Tyson vs. Jake Paul

[Boxer31]

At least the UFC is good tonight - can’t believe Chandler almost pulled that out being down like that. Waiting on the main fight now. Had to pay for this lol. But worth it. 

Next big one - Fury v Usyk in a few weeks.
 

[westg]

4 hours ago, Boxer31 said:

At least the UFC is good tonight - can’t believe Chandler almost pulled that out being down like that. Waiting on the main fight now. Had to pay for this lol. But worth it. 

Next big one - Fury v Usyk in a few weeks.

Can't wait for that. Can't recall ever watching a fight and not going for one particular fighter. I really like them both. So I hope Fury can square it up on this one. And that will 💯 % guarantee a third one.

 

 

[Boss Hog]

Gotta feel for Mike though, despite the pay out.

For him to deliver such a cringeworthy performance like that.

Poor guy looked old and tired.

The constant gnawing of his left glove. CTE ain’t no joke folks.

To think that this is what many of us will remember him by. Sad, quite frankly.

Personally, I would rather remember him as the wedding singer in The Hangover Part II. 😂

[Ford2112]

He will always be Iron Mike to me, Champ and an absolute menace coming up. What he did to Marvis Frazier was more like a crime scene, lol.

[VeguerosMAN]

58 minutes ago, Ford2112 said:

He will always be Iron Mike to me, Champ and an absolute menace coming up. What he did to Marvis Frazier was more like a crime scene, lol.

 

[Ken Gargett]

years ago, i used to be a boxing fanatic. went to a heap of the fights at the old commonwealth games in Brizzy, and all the finals. watched any fight that was going. of course, they were the days of some great fighters (who did not need to be in cages). i am old enough to remember when Tyson first arrived on the scene. amazing stuff. these days, zero interest. simply don't trust the system, the admin, the promoters or the fighters. and when you see something like this authorised, the people on whatever board did that should be jailed. a 58 year old? how does fighting not do him irreparable harm. as one of us said above, a farce. 

one thing that might be of interest, i once asked Aussie Joe Bugner, who would win a fight between Ali and Tyson, both at their peak. joe was an entertaining guy. he fought Ali twice and both went the distance. i think he is the only bloke to fight Ali twice without being knocked down. he also went the distance against Joe Frazier, all this when these guys were serious boxers, so he was no mug. not sure if he ever fought Tyson. his view was that Tyson would not have laid a glove on Ali. too quick. and the way Ali could hit while in reverse (a skill not many master, certainly not to the extent he did), meant that he would have put Tyson down. 

[VeguerosMAN]

9 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

years ago, i used to be a boxing fanatic. went to a heap of the fights at the old commonwealth games in Brizzy, and all the finals. watched any fight that was going. of course, they were the days of some great fighters (who did not need to be in cages). i am old enough to remember when Tyson first arrived on the scene. amazing stuff. these days, zero interest. simply don't trust the system, the admin, the promoters or the fighters. and when you see something like this authorised, the people on whatever board did that should be jailed. a 58 year old? how does fighting not do him irreparable harm. as one of us said above, a farce. 

one thing that might be of interest, i once asked Aussie Joe Bugner, who would win a fight between Ali and Tyson, both at their peak. joe was an entertaining guy. he fought Ali twice and both went the distance. i think he is the only bloke to fight Ali twice without being knocked down. he also went the distance against Joe Frazier, all this when these guys were serious boxers, so he was no mug. not sure if he ever fought Tyson. his view was that Tyson would not have laid a glove on Ali. too quick. and the way Ali could hit while in reverse (a skill not many master, certainly not to the extent he did), meant that he would have put Tyson down. 

In Tyson's prime there is no way Ali could beat him imo. I don't see Ali making it to the 2nd round.

[Ken Gargett]

52 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

In Tyson's prime there is no way Ali could beat him imo. I don't see Ali making it to the 2nd round.

like all cross-era sports debates, we'll never know and never get unanimous agreement, as much fun as they are to discuss, but i think you are doing Ali a huge disservice (of course, this might depend on where we all sit in terms of years past but i would be surprised if many from Ali's generation - i was still a kid when the frazier and foreman fights took place - would agree with you. might be wrong). 

Tyson was obviously a fearsome talent but whereas Ali is very often referred to as the Greatest (and not just by himself), you don't often hear that about Tyson. a great, sure, but not the greatest. worth remembering (and i am going on docos, books, articles etc here as too young) that Ali was supposed to have no chance against sonny liston and liston had some similarities with Tyson - immense power, nasty, unstoppable etc. Ali took him out twice. that fight against foreman - again, foreman was terrifying, much like Tyson. Ali beat him. and literally no one gave him a chance. plus, he did it through his toughness, which no one ever thought possible. 

Ali had incredible speed, especially for a heavyweight. no one before or since has matched that. he had serious power himself and he was, despite all the i'm so pretty crap, as tough as anyone. the beatings he took from frazier, foreman and others were appalling. the loss to ken Norton in their first fight, Norton broke his jaw in the second round and Ali still managed to last the entire fight and lose on a split decision. Ali is considered to have a better chin than Tyson, who was knocked out around half a dozen times. 

finally, Tyson was a brilliant fighter at his peak and i do not want to in any way diminish that, but buster douglas. seriously? you cannot get done by buster douglas at your peak and expect to be considered as someone capable beating Ali. 

i also think someone who has fought them probably has way more idea than any of us. when i spoke to joe some years ago, bugner laughed at the idea of comparing them. he really did believe that Tyson would not lay a glove on Ali. i have no idea if it would be that one-sided but i do think Ali would beat him 99 out of 100. 

as for being knocked out in the first round (i assume that you are suggesting that), i can't see it. in over 60 fights, he lost one by knockout - the larry holmes fight when he was almost forty and in decline. even then, he made it through 11 rounds. only one. no one ever knocked him out inside ten rounds - to believe Tyson would do it in one is a massive stretch. and if you don't get Ali early, he seemed to get better and better while Tyson had to win early or he came back to the pack in the later rounds. 

i never saw ernie shaver fight but he is considered generally to be the hardest puncher of all time - Tyson, foreman, liston, wilder (i know nothing about him), Marciano the next group - in whatever order you like. Ali fought shaver, liston (twice) and foreman and none of them could knock him down even once, let alone beat him. Ali unquestionably fought better fighters than Tyson over his career. that is not to criticise Tyson as you can only fight what was around but Ali's was a golden era for boxing. 

and definitely finally (fun to think about these things), Tyson has said that he would not have beaten Ali. sure, maybe being polite (Tyson?) but i'm happy to take him at his word. anyway, always happy to hear a contrary argument. 

[SCgarman]

Ultimately there were no losers here. They both walked away 10's of millions of dollars richer for 16 minutes in the ring. Tell me what other "job" is that lucrative! None of us here likely would have that type of chance for this type of "cash cow".

[BrightonCorgi]

Went biking with my pro boxer friend yesterday and he thought it was a bit "staged" FWIW.

[Li Bai]

8 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Went biking with my pro boxer friend yesterday and he thought it was a bit "staged" FWIW.

Didn't we all 🤔

25 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

like all cross-era sports debates, we'll never know and never get unanimous agreement, as much fun as they are to discuss

Agreed, it's pointless, like comparing Pelé and Messi... The way Ali moved for an heavy-weight was unbelievable though and I think Tyson was sincere when he said Ali would have beaten him...

[CaptainQuintero]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Went biking with my pro boxer friend yesterday and he thought it was a bit "staged" FWIW.

 To my eyes there were points, especially in the first few rounds where Tyson visibly held back from following up with a knockout attempt after working an opening. Whether it's true about the rumours that there was no payday if the match didn't go the full distance, I don't know. I guess it's just nice that he wasn't hurt and he kinda redeemed himself from the last few exhibitions he did after retiring and he seems to have found his peace 

[VeguerosMAN]

4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

like all cross-era sports debates, we'll never know and never get unanimous agreement, as much fun as they are to discuss, but i think you are doing Ali a huge disservice (of course, this might depend on where we all sit in terms of years past but i would be surprised if many from Ali's generation - i was still a kid when the frazier and foreman fights took place - would agree with you. might be wrong). 

Tyson was obviously a fearsome talent but whereas Ali is very often referred to as the Greatest (and not just by himself), you don't often hear that about Tyson. a great, sure, but not the greatest. worth remembering (and i am going on docos, books, articles etc here as too young) that Ali was supposed to have no chance against sonny liston and liston had some similarities with Tyson - immense power, nasty, unstoppable etc. Ali took him out twice. that fight against foreman - again, foreman was terrifying, much like Tyson. Ali beat him. and literally no one gave him a chance. plus, he did it through his toughness, which no one ever thought possible. 

Ali had incredible speed, especially for a heavyweight. no one before or since has matched that. he had serious power himself and he was, despite all the i'm so pretty crap, as tough as anyone. the beatings he took from frazier, foreman and others were appalling. the loss to ken Norton in their first fight, Norton broke his jaw in the second round and Ali still managed to last the entire fight and lose on a split decision. Ali is considered to have a better chin than Tyson, who was knocked out around half a dozen times. 

finally, Tyson was a brilliant fighter at his peak and i do not want to in any way diminish that, but buster douglas. seriously? you cannot get done by buster douglas at your peak and expect to be considered as someone capable beating Ali. 

i also think someone who has fought them probably has way more idea than any of us. when i spoke to joe some years ago, bugner laughed at the idea of comparing them. he really did believe that Tyson would not lay a glove on Ali. i have no idea if it would be that one-sided but i do think Ali would beat him 99 out of 100. 

as for being knocked out in the first round (i assume that you are suggesting that), i can't see it. in over 60 fights, he lost one by knockout - the larry holmes fight when he was almost forty and in decline. even then, he made it through 11 rounds. only one. no one ever knocked him out inside ten rounds - to believe Tyson would do it in one is a massive stretch. and if you don't get Ali early, he seemed to get better and better while Tyson had to win early or he came back to the pack in the later rounds. 

i never saw ernie shaver fight but he is considered generally to be the hardest puncher of all time - Tyson, foreman, liston, wilder (i know nothing about him), Marciano the next group - in whatever order you like. Ali fought shaver, liston (twice) and foreman and none of them could knock him down even once, let alone beat him. Ali unquestionably fought better fighters than Tyson over his career. that is not to criticise Tyson as you can only fight what was around but Ali's was a golden era for boxing. 

and definitely finally (fun to think about these things), Tyson has said that he would not have beaten Ali. sure, maybe being polite (Tyson?) but i'm happy to take him at his word. anyway, always happy to hear a contrary argument. 

Many consider Sonny Liston fight was rigged, and Tyson was out of the game for a while due to rape charges when he fought Douglas. I still think Ali would get knocked out cold by 20 year old peak Tyson.

3 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

 To my eyes there were points, especially in the first few rounds where Tyson visibly held back from following up with a knockout attempt after working an opening. Wether it's true about the rumours that there was no payday if the match didn't go the full distance, I don't know. I guess it's just nice that he wasn't hurt and he kinda redeemed himself from the last few exhibitions he did after retiring and he seems to have found his peace 

I believe Tyson wanted to knock Jack out in the first round and we saw a glimpse of Old Mike for the first 20 seconds of the fight. After that, Tyson was gassed out and his legs were wobbly.

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, VeguerosMAN said:

I believe Tyson wanted to knock Jack out in the first round and we saw a glimpse of Old Mike for the first 20 seconds of the fight.  After that, Tyson was gassed out and his legs were wobbly.

Imagine if they were 3 minute rounds?

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Imagine if they were 3 minute rounds?

do we not have three minute rounds any more? shows how closely i follow it these days. how long are they? 

 

9 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Many consider Sonny Liston fight was rigged, and Tyson was out of the game for a while due to rape charges when he fought Douglas. I still think Ali would get knocked out cold by 20 year old peak Tyson.

having seen those early Tyson fights, i can understand that but i would still put my money on Ali and give odds, for the reasons given. but as LB says, it is like comparing pele and messi and we'll never know (even though it is clearly pele). 

but a couple of things. Tyson fought douglas in 1990. he was convicted of rape in 1992. can't use that as an excuse. Tyson was out for three years, although not completely sure it was at his peak - he had been beaten by douglas. Ali was out closer to five years, when he really was at his peak. 

i know some say possibly that the liston fights were rigged (the second one seems the more likely if either were) but there has never been the slightest bit of creditable evidence to support that. not a shred other than conspiracy theories and speculation. after all this time, surely something would have emerged. of course, even if one chooses to believe that, that does not explain the other 60 fights and the battles with frazier and foreman and so on. 

we will never know but to me, the overwhelming evidence suggests that Ali would win, every time. if foreman, frazier, liston, Norton and so many more could not do it, i cannot see Tyson, when effectively still a kid knocking him out. 

[westg]

For those that have not watched the documentary When we were Kings , I urge you to take a look. It demonstrates how far ahead of his time he was . Not only in boxing but in life as well. And by that I don't mean that senseless bandwagon he was hinged to . He was a larger than life human and set an example of what greatness truly is. 

Now on that particular day ( The Rumble in the Jungle ) that was by no means the best version of Casius Clay physically .But  In my opinion as a boxer it was his best day by far. On that day he shook up the world . He gave people hope he gave people belief.  His comment after the fight ..why did I win ...because no one thought I could. Loved it. 

Now Tyson's best day for me was when he beat and unbeaten never knocked down Micheal Spinks with relative ease  and unified the title

Now Tyson's first 25 fights were just horrifying 25 wins 23 by knock out and 22 of those in the first round. 

So my question is if you could take a version of each on thier best day who would win. I would go with Mohammed. 

Furthermore I don't think any of the current heavyweights in the last 10 to 15 would come close. To either of them .

Tapped out on the treadmill so excuse the bouncy grammar 

 

[VeguerosMAN]

I just don't think Ali could have taken Tyson's punches in his prime, but Tyson could have taken Ali punches. Tyson's 'Peek-a -Boo' style would be too much for Ali to handle. But then again we will never know

[Ken Gargett]

39 minutes ago, westg said:

For those that have not watched the documentary When we were Kings , I urge you to take a look. It demonstrates how far ahead of his time he was . Not only in boxing but in life as well. And by that I don't mean that senseless bandwagon he was hinged to . He was a larger than life human and set an example of what greatness truly is. 

Now on that particular day ( The Rumble in the Jungle ) that was by no means the best version of Casius Clay physically .But  In my opinion as a boxer it was his best day by far. On that day he shook up the world . He gave people hope he gave people belief.  His comment after the fight ..why did I win ...because no one thought I could. Loved it. 

Now Tyson's best day for me was when he beat and unbeaten never knocked down Micheal Spinks with relative ease  and unified the title

Now Tyson's first 25 fights were just horrifying 25 wins 23 by knock out and 22 of those in the first round. 

So my question is if you could take a version of each on thier best day who would win. I would go with Mohammed. 

Furthermore I don't think any of the current heavyweights in the last 10 to 15 would come close. To either of them .

Tapped out on the treadmill so excuse the bouncy grammar 

 

westie, one of the great docos. i was watching it, for about the fifth time, on the evening when 9/11 hit. so it is forever embedded in my mind. 

31 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

I just don't think Ali could have taken Tyson's punches in his prime, but Tyson could have taken Ali punches. Tyson's 'Peek-a -Boo' style would be too much for Ali to handle. But then again we will never know

absolutely, we will never know. this must be quick as lunch awaits. my argument against this is that he took punches from guys who could punch as hard as tyson and did not go down. so i don't see why he would against Tyson. i'd suggest the fight against foreman as a blueprint. Ali took a fearful battering and never went down and he wore foreman down and beat him. can't see why Tyson would last better than foreman.

all from me for now. good fun thinking about those great fights.

[VeguerosMAN]

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

absolutely, we will never know. this must be quick as lunch awaits. my argument against this is that he took punches from guys who could punch as hard as tyson and did not go down. so i don't see why he would against Tyson. i'd suggest the fight against foreman as a blueprint. Ali took a fearful battering and never went down and he wore foreman down and beat him. can't see why Tyson would last better than foreman.

all from me for now. good fun thinking about those great fights.

 

Tyson moved like a lightweight and his punches were faster and sharper than Foreman.  Ali's Rope a dope tactics wouldn't work against Tyson. 

[Boxer31]

On 11/17/2024 at 7:23 PM, westg said:

Can't wait for that. Can't recall ever watching a fight and not going for one particular fighter. I really like them both. So I hope Fury can square it up on this one. And that will 💯 % guarantee a third one.

 

 

I knew Usyk was great boxer but thought he was in trouble when Dubois knocked him down and they called a low blow (which gave home time to recover) and then Usyk wore him down. So was surprised to see him beat Fury in that manner. Suspect fury might not have trained as he should have. Don’t think that will be case this time around. I still can’t believe he got up off the canvas against Wilder, he was lights out and then came to and rest is history. 

When bored in summer, there's nothing like going back and watching the great matches after lighting up a cigar on deck. Boxing and cigars just go together. Of course not when we were training. 

[westg]

12 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Tyson moved like a lightweight and his punches were faster and sharper than Foreman.  Ali's Rope a dope tactics wouldn't work against Tyson. 

Ha I know...I know...it was actually hard for me to tap that out. That said, I do think Ali would find a way. Somehow.  

[Boxer31]

2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

do we not have three minute rounds any more? shows how closely i follow it these days. how long are they? 

 

having seen those early Tyson fights, i can understand that but i would still put my money on Ali and give odds, for the reasons given. but as LB says, it is like comparing pele and messi and we'll never know (even though it is clearly pele). 

but a couple of things. Tyson fought douglas in 1990. he was convicted of rape in 1992. can't use that as an excuse. Tyson was out for three years, although not completely sure it was at his peak - he had been beaten by douglas. Ali was out closer to five years, when he really was at his peak. 

i know some say possibly that the liston fights were rigged (the second one seems the more likely if either were) but there has never been the slightest bit of creditable evidence to support that. not a shred other than conspiracy theories and speculation. after all this time, surely something would have emerged. of course, even if one chooses to believe that, that does not explain the other 60 fights and the battles with frazier and foreman and so on. 

we will never know but to me, the overwhelming evidence suggests that Ali would win, every time. if foreman, frazier, liston, Norton and so many more could not do it, i cannot see Tyson, when effectively still a kid knocking him out. 

I agree - Ali was probably the greatest  - power speed, footwork (not the showboating - but he had a knack for that as well).

[VeguerosMAN]

19 hours ago, Boxer31 said:

I agree - Ali was probably the greatest  - power speed, footwork (not the showboating - but he had a knack for that as well).

Many Boxing aficionados would argue that Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest.

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Many Boxing aficionados would argue that Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest

If you're a Masshole; it's Rocky Mariano or Marvin Hagler.

Marvelous Marvin ran by my bus stop a few times, taped up. He used to stay at the Sea Crest which was a mile from my house.

[VeguerosMAN]

Happy International men's day fellas! I have the entire lounge to myself...and am watching the first Wilder and Fury fight. Wilder won that fight. It was impressive that Fury got knocked out twice and was able to recover. It seems like the judges gave him points for show boating and his heroic effort to get up from that 2nd knock out