Jorge Padron talks about dark and oily wrappers.

[djrey]

Pete Johnson of Tatuaje, who I have met a few times and think highly of as a person and cigar blender has claimed numerous times there is way too much bullshit in the NC world. If I recall correctly he compared the cigar world to the Bordeaux wine where there are all kinds of rules of what you can and cant do with the blends in order to claim the appellation designation. With NC cigars it is the wild west. Anyone can do anything. In a way that is good as it can let creative juices flow and you can get some cool new products (Look at Super Tuscan's going against the DOC). However its a two way street. You get people pushing all kinds of crap to get a leg up in the game, such as flavorings, dyes whatever. 

I fall into the camp that a cigar should be natural fermented leaf, blended and rolled up. I think the addition of flavors or dyes is nasty and any reputable person should not produce them. But, laissez faire, just be sure to be open with the product and what it contains. Also please don't smoke the sh*t near me. Haha. 

And since we are discussing NC marketing. The NC seriously has got to quite crapping all over Cuba one day saying they haven't been good since the 80's and they use under fermented leaf and plugged stick blah blah. The very next day they then release a new cigar calling it cubanesque! 

[Fosgate]

Somewhere on the planet there is a NC site discussing simalar only in reverse of NC's vs. CC's.

I'm in favor of smoking what you like and like what you smoke. 

Being in the agriculture industry I could care less about organic vs so called "chemical" fertilizer. I would worry more about GMO, insecticides and herbicides used. Monsanto just settled a $400m lawsuit on their herbicide prduct called Dicamba back in June 2020 in which is was intended for use on it's Roundup ready soybeans. Farmers accross the US were finding crop damage in mass due to its use and drifting onto their fields from a treated field sometimes hundreds of yards away. Far outside the norm of standard chemical drift. Neighbors turned on each other, Monsanto tried to blame contaminated sprayers, use of illegal product etc. When I have friends that have Celiac Disease, others with digestive issues with plants that we never saw before it has me cautious about how much we have changed plants through GMO, pesticides and herbicides. 

Things like raw nitrogen, potassium, anhydrus ammonia I have been in use for a very long time. 

For those wondering where much of how the fertilizer in use around the globe is harvested. 

 

[Enduin]

Having been on the NC side years back I can 100% confirm that similar threads were not uncommon. I can distinctly remember on the CA forum a guy who supposedly had a lot of "inside knowledge" and visited Cuba often talking about how Cubans started "doctoring" cigars in order to make them ready to smoke immediately and not need any age, and that resulted in all the marcas becoming bland and tasting all the same. The reactions pretty much mirrored what we saw in this thread: some disagreed, some were skeptical and wanted more than just hearsay to believe the claims, some jumped on the "cuban cigars are overpriced garbage" bandwagon. 

Personally I 100% believe that there are shenanigans going on with SOME NC brands, but generalizing is always a mistake. There are some good and very well made NCs and incidentally there is even a certified organic NC cigar: the Plasencia Reserva Organica. My biggest issue with NCs (and the reason why my interested moved back to CCs) is that they have been trying too hard to please the public by moving to bigger and bigger RGs and stronger and stronger "peppery" cigars. Both of which are things I hate. 

There is a very fine line to walk between giving your customers what they want and maintaining your philosophy of what the product should be even if it's against what the customers say they want. Going to either extremes is bad for the your company and the industry as a whole. I don't have the numbers at hand but I'm willing to bet that the NC industry is not selling as well as it was selling in the 2010s; the trend of focusing on limited editions and boutique stuff also supports the idea of a market that is oversaturated with products and doesn't have a growing customer base. 

[Walter19]

I smoke what I like. Prefer CC's, but there are some NC's that are fantastic.

Anyways, the link below is for the Puro Sabor Festival. Topics to be discussed:

Factory Tours

Master Classes

Panel Discussions and roundtables

Experts and manufacturers ( not third party and joeys uncle Tito).

Puro Sabor 2021 — Light 'em Up World

[Cairo]

1 hour ago, Enduin said:

a market that is oversaturated with products and doesn't have a growing customer base. 

 

I have no clue how accurate these numbers are, but this is what Altria is showing for data.

https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2021/02/04/tobaccocontrol-2020-056230

[Enduin]

I might be completely off track in my opinion since I don't have inside knowledge, but certain signs are often associated with a certain market behavior. Even the CA forum, possibly the main hub of NC conversation, disappearing after a few years of slow death, does not speak of a bubbling growth of new NC cigar smokers. Again this is just my opinion. 

 

[PigFish]

Interesting thread people!

I have been interested in the climatology aspect of cigar husbandry for a long time now. I can attest to how difficult it is to move a conversation once myth has set in. I applaud the search for objectivity over subjectivity. I agree with some making statements about extrapolating an underhanded business practice from an anecdotal experience. This does not mean I deny the anecdotal, that is the best most of us have. Furthermore, it is really easy to spread a half-baked hypothesis. Just watch the news!

I have just one thing to add. I see no positive proof that 'oils' in cigars are either necessary, flavorful or volatile. I have fought the attributes of oils (as essential) as just another myth for a long time now. I see it much the same as the plume discussion. Smoke enough great dull (wrapper) cigars and you can get the experience for yourself. Since you cannot see what is inside a cigar, the oil content of the majority of the cigar remains an unknown.

Lastly. Sheen is surface finish and ability to reflect light. Paint can be shiny or flat without oils on the surface. I prefer a satin sheen (appearance only) to my cigars. I have not yet found it to be a measure of anything beyond that of reflecting light. Your experience may differ.

If the dull ones (Cuban cigars only) offend you, you can send the dull ones to me and I will pay the postage... OH! Lets start with the dull ones around 42 ring!

 

Been a good read folks!

Cheers! -Piggy

[Cigar Surgeon]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:24 AM, Cairo said:

 

I have no clue how accurate these numbers are, but this is what Altria is showing for data.

https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2021/02/04/tobaccocontrol-2020-056230

CA just released their annual import number analysis: https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/premium-cigar-imports-hit-361-million-in-2020

[Fosgate]

4 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

CA just released their annual import number analysis: https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/premium-cigar-imports-hit-361-million-in-2020

Maybe the reductionn of marriage rate have someting to do with more guys with available credit in the U.S. to blow. I'm sure no stimulus check money was spent on cigars.  

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2020/4/marriage-rate-blog-test

[helix]

Well that was fun. Completely out of popcorn .