Brand prejudice, a common mistake.

[PigFish]

Seeing that Cubatabaco is a state run business and branded cigars are made with similar tobacco from the same rollers of different branded cigars it has been suggested that brand characteristics are all but lost. As a result there are many cigars that presumably are sold in lesser numbers than the more popular branded models.

I had the opportunity last year to pick up some really nice Rafael Gonzales Coronas Extra. Now I like the Rafael Gonzales brand so these cigars were not a stretch for me. But it makes me wonder a bit how many enthusiasts reach for a Rafael Gonzales cigar. Considering representative percentages of cigars sold, I can only imagine that it not a commonplace occurrence.

Perhaps next time you pick up the phone and call Lisa, or next time you find yourself in your local shop take a moment and look over the cigars that are hidden behind the uncommon band. There is good Cuban tobacco under that band. And if the cigar is priced less than the Partagas or Bolivar branded counterpart it may just be a gem that the person before you missed out on.

There is more to life than a Cohiba, a lot more. There may be more flavor in your Rafael Gonzalez Coronas Extra than in the Upmann Mag 50 you are considering as well. Pick up some singles and stamp out brand prejudice! You will be richer for the experience.

Just a little food for thought! Cheers, Piggy

[DocRKS]

Ray - your point is a valid one - I have come to look forward to the enjoyment I am getting as well as the cash I am saving from my delight in smoking various Sancho Panza vitolas.... They don't have the 'name' of their better marketed and more popular 'big brothers' - but they deliver a taste and appeal I find delicious - and that's still why I smoke these things - certainly not because of any name on the label.

Brand prejudice or Brand Loyalty was an entirely different and defensible argument when the days of cigar taste homogenization did not take place. I remember when NOTHING else tasted like a Bolivar...or there was NO DOUBT when you lit up and Upmann stick...... not the case all of the time now....

What a Pity.....

[Padrino]

Well put Piggy.

After all it's much better to be seen holding on to a cigar or doing a review with a Dunhill/Davidoff/Cohiba/EL band than something as peasantly as a Vegueros/Cuaba. It supposedly screams out to all and sunder that you are of an educated palate. Even though there is a high probability of tosser syndrome apparent...... it's probably something else we should be thanking James Suckling and Co. for, brand prejudice.

Although Piggy, I suspect to justify the prejudice there is always the excuse that the lower marcas just "don't have what it takes" to compete with the mainstream brands.

[Wiley]

I don't know, how can anyone who has a copy of the MRN book not want to try everything?

[El Presidente]

There is indeed a little bit of Tall Poppy Syndrome in cigars. It is not restricted to the "secondary" brands. Hand someone who really knows thier cigars a Monte 4 and while polite....they will be surprised. That is until they start smoking the bloody thing and then "WOW!....I forgot how good these things could be".

Had a Cuaba Divino and a Monte 4 last Friday. Both Excellent. Smithy had the Cuaba Divino and thoroughly enjoyed it. I think Punch holds some classic under the radar cigars in the Punch Petit Corona/Punch Corona and Punch Petit Punch. Sancho Panza Non Plus, Sancho Panza Molinos, Rafael Gonzalez Corona Extra, Juan Lopes Petit Corona.

Still....even amongst these there are dogs. Again, let us not generalize. Keep in mind qualtiy of production still varies month to month if not week to week.

[Ken Gargett]

my favourite example of what you say was the first SLR DC's from 2001. rob could not give them away. i would not have been inclined to buy any till i tried them. SLR certainly had a low profile back then, even more than now.

i think also that you must trust your own palate. if you try something you like, don't be put off by the fact that the 'experts' have all dismissed it. happens all the time with wine and i have no doubt also with cigars.

[anacostiakat]

There is indeed a little bit of Tall Poppy Syndrome in cigars. It is not restricted to the "secondary" brands. Hand someone who really knows thier cigars a Monte 4 and while polite....they will be surprised. That is until they start smoking the bloody thing and then "WOW!....I forgot how good these things could be".

Had a Cuaba Divino and a Monte 4 last Friday. Both Excellent. Smithy had the Cuaba Divino and thoroughly enjoyed it. I think Punch holds some classic under the radar cigars in the Punch Petit Corona/Punch Corona and Punch Petit Punch. Sancho Panza Non Plus, Sancho Panza Molinos, Rafael Gonzalez Corona Extra, Juan Lopes Petit Corona.

Still....even amongst these there are dogs. Again, let us not generalize. Keep in mind qualtiy of production s varies month to month if not week to week.

You have hit on something here. Inadvertentaly of course. It is also a vitola issue. If you don't normally smoke a particular vitola then you will obviously miss something.

Personally one of the factors I adhere to is what fits my time frame. It is a long and dangerous road trying to find the one or two that fit that time frame. . . But fun!

[bolivr]

I'm not afraid to say that along with the other 'better' brands I have I also light up a JLP Crema on occasion and am not the poorer for the experience.

I first got onto these with some ancient looking examples from a Melbourne B&M. I worked out they may have been 10 years old, dusty gnarled looking things they were. Smoked superbly to me; a straight up cuban tobacco flavor.

As a big part of the hobby is to try many smokes and appreciate them for their differences I see the JLPs as a calibration exercise. A base marker for all the others. I wouldn't smoke em if I didn't like em.

[shrink]

You're right, Piggy. Try 'em all. That's how I spent my grandchildren's inheritance on cigars.

[PigFish]

I am not proud... I even smoke Partagas Chicos. I mean if a cigar is bad I won't buy them anymore. But just because a cigar is small does not make it shallow. Just because a cigar is not a headline does not exclude it as a head turner.

There is so much hype and bullshit in the cigar community it is nauseating. I smoked a Quai D'orsay today that was nothing less than top drawer. When I think how much better it was than a certain limited VR I recently reviewed I had to gloat a little.

[Punch Joe]

First, I´m always encouraging people to try if not all, the most amount possible of our brands and their vitolas. So Brand prejudice is something that I always fight against. We have a wide array of sizes aimed to the most demanding aficionados as well as newbies. They can even find new things everyday as we continue producing things according to the market demands and the evolution of the consumers. Maybe I´m not hte one to convey all this properly since I represent a company which I´m commited to, but also a common sense guy who sees good and bad things happening for some time and when I point my finger out to the problem, then I stir up controversy and not always good for me. My suggestion: Explore amongst the brand protfolio, and you will be amazed. My good advice is that you should look over brands with little production and not high priced and finding out why is called Cuban Black tobacco flavour after all.

One thing should not be overlooked, and it´s really important. We are doing our best to support all the brands under the umbrella, but we mainly focus in ¨big names¨or Global brands since the presence in every territory is significant and the awareness is also noteworthy. Who the hell doesn´t want a PUNCH MADURO in a Churchill size, or a Sancho Perfectos, or witnessing the comeback of the Fonseca Invictos? I´m saying that´s not an easy task to revive all this taking into account that we need consumer´s feedback

Has anyone ever questioned the production of regional release and what was intended for? Well It´s our way to support brands with no so high awareness and others that are sold in few places worlwide; Por larrañaga, RA, Punch, Juan López...and it costs a lot of money.

I´m missing the Partagás Presidentes and the Habaneros. I think it´s a bad move to have them deslisted for some time.

Regarding the idea of stocking up cigars now, I would say that is never a bad idea. It´s your back up in case of unexpected situation but first of all you are building up your own treasury. Think about 4 or 5 years later, in the meantime smoke a few to see how they evolve. What I can say to my friends overseas that the hurricanes as I witnessed myself did a lot of damage in the curing barns not the leaf stored which was damaged but easily recovered though different quality. I´m talking about top qulity leaves that were downgraded to second quality because of the exposure to moist and rain. I know most of you are aware of How much tobacco passed through this but the rest 80 % was safe not to mention the stock we have in our warehouses. One thing I consider we were fortunate enough is that the hurricanes hit the Island at the beginning of the tobacco season when anything was planted out to the soil. So we were safe. I would love to have you all visiting the Vuelta Abajo region nowadays. Vegueros are growing the best leaves in years, mark my words, we will have tobacco to stock over 30% compared to last harvest, maybe more ;-). This is a good-good harvest, mates.

P.D: I also miss the San Luis Rey Double Corona...heard that Ken Gargett? Punch Joe

[bassman]

I've been nsmoking long enough to know what I like. For example, I've smoked the RG & Sancho Panza line & they just don't do it for me. Punch is the oddest brand for me. Really like PC del Punch, Black Prince, SS#1 & the DCs. Don't care for the others at all. Even my favorite brands can change. SLR Serie A was my favorite cigar for a long time. Still love the 02s & 03s, but the 06s have been sadly disappointing.

Purely a matter of personal taste.

And, I wish I knew about this forum when Rob couldn't give away 01 SLR DCs. I surely would have bought all I could afford- a classic cigar.

[Ginseng]

Brilliant and insightful posts in this thread. Wonderful food for thought, Jose! I'm really heartened to hear that the tobacco stream has survived the storms for the most part. This has been something that Cuba (and the Caribbean) has dealt with forever, and luck and preparation are both essential.

I agree with Bassman insofar as the Rafael Gonzalez and Sancho Panza. I've tried across their ranges and they don't suit my taste. How lucky I am that there are so many other goodies to choose from!

Wilkey

[PigFish]

Admittedly Sancho Panza is not my bag of tricks either. But the point is I have smoked most of the current models. Whether or not I like the cigar is not the important thing; it is the experience of knowing something about them that I am talking about. Now to me the RG line has always been a sleeper. These are top notch cigars in a white box with an ugly band. Everything else about them says Cuba's finest! Try some again Wilkey, you won't be sorry. If need be I will send you a couple to get you started!!! -:Piggy

[Van55]

I could hardly agree more.

My stance in the "off marcas" is well known, I think. A friend gave me a couple of Quai D'Orsay to try, and I was stunned at how good they were on my palate. I had dismissed them as "too mild" based on what I had read on the boards. Fonseca #1 are, to me, one of the best value Cuban cigars available. The Juan Lopez line is excpeptional in my palate.

Of course, I love my Bolivars, Partagas as well, but dismissing other marcas on lack of reputation is, in my view, a mistake.

[genevapics]

I am in agreement with what Van55 stated. I too enjoy the Juan Lopez and Quai DÓrsay brands. I find both marcas perfect for spring/summer smoking. I have not tried a Fonseca, but will do so in the future.

In addition, anacostiakat made a good point with regards to vitola: if it is not a size that you normally smoke, then you very well might miss a treasure.

[Mel]

Listen to you all raving about off brand weak-assed cigars. In truth I had a great SP Beliciso the other night and thought it was of the highest quality. The only cigar that I can't appreciate is the Punch Churchill but I'll give all the rest a fair go.

[PigFish]

Listen to you all raving about off brand weak-assed cigars. In truth I had a great SP Beliciso the other night and thought it was of the highest quality. The only cigar that I can't appreciate is the Punch Churchill but I'll give all the rest a fair go.

...Jesus, they will let anyone dig in this sandbox!

[MrEd]

Van had suggested to me to buy a bunch of singles and try thr secondary brands. I did and glad I did. Some of the best smokes I have had. Now without prejudging I can buy some smokes I never would have given a second thought. SP non plus, who would have thought.

[gwags]

GREAT Posts!! As a newb to the cubans I have admittedly gotten off track as to how I started in this hobby with the rest of the world's cigars .... Try everything you can get your hands on .. at least once. If nothing else, I developed what I liked and disliked and am often surprised. With all the reviews and info available it's tuff not to have a pre-conceived notion on how the smoke is gong to be without lighting it up that I often find myseld passing over sticks I know nothing about.

[El Presidente]

Van had suggested to me to buy a bunch of singles and try thr secondary brands. I did and glad I did. Some of the best smokes I have had. Now without prejudging I can buy some smokes I never would have given a second thought. SP non plus, who would have thought.

It is one of the beauies of singles purchases but I would advise to purchase fewer in breadth and two of each. You can really only get a firm line on a cigar if you try it a few times.

[Van55]

It is one of the beauies of singles purchases but I would advise to purchase fewer in breadth and two of each. You can really only get a firm line on a cigar if you try it a few times.

Indeed. Buy one to smoke and one to have of each single. And don't judge an entire line on the basis of only a few examples.

[ksblazer]

As mentioned this is a great topic to bring up.

In the last year or so. I've been buying singles and reading reviews about cigars in cirtain size ranges that I may like. As I got in a rut of just smoking the same cigars every 2nd or 3rd time out. I'm glad I did as I have discovered some new favorites that get rarely mentioned. So far I really liked the Rafeal Gonzales line. The Petite coronas and the Lonsdales are very tasty. I also like Saint Louis Rey cigars particulary the DC's, PC's and Coronas. Tried an El Rey Del Mundo Lonsdale that I liked so much, I purchased a box. Last Saturday I smoked a Monte #1 that impressed me as well. Originally I didn't think I would like a majority of these cigars, but I'm glad I gave them a try. As mentioned I was originally turned off by some peoples reviews as they were consided "too mild" but I now realize that I don't mind a milder cigar as long as it has good flavor.

[broozer]

i've made it a practice to NEVER not try a cigar even if everyone says it's gonna suck. case in point: i'd never tried a vegueros as of a few years ago and i put out a couple of threads on various boards so that i could trade for some of them. i ended up with about 12 #2's and a box of #1's. as it turns out i love the entire line (even though it took another year or so to find any of the two smaller ones). my collection now contains about 4 boxes of #1's, a box of #2's, at least 8 boxes of marevas and two boxes of seoanes.

like the old saying says: "don't knock it til you try it".

bruce

[Padrino]

i've made it a practice to NEVER not try a cigar even if everyone says it's gonna suck. case in point: i'd never tried a vegueros as of a few years ago and i put out a couple of threads on various boards so that i could trade for some of them. i ended up with about 12 #2's and a box of #1's. as it turns out i love the entire line (even though it took another year or so to find any of the two smaller ones). my collection now contains about 4 boxes of #1's, a box of #2's, at least 8 boxes of marevas and two boxes of seoanes.

like the old saying says: "don't knock it til you try it".

bruce

My first experience with Vegueros was at the Madrid Duty free five years ago. It was the last flight of the evening and walked into the duty free only to find the walk-in humidor almost empty,except for quite a few boxes of Vegueros #1's. I was about to walk out when I decided "why the hell not". It was one of the best buys i've ever made, they all had beautifully dark wrappers and the flavors were this amazing grassy/burnt sugar cane.......fortunately after that buy I tried every single brand/vitola I could get my hands on.

Being a Vegueros/Sancho Panza fan i'm disappointed to say the least that the bean counters at Habanos SA have taken over and seem to be intent on pulling any brand that does not fill up the books.