Time for a comeback?

[Bri Fi]

Based on threads, it seems the current trend is Cuba is turning out a better product the past couple years. It could be quality of crops, better quality control, or both. That said, is it time for HSA to bring back the coveted and much waited upon LGC MDO2? If not now, then when? I’d like to think it hasn’t been officially discontinued for a reason. 

I only ask about LGC MDO2 cause that’s what I’ve been waiting for since I started buying Cubans. I’m sure there are others you all have been waiting for that haven’t been officially discontinued. 

[shrink]

LGC MDO2 is a legendary smoke, rivaling the Party 898 in flavor and trumping it in complexity. 2008's are smoking great right now! 

[Bri Fi]

Here’s another question. It’s been five plus years since they’ve come out. I believe I read 2013 was the last box date. How much for a box in 2019/2020?

[oliverdst]

I dont think quality has to do with the cuban hype.

Most newbies cant tell the huge diferences between cigars at this stage.

BUT

It would be good to have thinner cigars.

[99call]

5 hours ago, Bri Fi said:

Here’s another question. It’s been five plus years since they’ve come out. I believe I read 2013 was the last box date. How much for a box in 2019/2020?

For an old box probs around $550

If they were re-released in the standard line, I imagine probs about $40 more then a box of Party 898 so around $340

[gojira]

6 hours ago, Bri Fi said:

Here’s another question. It’s been five plus years since they’ve come out. I believe I read 2013 was the last box date. How much for a box in 2019/2020?

The two boxes that I purchased recently both have the following code:

ULA JUN 14

First time that I have seen post 2013 boxes.

IMO the MdO No.2 is gone and will probably never appear again.

[99call]

16 minutes ago, gojira said:

IMO the MdO No.2 is gone and will probably never appear again.

this may be true,  but I think it's great that they don't needlessly commit to discontinuing. 

To my mind a cigar as a mechanical object is optimal in a 42 format, and the best evolution can be found in Dalia's and Laguito 1s.     Like all fashions the pandering to the American market will end, and the stupid cigars with fade away again. 

 I'd say the majority of smokers, who smoke for long enough all come to the same conclusion. That there is little need for any other vitolas than

-Minuto-Petit corona- lonsdale- Churchill- and a figurado thrown in for a bit of fun. 

With this in mind LGC is a great blend and it sings in a Lonsdale format........on that basis they would be bloody stupid not to bring it back.......yes stupidity currently reigns, but it cant do forever.   I predict they will go up to 62 rg, some poor bugger will get lock jaw and choke to death, then they'll have pull them all for H&S reasons.  

[gojira]

30 minutes ago, 99call said:

this may be true,  but I think it's great that they don't needlessly commit to discontinuing. 

To my mind a cigar as a mechanical object is optimal in a 42 format, and the best evolution can be found in Dalia's and Laguito 1s.     Like all fashions the pandering to the American market will end, and the stupid cigars with fade away again. 

 I'd say the majority of smokers, who smoke for long enough all come to the same conclusion. That there is little need for any other vitolas than

-Minuto-Petit corona- lonsdale- Churchill- and a figurado thrown in for a bit of fun. 

With this in mind LGC is a great blend and it sings in a Lonsdale format........on that basis they would be bloody stupid not to bring it back.......yes stupidity currently reigns, but it cant do forever.   I predict they will go up to 62 rg, some poor bugger will get lock jaw and choke to death, then they'll have pull them all for H&S reasons.  

I agree with you. The des Dieux was never properly deleted but is MIA as well.

I'm not sure if I will live to see the trend of big RGs fade away. I frequently chat with the owner of my B&M about the current market (he moves a lot of stock and has quite a few foreign customers) and one thing is certain. 52 or above is what sells nowadays. After that it's (maybe) the PC and the DC. All the other stuff? Nobody except for a handful of cigar smokers cares about them. The Lonsdale? My favourite vitola by the way, it doesn't sell.

LGC is an amazing marca. I think that my most smoked cigar in 2018 was the No.4. I couldn't believe my luck when I scored two boxes of the No.2. But by today's standards cigars like these have sadly become a niche market. HSA is throwing guys like us a bone by keeping the LGC No.4 or the Party 8-9-8 in the market.

I have started to adapt. Big RG cigars are now a part of my current rotation. I don't smoke a lot of them but I do smoke a few every month now.

[CaptainQuintero]

  I suppose we all thought that the Fonseca#1 was as dead as a dodo but some miracle happened and the rest is history, so anything really can happen.

  But with the huge mark up new releases command, I can't see there being much motivation for them. Maybe the Fonseca was simply the favourite of a party boss...

[Fugu]

The MdO2 had always been priced below the P898v. Don't know why they should change that should it make a return. Keep in mind, we are not 'the market', as desired as they might be here on the forum. There is a reason why they are not to be seen.....

While thinking about these, don't forget the No.4 folks! Buy them!

[99call]

2 minutes ago, gojira said:

I agree with you. The des Dieux was never properly deleted but is MIA as well.

I'm not sure if I will live to see the trend of big RGs fade away. I frequently chat with the owner of my B&M about the current market (he moves a lot of stock and has quite a few foreign customers) and one thing is certain. 52 or above is what sells nowadays. After that it's (maybe) the PC and the DC. All the other stuff? Nobody except for a handful of cigar smokers cares about them. The Lonsdale? My favourite vitola by the way, it doesn't sell.

LGC is an amazing marca. I think that my most smoked cigar in 2018 was the No.4. I couldn't believe my luck when I scored two boxes of the No.2. But by today's standards cigars like these have sadly become a niche market. HSA is throwing guys like us a bone by keeping the LGC No.4 or the Party 8-9-8 in the market.

I have started to adapt. Big RG cigars are now a part of my current rotation. I don't smoke a lot of them but I do smoke a few every month now.

I guess it's a case of spinning plates. Currently I see the markets like this, and I full accept it's very stereotyped 

Asian Market - Whatever confirms most prestige in owning, whether that be vintage, most expensive, or smallest limited release

American Market -  Whatever has the flashiest, macho, pimped up packaging, or biggest length and RG

European Market -  The fading light, whatever presents the value of the yesteryear.  Living in the past with regards to old school reserved style and culture. 

Looking at this, we the Europeans, present ourselves as the least valuable customer.   We are wanting to offer the the least money, and want the hardest cigars to make/best quality cigars.   In short we are easiest to cut out of the picture in terms of what market HSA want to sell to.

My hope is the people that the American and Asian markets just get bored of large RG cigars, and normality resumes. 

[gojira]

1 minute ago, 99call said:

I guess it's a case of spinning plates. Currently I see the markets like this, and I full accept it's very stereotyped 

Asian Market - Whatever confirms most prestige in owning, whether that be vintage, most expensive, or smallest limited release

American Market -  Whatever has the flashiest, macho, pimped up packaging, or biggest length and RG

European Market -  The fading light, whatever presents the value of the yesteryear.  Living in the past with regards to old school reserved style and culture. 

Looking at this, we the Europeans, present ourselves as the least valuable customer.   We are wanting to offer the the least money, and want the hardest cigars to make/best quality cigars.   In short we are easiest to cut out of the picture in terms of what market HSA want to sell to.

My hope is the people that the American and Asian markets just get bored of large RG cigars, and normality resumes. 

It's definitely something like this.

You certainly have the Asian market pinned down.

I also agree with you on your view of the US market and would say that 95% of the cigar smokers there fit this profile.

Europe, I don't know. My brother works in cigars in Germany. he is the buyer for a huge online seller there and the trend is big RGs. When I visit the lounge where he works (they do online and B&M) to have a smoke there 80 to 90% of the guys sitting there smoke big cigars. The same goes for France. Just an example, the Boli LE flew off the shelves here. The RyJ, even though it's a 49 RG is still available. It doesn't sell, it's not fat enough. I agree that there are some cigar smokers located here in Europe that definitely favour the "old school" smokes but I fear that they are not enough to make a difference.

But I am with you. I always hope that a Lonsdale or something else I like will be released when the new release list becomes public. Even as an RE. I had a hard time scoring some of the PL RE in Germany, but I don't regret scoring some. Not enough but I'm happy to have something new with a small RG in my stash now.

[Lotusguy]

If the MdO2 or HDM DD re-appeared it surely would drop the bottom out of the resale market

Having said that, I see QdO Coronas in the new packaging sell for more than the older ones - blows my mind.

[BrightonCorgi]

There is about 20 cigars that Habanos fans would herald the return of.  

[LGC]

If the MdO2 or HDM DD re-appeared it surely would drop the bottom out of the resale market

Having said that, I see QdO Coronas in the new packaging sell for more than the older ones - blows my mind.

It just shows that many active buyers are not interested in aged cigars or blend characteristics.... but rather obtaining something with more flash, or that’s not readily available (yet)

[99call]

43 minutes ago, Lotusguy said:

If the MdO2 or HDM DD re-appeared it surely would drop the bottom out of the resale market

To a degree, but there is no guarantee that the new ones would be at the right level of quality. 

We know that the level of MdO2 and HDM DD that are generally being offered (largely 2012-14) are outstanding. 

Essentially all Im saying, is that regardless of rarity I think they are arguably worth the cash just on the level of quality they're currently at. 

[Fugu]

6 hours ago, 99call said:

My hope is the people that the American and Asian markets just get bored of large RG cigars, and normality resumes.

To tell the truth, there never has been such thing as 'normality' in the CC-market history.... haha
 

[99call]

10 minutes ago, Fugu said:

To tell the truth, there never has been such thing as 'normality' in the CC-market history.... haha
 

Cuba have only just caught up to the principles of advertising as championed by Edward Bernays.

Cigars used to be made as consumables built to provide an experience. Now they are being made so you can look like an idiot choking to death in your car.  Don't tell me this is "normal"

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Cuba have only just caught up to the principles of advertising as championed by Edward Bernays.

Yup, but seems you are just focussing too closely onto the period of the current economic system, Stefan. (and you won't expect a comment on that blowhard there.... well, apart from, there is a sucker born every minute  )

No, I certainly got what you are meaning to say (and concur with you on personal format preferences, certainly!). This was meant a wee bit in jest. Still, any joking aside, what we may perceive as "normality" today is just a matter of time scales and the perspective we are adopting. Reality is - there has never been a state in Cuba you could call "normality". If you look back further into the history of the Cuban cigar, at least going back now 200 yrs since the market had been liberated from the Spanish tobacco monopoly, and Cuban cigars started being made for export on the island: There had always been and repeatedly been strong dislocation, politically as well as economically. Independency wars and occupation, with abandoning of tobacco fields and crops, uncontrolled introduction of foreign seeds, causing serious quality issues, waves of heavy taxation (not at all a recent phenomenon! e.g. McKinley act), waves of emigration (not just after the revolution), a boosting proliferation of factories, brands and formats, followed by periods of consolidation and concentration (e.g. buyouts during the US-Trust period), and so on.

Even when just looking back into the short time span we are overlooking, from personal experience, of e.g. the last two to three, perhaps four decades, there have been repeated times when Double Coronas had been difficult to come by, Cuba frequently been struggling to serve markets (incl. an almost complete crop failure in 1980/81, extremely poor crops again 92-94), lack of production means during the 'special period' (as what seems to reappear today), hurricanes hitting, a war of trademarking lawsuits with France and Spain, leading to temporary supply-cuts of certain marcas in those markets, and so forth. There is and there has always been a strong dynamics in it. The same holding for past fads such as prevalence of perfectos, L&S, candela wrappers (AMS), or the proliferation of the overly fat or the short stumpies we see today. So, what is 'normal', I ask, who sets the standards?

[SignalJoe]

19 hours ago, Bri Fi said:

Here’s another question. It’s been five plus years since they’ve come out. I believe I read 2013 was the last box date. How much for a box in 2019/2020?

I have purchased four boxes over the past 2 years (2001, 2002, 2014 x 2) 3 of the 4 were in auctions.  Pricing ranged from $380 - $550. I also silently watched a box from 2002 sell for $900 recently.  I guess it depends on bidders pockets and desire to win.