Another 5 years of Tory rule in the UK

[BrightonCorgi]

25 minutes ago, JoeyBones777 said:

I think the rule is US politics are taboo but all other politics are ok...if I'm not mistaken. 

I am glad Tories won and hope they can get Brexit done.  Jeremy Corbyn is an awful person; full of hate.

[Cairo]

1 hour ago, JoeyBones777 said:

I think the rule is US politics are taboo but all other politics are ok...if I'm not mistaken. 

US person here who thinks that is a _great_ rule.    We get to learn about other countries without getting dragged into flame wars.

There are plenty of forums for US political "discussion" (aka hysterical screaming and name calling).

This is my stress free forum.    ?      

[99call]

3 hours ago, nino said:

Might be another 5 years of Tory rule for England & Wales - I see Scotland out of the UK next few years....

To be honest in terms of freedom, or devolution. I'd be massively pro a union of the Celtic nations, in fact the North are anti Westminster/ London rule. As are the Cornish.  Let just confirm what is already factual, that London & home counties is its own perverse self serving entity and the rest of the county/other countries want little to do with them.

Northern Ireland is the only head scratcher

[Buck14]

How is it that the UK has its lowest unemployment rate in 45 years (the US lowest in 50 years) and the markets are near / at an all time high and this is hardly ever talked about? Very similar to the US. It's deeply concerning that the Tories get very little / no credit for these extremely impressive, historical economic numbers. I would make a sizeable wager that if the Labour Party were in power with these record numbers that is all we would hear about. I realize that the economy is not the only thing that matters but that is where you should start. Are there jobs available? Check. Are the markets working to enhance wealth? Check. What the hell else do you want?

I also realize that Brexit is the big elephant in the room but isn't Leave / Stay more a matter of personal political preference and the real issue the extreme lack of any reasonaable Leave Execution Plan?

 

[99call]

3 hours ago, nino said:

Might be another 5 years of Tory rule for England & Wales - I see Scotland out of the UK next few years....

To be honest in terms of freedom, or devolution. I'd be massively pro a union of the Celtic nations, in fact the North are anti Westminster/ London rule. As are the Cornish.  Let just confirm what is already factual, that London & home counties is its own perverse self serving entity and the rest of the county/other countries want little to do with them.

Northern Ireland is the only head scratcher

[99call]

3 minutes ago, Buck14 said:

How is it that the UK has its lowest unemployment rate in 45 years (the US lowest in 50 years) and the markets are near / at an all time high and this is hardly ever talked about? Very similar to the US. It's deeply concerning that the Tories get very little / no credit for these extremely impressive, historical economic numbers. I would make a sizeable wager that if the Labour Party were in power with these record numbers that is all we would hear about. I realize that the economy is not the only thing that matters but that is where you should start. Are there jobs available? Check. Are the markets working to enahnce wealth? Check. What the hell else do you want?

 

In work poverty is massive in the UK. That's because the Tories have fudged the books with zero hour contracts and the like.  The UK is a mix of capitalist and socialist values which is why it's great.   

Take the industrial age for instance. Lots of wealth for the few. Lots of jobs. Lots of in work poverty. Lots of death at work.  You may argue that this is wonderful, a golden vision of capitalism.    We'll it's one we reject. Whether its Victorian Philathropists creating decent living conditions for their workers. Co-operatives in society. Or the NHS etc.  We have a great history of being able to opperate, not only progressively in business, but to also do it with decency, where the person on the bottom rung of the ladder doesn't carry the heaviest burden. 

The likes of Boris Johnson, do not want the poor to become wealthy, he wants them vulnerable and desperate. His own senior statagist is on the record as saying "the poor are right to think the Tories do not care about them...they don't"

[Akela3rd]

Having had the day to digest the info I'm strangely ambivalent about it. I do think that is due to the inevitability of the result and the fact that the British public were/are politically ill informed, which suits the politicians of all sides and is to a degree perpetuated by them. This morning I mentioned that the Tories had won to a 25 year old workmate and the reply was "which ones are they,? "...
We'll see what happens, but after an initial period of playing nice, dealing with Brexit etc I expect the money grabbing, asset stripping and usual self serving to begin. Labour blew it big time by not understanding the new political rules of deceit and misinformation and playing as hard as the Conservatives do.

Sent from 47171 Lempo 

[SenorPerfecto]

Bring back kings. Oh wait, they're here...

[Ritch]

Zero hour contracts became popular under the last labour government.

I personally think we will see a softer Tory government. Boris wants to be loved by the people as such he will give them their bread and games.

Also coming out of the EU will require massive government stimulus of the economy to keep the house of cards from falling. E.g more house building. More infrastructure investment. More investment in public services.

If Boris is smart and he is, he will spend money and shore up votes for his second term. And then after ten years leave a tattered mess of debt along with a note that says 'We spent all the money this time before you could lolz' for the envitable labour government.

[Buck14]

1 hour ago, Akela3rd said:

Labour blew it big time by not understanding the new political rules of deceit and misinformation and playing as hard as the Conservatives do.

I would wager that deceit and misinformation have been cornerstones of all political parties / movements across the globe throughout history.

[Akela3rd]

I would wager that deceit and misinformation have been cornerstones of all political parties / movements across the globe throughout history.

Agreed, but the bar has been raised significantly of late...

Sent from 47171 Lempo 

[99call]

11 minutes ago, Buck14 said:

I would wager that deceit and misinformation have been cornerstones of all political parties / movements across the globe throughout history.

 

5 minutes ago, Akela3rd said:

Agreed, but the bar has been raised significantly of late...

Sent from 47171 Lempo 
 

Yep, before the 'career' of Edward Bernays,   Politicians sought to look at society, consult their own personal beliefs etc etc and stand for policies they hoped people would vote for...........after the Edward Bernays,   they've learned from the techniques of advertising, and sought to devise ways of deceiving, stealing information.  effectively pickpocketing peoples political leanings,  and just regurgitating back to them what they want to hear.........then Bingo! vote won, game over.

Not pretty but sure if effective.

 

[Colt45]

6 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How is this thread gone this far when the same thread that is US-centric is stopped?

Well, in my time here I've come to notice that members of some countries tend to take the same view regarding politics / politicians / state of the state....

On the extremely rare occasion where there would be a member who would proffer a view differing from the masses, they were torn to shreds by their countrymen - and it was allowed.

And then there was the Greece debacle.... I've come to pretty much stay out of the political discussions.

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

 

Yep, before the 'career' of Edward Bernays,   Politicians sought to look at society, consult their own personal beliefs etc etc and stand for policies they hoped people would vote for...........after the Edward Bernays,   they've learned from the techniques of advertising, and sought to devise ways of deceiving, stealing information.  effectively pickpocketing peoples political leanings,  and just regurgitating back to them what they want to hear.........then Bingo! vote won, game over.

Not pretty but sure if effective.

 

Please, rose coloured glasses in their finest guise 

 

Politicians use to put on gladiatoral contests for "the masses".  Free booze and food giveaways was part of the mix. Spruikers telling  tales and lies   in the forum and throughout the streets. Things aren't going well? Dog whistle and blame the Greeks, Parthians, Syrians, Egyptians, Hebrews. Calls to nationalism is the "hail mary" pass of choice because it works. 

 "Fake news" has always been with us. The "dumbing down" of the populace has been a complaint for thousands of years. 

Bottom line is that electoral success mean that you you have to win over "The Mob" . It has always been thus. 

You don't do that by putting up the Jeremy Corbyns of this world. What was labor thinking?

 

 

[99call]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

"Fake news" has always been with us.

I agree with you Rob, all I'm stating is that in recent times, they've gone straight to source. no ifs not buts,  no half arsed guessing.    We have shifted from incoherent skullduggery, old school cat calling/lying.......... to cold clean voter profiling. 

[El Presidente]

11 minutes ago, 99call said:

I agree with you Rob, all I'm stating is that in recent times, they've gone straight to source. no ifs not buts,  no half arsed guessing.    We have shifted from incoherent skullduggery, old school cat calling/lying.......... to cold clean voter profiling. 

It was always going to be the case.  Political beings will use all tools at their disposal. Adapt or die (electorally). 

My point is that only the tools and their reach have changed. Politicians haven't become worse. The mob hasn't become dumber. Politicians have always been self serving and the mob self absorbed. 

It just comes down to selling  your message. it comes down to your marketing. 

Once the results are in it is all about "winners are grinners" and the losers can "suck it up, learn and do better next time". 

The worst thing that can happen is for the winners to grin for too long and for the losers to spend years shaking  fists at the injustice of it all.  

 

[99call]

7 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

 putting up the Jeremy Corbyns of this world. What was labor thinking?

Completely agree.   The rise of Jeremy Corbyn is a perverse by product of a London stronghold of the 'momentum' movement.   Corbyn combines limp wristed 'trustafarianism' with hard lined communisim. It's something that has binary opposition to the North, and old school Labour (where I sit)   The only people in society who can afford to keep such unworkable political opinions are crustie drop-outs who live in some odd state of self denial.  I.e secretly rich

The end of Jeremy Corbyn is the only silver lining in the sad, sad story.    l

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How is this thread gone this far when the same thread that is US-centric is stopped?

45 posts to date and no abuse/denigration. 

Not possible on US politics. Shamefully. 

[GavLew79]

I guess the public didn't want an anti-business, anti-Semitic, anti-prosperity, terrorist-sympathising bell-end in charge of our country. ?

[99call]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

It just comes down to selling  your message. it comes down to your marketing. 

Again agreeing.  I've already referred to the work of Edward Bernays, who was A, the nephew of Sigmund Freud, and B, the Ex advertising guy, who assisted the American government in making women smoke, by rebranding them as 'torches of freedom'.     If you have the time Rob (and I know you don't)  You'll find Adam Curtis's 'Century of Self' fascinating.    

 

[srbbones]

[99call]

2 minutes ago, GavLew79 said:

I guess the public didn't want an anti-business, anti-Semitic, anti-prosperity, terrorist-sympathising bell-end in charge of our country. ?

This is like celebrating the fact you've just shuck off a cold,   when simultaneously, you've just contracted syphilis.    

 

[Ken Gargett]

have a look at recent elections around the globe in places such as here, britain, elsewhere. most of us are horrified by the govts that get in, but would be even more horrified by the alternative. shorten was desperately unpopular here, and deservedly so. boris may come across as a bit of a pillock but corben? in charge of the UK? that is unthinkable. 

in the UK, i also think that voters must have been sick to the teeth of brexit and the cesspool it was creating. you might not have liked boris but if this got rid of all the brexit crap - and i suspect many no longer cared what happened, just that it was over - then they'd be happy to vote for him. 

[99call]

2 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

boris may come across as a bit of a pillock but corben? in charge of the UK? that is unthinkable.

I think this perception of both men, really rests on the persons political leaning. I see things as completely flipped.  I see Corbyn as being useless and pathetic,   but Boris as being the much more worrying truly evil force.  I pound shop Churchill with the sociopath Dominic Cummings making him dance like a desperate puppet. 

[99call]

this is the real new prime minister, people will learn it drip by painful drip