Burn issues: What am I doing wrong?

[Silverstix]

2 hours ago, Islandboy said:

It is rather interesting that NC’s don’t seem to suffer from the same issue here. Do they cure the cigars longer after rolling, I wonder? Or could the Cuban freezing process be introducing moisture?

It sure is interesting, and I'd love to know more about the differences in the whole process between CC and NC.  Fermenting/Curing/Harvest etc.  All I know is I can grab pretty much any NC right out of my humidor at 65%, 68%, whatever, and go sit outside and 9/10 it performs great regardless of the wind/temps/humidity outside. Unfortunately they don't always scratch my itch, but at least I don't have to worry about chucking one because it won't burn.

[Ritch]

Getting it lit evenly before smoking it is the key. That and no wind. I have found that a cigar lit with a standard none torch butane lighter is better. Needs a torch for touch ups tho. Or better yet light off a gas hob. Never had a bad burn off a gas hob.

 

Or better yet smoke double coronas or Churchills. By the time the boring first third is smoked it will be burning perfectly....

[MigsG]

13 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

It can't hurt to give your cigars the old humidity test to check your hygrometers aren't off. They can be anything fun 1-7% off just due to how they're made (Unless you're spending triple digits on lab grade ones):

Give them a roll between forefinger and thumb. If your humidity is about right the cigar should give a crackle

Second this.

Also like others mentioned, best with no wind.  Some of my best experiences have been with zero wind.    

[BlueRidgeFly]

I’ve had this issue with CC and NC sticks lately and it’s been driving me nuts.

Tonight, I did the refrigerator dry box bit for longer than I normally do, about an hour twenty. Also stood it upright in the open ziploc bag, clipped head up, thinking that since the problems seem to get worse during the latter half maybe that would help dry the problem end more.

It is definitely better tonight. In fact, this has burned perfectly despite being more humid outside than last night when I had massive issues. More research to do ?

[Baccy]

11 hours ago, PigFish said:

Do you refrigerate your cigars?

In other words, are you one that uses a cooled humidor and stores below 70F? Mentioning only the rH that you store is a technical error. It is because people assume that the climatology is right for your cigars from rH only. That is a mistake of the reader as well.

A comment made above about water attaching itself to cigars the minute it is in the ambient outside the humidor is also incorrect. The depends on the rH and temperature of the ambient and the cigar itself. If water is landing and sticking to your cigars, try warming them!!! That is right. A cold cigar will attract water just like a cold mirror does in the shower in the AM.

You might also try smoking differently. I doubt you have heard this one before, as it is not often thought of by cigar smokers.

Do you understand that water vapor actually displaces oxygen (and other molecules in air). This is true. Ask any pilot about the 3H's (heigh, heat, humidity). So do the other 2... The less O^2 in the air, the more you have to draw on the cigar to keep it lit and hot. You therefore need to smoke more aggressively in high rH, altitude and temperature environments to get the same puff to combustion ratio. It becomes even harder on lose drawing, large ring cigars. You might feel that you need to use a vacuum cleaner to keep those going.

First check the temp of your storage and lookout for actual condensation (albeit microscopic) on your cigars. Don't refrigerate them. Store them closer to 70F and above. Next try smoking some thinner ring cigars this time of year. As others have mentioned, get it lit right and if it comes to worst, smoke like hell!!!

Good luck! -the Pig

Thanks. You definitely know your shit, but No I don't have any sort of cooling. I just use a coolidor, and it does, in fact, get pretty warm in this room at times, but no higher than 80. Maybe this is a problem. I can't afford a nice cabinet w/ cooling but I may be able to get a wineador if that would help..

[GinFizzLove]

18 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

It can't hurt to give your cigars the old humidity test to check your hygrometers aren't off. They can be anything fun 1-7% off just due to how they're made (Unless you're spending triple digits on lab grade ones):

Give them a roll between forefinger and thumb. If your humidity is about right the cigar should give a crackle

Like an audible crackle, or a tactile crackle? 

[CrownN7eveN]

I live on the Texas Gulf Coast, and have issues sometimes like you’re having.  #1 for me is making sure the cigar has had ample time to rest (months) at 65%RH and 70 degrees.  Sometimes I dry box, but haven’t really noticed too much a difference.  In my experience, with a rested cigar Relative Humidity range from 62 to 69, smoking outdoors at anywhere above your rested cigar RH (especially in the 80%+ range) is going to “humidify” the cigar, which may cause some variation of “Tunneling.”  Humidity it seems, always gets to the cigar, whether CC or NC.  You can tell, when the wrapper starts curling/“blistering” at the burn line.  By the final third, it may require constant touch ups and constant toking (as it’s gotten so wet).  This in turn for me, makes the cigar hot and start to taste “off”.  I have come to terms with this as a byproduct of smoking in high humidity, because I don’t have these issues when the humidity is lower.  However, I am still experimenting with storage conditions, so going even lower on the RH is still on the Agenda.  Also, Construction can cause tunneling as well.  If it’s a Construction issue, the best thing I can say is, is to kinda gently “pinch” the cigar together while smoking it.  I believe PigFish wrote about a “similar” technique or if I remember correctly he may even have a video on the forum discussing it.  I’ve used this type of technique for under-filled cigars (a major source of tunneling in my experience), and have saved quite a few of them.  Now, in regards to “Canoeing”, it is mostly due to cigar construction issues whether CC or NC.  I can usually tell from examining the foot of the cigar, and/or the head (when using a guillotine cutter), whether or not I’m going to have canoeing issues or not.  To confirm, I roll the cigar between my fingers and find the “twisting” canoeing pathway that my cigar will follow as it smokes.  To me canoeing very seldom follows a straight line, and can move from the outside of the cigar to the inside, or vice versa.  If you’re canoing with a well rolled cigar, the moisture balance may be off, for instance if you grabbed an icy cold beverage and accidentally touched the cigar against it on your way to the porch.  Uneven lighting of the cigar can do this as well, or I even suspect where the different fillers are bunched up running along the length of the cigar.  Trying to get all the information about the individual cigar prior to smoking, helps me stay on top of the issues I may encounter.  So with that being said, take what I say with a grain of salt, cause YMMV.  I’m just throwing my 2 cents in from My Experience.  Also for the record, I’m still “experimenting” with storage conditions in regards to all my cigars, so I can’t speak for ALL storage conditions.  I’m still trying to find the optimum rH and temperature that will make burn issues like these far and in between.  But I suspect it’ll take many more years of trial and error to find out.  Y’all have a nice day!

[CaptainQuintero]

6 hours ago, GinFizzLove said:

Like an audible crackle, or a tactile crackle? 

Should be both if held up to your rear. We're not talking like scrunching up a bag of potato chips, but there should be a definite dry crackle but with a bit of give/bounce to it. If there's no sound at all then it's most likely overhumidified or your ears need checking 

[bbguardsp]

2 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

Should be both if held up to your rear. We're not talking like scrunching up a bag of potato chips, but there should be a definite dry crackle but with a bit of give/bounce to it. If there's no sound at all then it's most likely overhumidified or your ears need checking 

Oh yes, the ancient technique of holding the cigar to your REAR.  Forgot where our sixth sense was located lol.

[PigFish]

I think some of you folks are conflating legitimate construction issues from Tabacuba with high rH.

It is helpful to the smoker to understand what problems are, and are not his/her fault. I don't see tunneling as an rH issue. Nor do I see any extreme burn malformation as an rH issue.

Heavier, slower burning tobaccos are supposed to reside in the axial core of the cigar. If they don't, or if there is a hot pathway, an para-axial hole in the cigar, this deforming burn will occur.

If people can douse their cigars and smoke them, there is no reason why a cigar cannot be smoked in higher rH. Blame your storage or the environment only when it is due. Finger the proper party for construction issues, and that party is maker of your cigars.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Colt45]

22 minutes ago, bbguardsp said:

Oh yes, the ancient technique of holding the cigar to your REAR.  Forgot where our sixth sense was located lol.

Fourth eye blind 

[Capt. Corona]

Once I started moving cigars from the long term holding tank to the short term holding tank I've noticed less issues with burn, smokability and more flavors.

68rh depending on the time of the year 65-75 degrees is best I can do for long term storage with my location. [generally holds pretty steady cause I'm not in and out of it everyday]

58-60rh same temps for the short term tank.

I load up the short term about once every 14-20 days and always rotate the ones left over from the previous load to the top for next disposal.

I guess this is similar to what some call dry boxing but not really dry in my case I keep media in each holding tank.

On a side note tho I have smoked some directly out of the long term tank with no problems also.   I'll be like [kid in the candy store WOW] I forgot all about these.  Can't wait, must smoke now! 

[CaptainQuintero]

2 hours ago, bbguardsp said:

Oh yes, the ancient technique of holding the cigar to your REAR.  Forgot where our sixth sense was located lol.

It's the most sensitive part!!

[ryancuad]

i completely gave up on smoking straight out of the humi a few years ago.  If i don't have something dry boxing, i just don't smoke.  But i haven't tried the fridge trick yet

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, crking3 said:

i find this to be a very good point...especially thinking back on a lot of smoking experiences.........what gives!?

Poor construction has been a plague on Cuban cigars since I can remember. I prefer the more highly packed cigars from the last millennium, however that is a personal choice that was unpopular at the time.

This does not mean that construction issues don't plague non-Cuban cigar makers as well. I have little experience with them, however it was the hot, wind tunnel draws and overall lack of robust flavors that moved me from those cigars to Cuban cigars in the first place.

-the Pig

[TBird55]

9 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

Should be both if held up to your rear. We're not talking like scrunching up a bag of potato chips, but there should be a definite dry crackle but with a bit of give/bounce to it. If there's no sound at all then it's most likely overhumidified or your ears need checking 

What did you say?

[inter4alia]

To the point raised by @PigFish, I was having burn issues at the beginning of my VR Unicos. Knocked off the ash after the first inch or so to find this gaping hole. Pure Cuban craftsmanship right there. 

[Ry27]

Could younger cigars be the cause of burn issues? I have a couple boxes that are less than a year old and they feel almost wet, when you pinch them the tobacco just mushes together, no crackle at all, in the past I tried a few of these and burn issue and rubbish flavor was the result. Now I only smoke my cigars if the leaf feels dry and has a crunch to it. I wonder if this could be the cause of many of the OPs issues?(assuming I am correct that some newer cigars leaf is still moist)??

[CaptainQuintero]

8 hours ago, Ry27 said:

Could younger cigars be the cause of burn issues? I have a couple boxes that are less than a year old and they feel almost wet, when you pinch them the tobacco just mushes together, no crackle at all, in the past I tried a few of these and burn issue and rubbish flavor was the result. Now I only smoke my cigars if the leaf feels dry and has a crunch to it. I wonder if this could be the cause of many of the OPs issues?(assuming I am correct that some newer cigars leaf is still moist)??

  There's more moisture in fresh cigars but you shouldn't be running into anything in your type of age. It sounds more like your humidor is running high/hygrometers are off

  How are the rest of the cigars in the humidor?  It can take anything up to 6 months for your cigars to properly acclimatise to your humidor, but if it's been that long and they're still squishy then it's pointing to the humidity being too high in your storage

[Ry27]

3 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

How are the rest of the cigars in the humidor? 

I just calibrated my hygrometers a couple months ago and both humidors are at 65rh/68-70 degrees Fh. The issue with my younger cigars is limited to a few newer boxes I have only had for less than 6 weeks, and all boxes are under a year old. Im not too worried about it because all my other stock is in great shape.

[Ry27]

47 minutes ago, crking3 said:

65 is too high from my experience

I’ve began to feel the same, slowly dropping my humidors to 62 

 

[CaptainQuintero]

2 hours ago, Ry27 said:

I just calibrated my hygrometers a couple months ago and both humidors are at 65rh/68-70 degrees Fh. The issue with my younger cigars is limited to a few newer boxes I have only had for less than 6 weeks, and all boxes are under a year old. Im not too worried about it because all my other stock is in great shape.

  Even calibration isn't the be all and end all that it's sometimes spoke of as. It still goes back to the quality of the product at the end of the day

  But with the cigars in question it sounds more like it's just because they haven't had enough time to acclimatise to the humidor: 3 months is minimum, I'm more happy with 6+.

  What is your set up, wine fridge, tupperdor, wooden humidor etc?

[Silverstix]

On 8/27/2019 at 10:22 AM, PigFish said:

 

If people can douse their cigars and smoke them, there is no reason why a cigar cannot be smoked in higher rH. Blame your storage or the environment only when it is due. Finger the proper party for construction issues, and that party is maker of your cigars

Cheers! -Piggy

Yep.  When it comes to construction and consistency, the NC world has the CC world beat by a mile, there is no questioning that!  When people talk about a 1 or 2% difference in RH being the reason why a cigar smokes great or doesn't smoke at all, sometimes I laugh.  Admittedly not an expert but it doesn't make sense to me that one country's tobacco is fine with a lot of room for error in storage, but the tobacco from the country right next door needs to be coddled.  More times than not, it's on the maker of your cigars.  All I really know is what I like, and that is a great tasting cigar that is easy to smoke. The taste part comes from Cuban tobacco, and when I get quality construction it is a match made in heaven.  Like the Vegas Robaina Famoso I had last night - razor sharp burn, great profile, just heaven.

[Baccy]

I'm having a breakthrough folks! This excellent Fonseca #1 has the most perfect razor sharp burn line I've ever seen in a CC and it just so happens that the humidity level here in Central GA is about 38% currently, which is much lower than normal... coincidence?

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