Why are there so many Partagas small cigars, while other brands axed them ?

[sw15825]

So I have been wondering. Why are there 9 Partagas Petit/Corona cigars still in production while many other brands discontinued theirs with few to one left? Ie., Upman PC and QDO Coronas. 

[Nino]

No idea - but happy there are small cigars.
Have been bunkering them any chance I find.
?

[JohnS]

The answer is twofold. One, there is an historical factor which, related to reason two, has induced a favourable market share in the current time to continue production for these cigars.

Credit needs to go way back to Don Jaime Partagas for the way he set up and grew his brand in the 19th century. He was an innovator in getting the best leaf for his cigars, then he was active in marketing his brand. By the early 20th century Partagas was the second highest exporter brand for Habanos cigars. During the period prior to the Great Depression in 1929 the bigger brands sought to protect their market share through mergers and conglomerates. Partagas instead grew its brand by buying out other noted brands such as Ramon Allones, Bolivar and La Gloria Cubana (hence why these cigars are rolled in the Partagas factory to this day).

This successful marketing approach led to these numerous Partagas 'lower-tiered' cigars above to find a market (mainly in Europe) which they still enjoy today. If they still didn't sell, believe me, they wouldn't be around.

[NSXCIGAR]

Several brands up to 2002 had robust small cigar ranges. Many of these were machine-made. HSA made the decision to eliminate machine-made cigars from all major brands in 2002. Subsequently, they just decided to cut most of these cigars instead of converting the MMs to HM for non-Global brands. The Global brands converted many of these models to hand-made kept them, particularly Partagas and RyJ due to their large following and success in Europe and Duty Frees.

HU, on the other hand, really took a beating here. After the Revolution their small cigar portfolio was massive. About half of those were cut in the 1980s and the rest cut in 2002 with only the Coronas Major/Minor/Junior tubos being converted to hand-made and surviving. The Minor was just cut last year. But it appears popularity for their small cigars was waning for decades having gone through several major purges from the 1970s to the 1990s. 

So today we're left with Partagas and RyJ being the small cigar kings. 

[sw15825]

1 hour ago, nino said:

No idea - but happy there are small cigars.
Have been bunkering them any chance I find.
?

Ohh, I fully agree. I just miss HUPC, Dip 4's and Qdo Coronas. I miss the variety of blends and strengths. I really like Coronas and CG sizes. 

[sw15825]

23 hours ago, JohnS said:

The answer is twofold. One, there is an historical factor which, related to reason two, has induced a favourable market share in the current time to continue production for these cigars.

Credit needs to go way back to Don Jaime Partagas for the way he set up and grew his brand in the 19th century. He was an innovator in getting the best leaf for his cigars, then he was active in marketing his brand. By the early 20th century Partagas was the second highest exporter brand for Habanos cigars. During the period prior to the Great Depression in 1929 the bigger brands sought to protect their market share through mergers and conglomerates. Partagas instead grew its brand by buying out other noted brands such as Ramon Allones, Bolivar and La Gloria Cubana (hence why these cigars are rolled in the Partagas factory to this day).

This successful marketing approach led to these numerous Partagas 'lower-tiered' cigars above to find a market (mainly in Europe) which they still enjoy today. If they still didn't sell, believe me, they wouldn't be around.

Yes, so I see, Partagas having such a huge market share along with those decisions that come down to sales and cigars such as HUPC, Dip 4 and Qdo coronas just were not that popular outside of connoisseur circles.

[Cairo]

2 hours ago, nino said:

happy there are small cigars.
Have been bunkering them any chance I find.

Agreed.   I have been pleasantly surprised by a variety of the "lesser" Partagas.    They seem to age really well and there are subtle differences between the different offerings if you pay attention.   I am currently working through a box of Habaneros (2017) and Corona Juniors (2014)--they have been solid winter smokes.

[Bijan]

The only universally liked small Partagas offering on this forum seems to be the Partagas Shorts. Everything else depends on whether the forum member likes cheap and cheerfuls or not.

In that respect Partagas is behind Montecristo which has the no. 3, no. 4, no. 5, and Media Coronas, and Bolivar that has the BPC and BCJ. Tied with the other marcas which have one quality small offering (Ramon Allones, San Cristobal de la Habana, etc.). Romeo y Julieta now has the Petit Royales but their Petit Coronas and Mille Fleurs are not universally regarded as highly as premium as other ones mentioned before.

Edit: Forgot about Rafael Gonzalez which has the Perlas and Petit Coronas.

[amberleaf]

I've always been mystified why RyJ has at least 4 marevas in their lineup while Upmann, Diplo, JL etc have all had theirs discontinued.

I've always thought that a Petit Corona defines a brand, and that every brand should have one.

[Bijan]

4 minutes ago, amberleaf said:

I've always been mystified why RyJ has at least 4 marevas in their lineup while Upmann, Diplo, JL etc have all had theirs discontinued.

I've always thought that a Petit Corona defines a brand, and that every brand should have one.

At least with RyJ they have several lower quality marevas (technically Petit Coronas same sized vitola just different history) that sell really well (for example here in Canada where taxes are heavy but based on price not weight, cheaper the cigar, cheaper the taxes). With those other marcas you'd have a higher quality marevas (more expensive to make) that sells really poorly. Not an attractive proposition.

[JZBdano]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

 

HU, on the other hand, really took a beating here. After the Revolution their small cigar portfolio was massive. About half of those were cut in the 1980s and the rest cut in 2002 with only the Coronas Major/Minor/Junior tubos being converted to hand-made and surviving. The Minor was just cut last year. But it appears popularity for their small cigars was waning for decades having gone through several major purges from the 1970s to the 1990s. 

Did they cut Majestics, Regalias, Epicures after the PC?

[dgixxer252525]

While I am relatively new to smoking(2012-ish), I have always favored PCs and lanceros over any other vitola. To me, if a brand can master these vitolas, they really deserve credit...partagas mille fleur, monte 4, and Rafael Gonzalez PC are all awesome cigars and def my go to smokes...

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, JZBdano said:

Did they cut Majestics, Regalias, Epicures after the PC?

Nope. Still around.

[JZBdano]

Good, Thanks. 

[sw15825]

21 hours ago, Bijan said:

The only universally liked small Partagas offering on this forum seems to be the Partagas Shorts. Everything else depends on whether the forum member likes cheap and cheerfuls or not.

In that respect Partagas is behind Montecristo which has the no. 3, no. 4, no. 5, and Media Coronas, and Bolivar that has the BPC and BCJ. Tied with the other marcas which have one quality small offering (Ramon Allones, San Cristobal de la Habana, etc.). Romeo y Julieta now has the Petit Royales but their Petit Coronas and Mille Fleurs are not universally regarded as highly as premium as other ones mentioned before.

Edit: Forgot about Rafael Gonzalez which has the Perlas and Petit Coronas.

I am also a short lover. It always seems that I buy those. That said, I have thought about pulling the trigger on a box of the previously machine made Partagas cigars. I might post a poll on small Partagas cigars, minus the shorts.

[Bijan]

1 minute ago, sw15825 said:

I am also a short lover. It always seems that I buy those. That said, I have thought about pulling the trigger on a box of the previously machine made Partagas cigars. I might post a poll on small Partagas cigars, minus the shorts.

Of those ones the Super Partagas and Mille Fleurs are probably the most popular. But everyone has their favourite. I'd be interested in the poll results.

[sw15825]

22 hours ago, amberleaf said:

I've always been mystified why RyJ has at least 4 marevas in their lineup while Upmann, Diplo, JL etc have all had theirs discontinued.

I've always thought that a Petit Corona defines a brand, and that every brand should have one.

Me too. It seems a shame to us in the connoisseur circles, but just does not sell enough overall and HSA looks at their bottom line over us. It would be cool if they could produce one of those every couple of years on a rotation through the brands and they would all get bought up, especially when people know it will have a limited run. I should probably stop fantasizing now..  Lol..

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

Of those ones the Super Partagas and Mille Fleurs are probably the most popular. But everyone has their favourite. I'd be interested in the poll results.

I believe the Mille Fleurs are available in 10's. What about the Super Partagas ? 

[Bijan]

21 minutes ago, sw15825 said:

I believe the Mille Fleurs are available in 10's. What about the Super Partagas ? 

Only ones left in less than 25 boxes are the mille fleurs and Partagas de luxe but even that was discontinued in 10 boxes in 2019. So only mille fleurs now. Maybe Coronas junior still comes in 3 packs... CCW might just be out of date.

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/brand/partagas

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

Of those ones the Super Partagas and Mille Fleurs are probably the most popular. But everyone has their favourite. I'd be interested in the poll results.

The "best" seems to alternate every few years between the MF, SP, PCE and Aristocrats. I really can't tell you what each one does differently. They've always seemed pretty interchangeable to me with no particular one ever standing out--at least not since the mid-2000s. Some of that even goes back to the MM cello days when it didn't matter to me which I picked up. Mostly SP but a lot of MF and "Aristocratas", always around $55/box at the LCDH.

 

22 hours ago, JZBdano said:

Did they cut Majestics, Regalias, Epicures after the PC?

Still around. HU does have some presence in the small offerings segment but if you look at what's been cut since the 70s it's a very long list. Far more cut and far less remain than Partagas and RyJ.

[DanWil84]

What I didn't see in this topic yet and this is shooting from the hip by a noob with a bunch of assumptions, next to tobacco selection the wrapper to filler ratio suits the Partagas taste as mostly described (on the bolder side of the typical CC flavor profile) also very well in a thinner and smaller vitola. I enjoy my smaller Partagas a lot being a NC smoker also, the RyJ I have in the same vitola are nothing like them.

If you like a bolder smaller cigar I would also recommend RASCC, if you pull the band and said it was a NC I would believe you.

[NSXCIGAR]

On 1/17/2021 at 2:34 PM, Bijan said:

The only universally liked small Partagas offering on this forum seems to be the Partagas Shorts

That's because I believe the Shorts are using better quality leaf. I've always felt the Shorts should not be lumped in with the others and are much more a part of the premium side. I've never been impressed with the quality year-over-year with the small Partagas. Same with the small offerings of the other brands, although I think many of the RyJs can hold their own with the more premium cigars. I've had many Belvederes, RdL and Sports Largos that can absolutely hold their own with the PC and MF. However, the HU small cigars I think are garbage. All the tubos, Epicures, Regalias and Majestics. The PC always blew them away as do the Shorts compared to the Partagas. Same with the Punch tubos and the Hoyo Coronations. Very unimpressed.

I try and separate out what I refer to as the "small offerings" to the global brands only because all the other small cigars in the other brands are of high quality. I can't think of a Perlas and Minutos that isn't using high quality leaf unlike the small cigars of Party, HU, Punch and RyJ. Unfortunately, The Shorts is the only Minutos or Perlas of the global brands (except Siglo I), so it gets unfairly lumped in with what I call the "small offerings."

[Bijan]

@NSXCIGAR I don't disagree. The shorts were always handmade which puts them in a different category from the rest of what you call the "small offerings" which were previously machine made.

Just on looks and combustion/burn (ignoring flavour) you can tell the shorts are better made.

There are a couple of previously machine made cigars that I think are now more premium after the upgrade to handmade. To me that's definitely PLMC, but also Sports Largos and to a lesser extent Upmann Epicures, which I like better than the half coronas, and I feel as you do that everything else Upmann and small is pretty garbage now. I also like some of the other RyJ small offerings you mentioned that are pretty consistent with the RyJ DNA, but I felt the same way about the Partagas ones until very recently and soured on them a bit so I don't know what to think.

[NSXCIGAR]

4 minutes ago, Bijan said:

To me that's definitely PLMC, but also Sports Largos and to a lesser extent Upmann Epicures, which I like better than the half coronas,

The PLMC is a rare exception that effort was put into after the HM transition. I believe it's the only one from the non-global brands to use long filler after the transition.

As I said, I also have had the most luck with the RyJs. I would spend money there. The Epicures, I have just had no luck at all. I would never take one over a Half Coronas, although I haven't been that impressed with the Half Coronas admittedly. I have had some Majestics and Regalias that were passable but just not really bringing the A game. 

[Bijan]

16 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The PLMC is a rare exception that effort was put into after the HM transition. I believe it's the only one from the non-global brands to use long filler after the transition.

I think the Punch small offerings are an exception to that rule (Coronations, Petits Coronations) at least about long filler, definitely not the same effort put into those. 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

I think the Punch small offerings are an exception to that rule (Coronations, Petits Coronations) at least about long filler, definitely not the same effort put into those. 

I don't have MRN handy to cross-ref but it appears the HM version of the Royal Coronations and Petit Coronations existed alongside the MM versions. CCW lists the HM until 02 but says under the current models they were MM prior to 02. I'm thinking these had both HM and MM concurrently like the RyJ Tubos did. 

So yes, I was mistakenly thinking the Punch tubos had only been HM. Seems they cut the HM (Coronations [1]) and made the MM (Coronations [2]) into the HM which exists today. I think there was a thread long ago about the odd way they went about this. Instead of just cutting the MM and leaving the HM they cut the HM and converted the MM it to HM. Only HSA...