Any Red Flags?

[El Presidente]

 

 

 

 

Castro (Fidel) Original vintage box of Cohiba Lanceros cigars signed by Fidel Castro in blue ink, minor handling wear to corners, cigars included, 210 x 205 x 45mm. ***Provenance: the box was presented by Castro to the vendor in December 2004 in the framework of a dinner to which he was invited after a journalistic coverage on the island.

 

 

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

No, but a big gold flag.

Hey, even Fidel gets scammed.

[Fosgate]

What govt official signs anything in blue ink?

[BrightonCorgi]

Is that style of box manufactured that recent?  I'd think Castro would've signed it inside the box?  Bands are similar for '04, no?

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Is that style of box manufactured that recent?  I'd think Castro would've signed it inside the box?  Bands are similar for '04, no?

Box is pre-82. Bands are 04-14. Pre-82 would have also been in cello. 

I've also seen Fidel-signed boxes and I've never seen a signature anywhere but on the outside.

9 hours ago, Fosgate said:

What govt official signs anything in blue ink?

In Cuba I'm sure any pen that works is good to go. Pink ink wouldn't surprise me.

Not saying that's a genuine signature.

[Smatthews607]

It say legitimate right on the label. Why would anyone doubt its authenticity?

[MrBirdman]

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I've also seen Fidel-signed boxes and I've never seen a signature anywhere but on the outside

I have seen at least one legit box signed on the inside from Davidoff of London. 

[BrightonCorgi]

40 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

I have seen at least one legit box signed on the inside from Davidoff of London. 

When I give out boxes or got boxes as gifts they were always signed on the inside as well.

[nKostyan]

Too horribly rolled and wrapped. The wrapper is rolled in different directions. Fidel would be ashamed to give such a gift.
As I was taught at the construction university - a properly designed structure should look beautiful.

[Puros Y Vino]

16 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Is that style of box manufactured that recent?  I'd think Castro would've signed it inside the box?  Bands are similar for '04, no?

Saw a stack of these at El Laguito back in 2012, so I'd say yes.

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

When I give out boxes or got boxes as gifts they were always signed on the inside as well.

Looks like he's signed both inside and outside over the years.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, PurosyVino said:

Saw a stack of these at El Laguito back in 2012, so I'd say yes.

Whoa, does anyone know the story with these?

[Puros Y Vino]

23 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Whoa, does anyone know the story with these?

I think they still make them as diplomatic gifts. In the room with these boxes were two ladies packing CCE's with King of Spain bands.  I didn't get a good picture sadly.   

[ATGroom]

4 hours ago, PurosyVino said:

I think they still make them as diplomatic gifts. In the room with these boxes were two ladies packing CCE's with King of Spain bands.  I didn't get a good picture sadly.   

Yeah, they package diplo gifts in the old style, at least as recently as about 2015, presumably still today. Cigars are just regular production as far as I know. From what I've heard, they seem to be a fairly casual level of diplo gift where various government officials have a few of these on hand and might hand them out to visiting dignitaries of all forms. Story checks out as far as this goes: at an event there were some around, Castro grabbed one, signed it, and gave it to a journalist.

This is as opposed to the other kind of diplo gift you hear about, which are elaborate humidors with vanity bands that might go to presidents and exceptionally dignified dignitaries and obviously take a bit more preparation and are not just "on hand."

You see a lot of fakes of this box design, although usually masquerading as an old box. Usual big tell is miss-alignment and very crappy printing on the filete, which they never seem to be able to get right, along with poor printing elsewhere (bad printing on the leaf, uneven white around the head, weird alignment on the various text etc).

As far as that stuff goes this looks to be all correct.

As to whether the box has been refilled or is some other kind of high end fake, or if the box is real and the signature is fake etc etc... who can say. Something like a photo of Castro presenting the signed box to the seller would be nice if you're going to pay top dollar for these.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, ATGroom said:

As to whether the box has been refilled or is some other kind of high end fake, or if the box is real and the signature is fake etc etc... who can say. Something like a photo of Castro presenting the signed box to the seller would be nice if you're going to pay top dollar for these.

So it could be legit. I actually wasn't aware of diplomatic gift boxes being in the old style. Not sure how I wasn't, but I wasn't. 

That being the case, one would certainly need provenance if buying. Seems like something that could be easily faked, and the cigars are standard Lanceros, so you're really paying for an autograph and a retro box which isn't super rare. 

[NSXCIGAR]

51 minutes ago, Psiman said:

I thought the really old ones didn't have Habana Cuba on the bands

If they were made from 04-14 then they would be standard band D.