we even need to go there ? smoke what you like.

[Kangaroo495]

Perhaps I'm biased, as ~60% of the cigars I smoke are non-Cuban, but I think there are a number of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars that are the equal, and sometimes the superior, of many cuban cigars. My list would include:

1. Rocky Patel Decades. Chocolate, leather, smooth flavours, in short excellent.

2. Don Pepin Blue, especially the lanceros and torpedo. Fabulous.

3. La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami (visited the factory to watch them being made, and left with several boxes of the "Elegantes" which are churchill sized, and absolutely stunning)

4. Tatuaje Reserve SW - churchill sized, one of the best cigars I've ever smoked; aromatic, rich, powerful.

5. Padron 1926 - much better, IMHO, than the 1964. Spice, cedar, leather, long finish. Superb.

Of course, I had a Cohiba Siglo VI for the first time last week, and thought "this is the first cigar I've ever smoked"!

Haven't tried any of the NC's which you listed here, but I have tried a few others, which I would say are on the level of the top Cubans.

For example Oliva V Torpedo or Perdomo Habano (the big fat one, can't remember the exact name for it). I'd probably buy these two, but no more than once a year.

I agree with one of the earlier posts in that NCs have impeccable construction and burning qualities, and the cubans can often be ugly and uneven. But the main difference is flavour. Cubans have amazing complexity, NCs don't. Can't stand smoking a cigar where the flavour doesn't change from the tip of the first third right down to the butt. What's the point of smoking it then? I'd rather eat a peice of cake which also tastes the same from start to finish (unless you lick the icing off the top first).

Once I got into Cubans, I couldn't smoke anything else... ever. (Except cigarettes)

Would be interested to try the NCs which you listed above though. Could prove me wrong.

[CigarmanTim]

Don't invoke Jimmy...

Please delete this so Jimmy doesn't see it lol

[Stalebread]

Don't wake the lions...

If it's what you like enjoy yourself but if you didn't really try CC and you say that it's unfair.

There are good NC.

There are good CC.

Which one is the best ? why do we even need to go there ? smoke what you like.

Yes !

.

[jawofboston]

If you dont mind me asking, what CC's have you spent the most time with?

Good question, and I think part of what excites me about this question as there are A LOT of CCs I've not tried. For a long time for me a Cuban cigar was a Montecristo. I've smoked a lot of those, mostly 2's and 4's, and they are of course superb. Also have had the RyJ Churchill pretty consistently. Until recently I had NEVER tried a Cohiba. I've GOT to have more of those! Also the H. Upmann #46 has been an eye opener. Never had a Partagas Series D until a few weeks ago. So, I'm no expert on Cuban cigars. Just trying to contribute what I do know about.

All of my CCs until very recently came from London or one of a couple shops in Paris. All high end, so I have no doubt of the quality/authenticity. The reasons for the 40% CC versus 60% NC are 1. I genuinely love a lot of non-CCs, 2. I live in Connecticut, and my wife grew up working on a tobacco farm, so I've got a bit of a connection to the Connecticut shade, which I also genuinely love, and 3. Cuban cigars in Europe, especially in London and Paris, are darned expensive! Recently, I've bought a couple of small orders from the Czar which are more reasonably priced, I believe for tax reasons. Plan on ramping up the purchases in the future to further enhance my palate. I don't for a minute doubt the sincerity of all of your devotion to Cuban cigars (that's why I'm here)!. Actually, it rather reminds me of my education in wine; had a pretty limited view until about 15 years ago my father in law bought a wine shop. That was an eye-opener.

[Stalebread]

. . .

I agree with one of the earlier posts in that NCs have impeccable construction and burning qualities, and the cubans can often be ugly and uneven. But the main difference is flavour. Cubans have amazing complexity, NCs don't. Can't stand smoking a cigar where the flavour doesn't change from the tip of the first third right down to the butt. What's the point of smoking it then? I'd rather eat a peice of cake which also tastes the same from start to finish (unless you lick the icing off the top first).

. . .

Non-Cuban cigars do have construction problems. Maybe not as pervasive as we seem to think it is with Cuban cigars but NCs are not perfect.

About complexity -- I know I am the outlier here but my experience is that non-Cuban cigars are certainly capable of complexity. Saying that "NCs don't (have complexity)" is just too much of a blanket statement for me to accept. Recently I had a three year old La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Especiales that was delightfully complex with citrus and earthy and leather notes exchanging places throughout the entire smoke. I did not know what to expect from one puff to the next.

I'm not trying to make a value judgement one way or the other, just that my own experience (for what it's worth) does not bear out statements like, "Non-Cubans don't have complexity." I understand that some people will stomp their feet and raise their voice to tell me that non-Cuban cigars do not and cannot have complexity. My own experience tells me otherwise.

More than that, where does the idea come from that our cigars have to have complexity. Have to change or evolve for the length of the cigar? Why do we demand that? We don't demand it from that piece of cake. As long as it's a flavorful cake we don't condemn it because the last bite was the same as the first bite.

What about our drinks? I had a glass of RZ23 rum last night. As far as I could tell, the last sip was just as good and just the same as the first sip. Although I would say that each sip was complex. The rum in the glass did not change from one sip to another. Why do we demand that kind of change from our cigars? Ken, what about wine? Is it expected that the flavor in a glass of wine will change from the first taste of a given glass to the last taste of that same glass?

It could also be that my taste buds are really unsophisticated and the rum did (or should have) changed from the first sip to the last sip. Maybe I've never had a piece of complex cake.

[Kangaroo495]

Non-Cuban cigars do have construction problems. Maybe not as pervasive as we seem to think it is with Cuban cigars but NCs are not perfect.

About complexity -- I know I am the outlier here but my experience is that non-Cuban cigars are certainly capable of complexity. Saying that "NCs don't (have complexity)" is just too much of a blanket statement for me to accept. Recently I had a three year old La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Especiales that was delightfully complex with citrus and earthy and leather notes exchanging places throughout the entire smoke. I did not know what to expect from one puff to the next.

I'm not trying to make a value judgement one way or the other, just that my own experience (for what it's worth) does not bear out statements like, "Non-Cubans don't have complexity." I understand that some people will stomp their feet and raise their voice to tell me that non-Cuban cigars do not and cannot have complexity. My own experience tells me otherwise.

More than that, where does the idea come from that our cigars have to have complexity. Have to change or evolve for the length of the cigar? Why do we demand that? We don't demand it from that piece of cake. As long as it's a flavorful cake we don't condemn it because the last bite was the same as the first bite.

What about our drinks? I had a glass of RZ23 rum last night. As far as I could tell, the last sip was just as good and just the same as the first sip. Although I would say that each sip was complex. The rum in the glass did not change from one sip to another. Why do we demand that kind of change from our cigars? Ken, what about wine? Is it expected that the flavor in a glass of wine will change from the first taste of a given glass to the last taste of that same glass?

It could also be that my taste buds are really unsophisticated and the rum did (or should have) changed from the first sip to the last sip. Maybe I've never had a piece of complex cake.

I guess that's a fair point. Didn't want to make a bad generalization. As I said, I'd be really interested to try the cigars which you listed in your first post. In my experience I've had a few complex NCs. In particular Oliva V, Perdomo (various), Gurkha, and even Mombacho (thermonuclear version). But the others were seriously lacking this quality (coincidentally tried a Flor Dominicana the other night - a large torpedo maduro, was fairly average).

For me, complexity (what I meant by that was flavour change) is important, because I spend a long time smoking (up to 2 hours for each cigar). Therefore if the taste is the same the whole time, then I would get bored (no matter how good the taste is!). For other people, this might not be an issue I suppose. I tend to knock back drinks really fast, so therefore a taste change is not something I would consider important in a drink. Again, that could be different for others.

So sorry for generalizing! But still firmly believe that Cubans are better!

I'd recommend you try

Bolvar Belicosos Finos

Cuaba Distinguidos

Partagas Lusitanias

Cohiba Maduro 5 (better Genios)

Personally I'm not a fan of Partagas D 4...

All the best!