San Cristobal 20th LCDH

[Eric05]

Question guys. I been looking through a couple of boxes of San cristobal LCDH 20th anni. The treasure chest. I’ve run multiple box code serial codes and they all come as the Cuba regional San cristobal. Has anyone come across this too? 

[Bijan]

Not this one but all RyJ Petit Royale codes come up as wide Churchill Reserva or gran Reserva or whatever.

[NSXCIGAR]

Not that unusual to have an odd code. Quite frankly I'm shocked the serial database is as accurate as it is.

Personally, I really don't put much value in the serials. Mostly a gimmick IMO. Can't say I've ever had the urge to check one. 

[Corylax18]

8 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Personally, I really don't put much value in the serials.

Agreed. Multiples of the same Serial # are a huge red flag, otherwise, they aren't a great indicator on there own. 

[KCCubano]

I maybe check one or two a year...If I am extremely bored or no sports on TV. I believe a PL came up as a different PL vitola once. Maybe it was PLPC but showed Picadore. 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 10/1/2021 at 12:45 PM, Corylax18 said:

Multiples of the same Serial # are a huge red flag, otherwise, they aren't a great indicator on there own.

And how would you even know that unless you're physically looking at vendor stock? If your only reference is a single box, no way to know that. 

It's so easy to duplicate a bar code I feel it possibly does more harm than good with the potential for naive folks relying on something for authenticity that they really shouldn't be.

[ATGroom]

Can confirm - I photographed a treasure chest humi on the shelf in an LCDH earlier in the year. Serial is 000048802071 which scans as La Cabana.

On 10/2/2021 at 5:33 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

Not that unusual to have an odd code.

I think we may have been over this before, but would be interested to hear any examples of this.

I routinely check any serials that I come across, and keep my own database for various purposes, which has a few hundred entries covering almost all of the regular production and good number specials.

Aside from the above, the examples I know of that scan wrong are:

-Romeo Petit Royales in dress boxes which scan as Wide Churchills GR (the Royales in tubes scan fine)

-PL Galanes which scan as PL Gran Robusto Regional

In all cases, every box I know of scans wrong even when produced years apart, indicating that the issue is in their database, not in the application of the seals. I.e., when they scan in a batch of seals, they choose "Romeo Petit Royales" in their software and do everything correctly, but when the original data behind it was created, the Petit Royales Entry was wrong and is linked to the Wide Churchills GR.

In theory I think they could just fix their database, and every Petit Royales ever produced would start scanning correctly.

The other potential failure would be if when they went to scan a single batch of seals, they made a mistake and chose the wrong cigar in their software. In this case, I would expect that only a single run of consecutive serial numbers would scan wrong. If this happens, I have never seen it. It's kind of surprising that it doesn't happen - in fact, I am sure that it must happen to some extent. Obviously I have a tiny sample of boxes compared to the whole production, but I do have a decent list from a wide range of dates and sources, and I do keep an eye out for threads like this which effectively increases my sample size by a huge multiple. I can only infer that this kind of failure happens in only a tiny percentage of boxes, 1/1000 or lower.

Agree that it is easy for fakers to dupe a serial number from a legit box and put it on a fake box - they just need to have the patience to find a legit number for each vitola they produce, and to print different seals for them all. That said, I have never seen a provably fake box with a legit serial for the correct box. I have seen plenty with a legit serial for an incorrect box. 

So, basically, I think the serial verification is a decently effective method for authentication.

When the serials are wrong on HSAs end, they are wrong in a repeatable way that can be double checked.

The fakers could fake them, but for whatever reason they can't be bothered.

[Puros Y Vino]

I could have sworn they have a process where they re-apply new seals to boxes that have been opened and rejected by customers and that they have to send a report of the Serial# back to Habanos HQ to update the box.  I suspect this isn't done often.  And it explains why you see some boxes, in Havana especially with double/triple warranty seals.

[ATGroom]

3 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

I could have sworn they have a process where they re-apply new seals to boxes that have been opened and rejected by customers and that they have to send a report of the Serial# back to Habanos HQ to update the box.  I suspect this isn't done often.  And it explains why you see some boxes, in Havana especially with double/triple warranty seals.

This happens in Cuba at the LCDHs, boxes that are opened and found to be defective for whatever reason can be sent back into the system where the bad cigars are replaced, and new seals are applied. In that case they have a new barcode. If you can still read the old barcode, then both should check out for the same box in the verification system.

As far as I know, there is no process for anyone to apply Cuban warrantee seals outside of Cuba.

According to Phoenicia, when they have stock that is rejected by their QC process it is destroyed in Cyprus under supervision of their border control while still in bond. They report it to HSA who give them a refund for the stock.

Seems very wasteful. Not sure if all distributors do it this way or if it is a quirk of Cypriot tobacco import laws. If there are distributors that send stock back to Havana, then I guess this could be another way that boxes make it back into the system for repair and new seals.

[Corylax18]

On 10/2/2021 at 3:54 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

you're physically looking at vendor stock?

Yes, that's pretty much the only way you would know, unless a vendor sent you a list that contained duplicates. (which would be pretty dumb) Ive seen several posts here where people have seen this in B&M's, one very recently. Its a pretty glaring mistake, but obviously doesn't get caught in every retail channel. 

I hadn't heard about "rejected" boxes being returned by Havana LCDHs. Based on what I've seen shopping in Havana, this is probably a very busy program. I thought they just sold the opened/rejected boxes as singles. Haha.