Where do you keep your RH/Temps?

[dicko]

You don't recharge them?

Hi mate. I do not. I have done it before but just wasn't getting the same results. They are pretty decent value and last a good while so I just replace them. Not very environmentally friendly of me I know.

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[Wilzc]

If I had to guess, something built on or with a Newair cooler!
-Piggy

It’s a Grubel unit. Does not look like the NewAir or Whynter stuff.

But more or less.

I’m actually flummoxed at this current setup. And WHERE does the excess humidity come from. I have 8 x 65rh bovedas in there that’s been discharged and ready to roll. I’ve got a dehumidifier running 24/7 at 65rh. So the room never goes over 70rh.

Yet it’s always 75-80rh in the wineador.

I’m thinking this has something todo with the drain plug. It’s unplugged now and probably allows warmer external air in to cool down and bring condensation into the unit.




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[Monterey]

3 hours ago, dicko said:

Hi mate. I do not. I have done it before but just wasn't getting the same results. They are pretty decent value and last a good while so I just replace them. Not very environmentally friendly of me I know.

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A cigar guy, a jerk who has a huge following, posted a video on recharging bovedas.  Right after that, boveda made a youtube clip about the dangers of rehumidifing.  It was funny and hard to watch as the reason not to do it was goofy.  They were clearly scrambling to convince people to continue buying their stuff.  Sorry you had issues with recharging.  I've been doing it for years without issues.

[Jmc1983]

30 minutes ago, Wilzc said:

 

 

It’s a Grubel unit. Does not look like the NewAir or Whynter stuff.

But more or less.

I’m actually flummoxed at this current setup. And WHERE does the excess humidity come from. I have 8 x 65rh bovedas in there that’s been discharged and ready to roll. I’ve got a dehumidifier running 24/7 at 65rh. So the room never goes over 70rh.

Yet it’s always 75-80rh in the wineador.

I’m thinking this has something todo with the drain plug. It’s unplugged now and probably allows warmer external air in to cool down and bring condensation into the unit.




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I’d try two things.... plug the drain hole to create more of a closed environment and take any cedar out for a day and let it dry out a bit. The wood could be holding excess moisture raising your humidity levels. 80rh is pretty high considering you have all those 65rh bovedas. Just my thoughts 

[hunterbeav]

I have a Newair cc100h and have rock sold #'s. I have 2 different hygrometers that match RH within + or - 1 or 2 of each other all the time....temp between the 2 are within .5 df. Of each other. Both have been calibrated using the 75% calibration pack from boveda and the boveda sensor was high and low calibrated using the 75%and 32% calibration method.

My drain hole is not plugged as I've read it should be left open as long as your #'s are good.

Plugging can cause condensation (I've read)

I keep 62% boveda packs 8 (60)grm packs in it with about 120 cigars at this time. Temp is 69 to 70df.

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[blakeLA]

2 hours ago, Wilzc said:

 

 

It’s a Grubel unit. Does not look like the NewAir or Whynter stuff.

But more or less.

I’m actually flummoxed at this current setup. And WHERE does the excess humidity come from. I have 8 x 65rh bovedas in there that’s been discharged and ready to roll. I’ve got a dehumidifier running 24/7 at 65rh. So the room never goes over 70rh.

Yet it’s always 75-80rh in the wineador.

I’m thinking this has something todo with the drain plug. It’s unplugged now and probably allows warmer external air in to cool down and bring condensation into the unit.




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I certainly don't have the knowledge of someone like Piggy, so happily defer to the brighter minds.  But I owned a newair and ultimately got rid of it.  I initially struggled with over humidification.  I compensated with a lot of silica.  There are many different versions of that, but I ended up with a high volume of heartfelt beads.  They helped absorb excess moisture and come calibrated to a certain percentage of RH (below which they will release moisture, above which they will absorb).  In my experience, cigar fridges run into the issue of being a somewhat closed system...until you open it.  As soon as you do (and if it's your only humidor, you probably do often), you encounter a temp. differential between the fridge and the ambient temp. outside the unit (unless your place is super cold in which case, unplug the fridge you polar bear).  That's going to alter your RH.  In my experience, there's not a great way around that except to compensate with plenty of absorbent stuff.  I'm sure there are plenty of other things to criticize about compressor coolers, etc, but I actually found some stability with mine once I had enough boxes and silica to keep it stable.  Also held better when I opened it less, for what that's worth.  Good luck!!

[hunterbeav]

I certainly don't have the knowledge of someone like Piggy, so happily defer to the brighter minds.  But I owned a newair and ultimately got rid of it.  I initially struggled with over humidification.  I compensated with a lot of silica.  There are many different versions of that, but I ended up with a high volume of heartfelt beads.  They helped absorb excess moisture and come calibrated to a certain percentage of RH (below which they will release moisture, above which they will absorb).  In my experience, cigar fridges run into the issue of being a somewhat closed system...until you open it.  As soon as you do (and if it's your only humidor, you probably do often), you encounter a temp. differential between the fridge and the ambient temp. outside the unit (unless your place is super cold in which case, unplug the fridge you polar bear).  That's going to alter your RH.  In my experience, there's not a great way around that except to compensate with plenty of absorbent stuff.  I'm sure there are plenty of other things to criticize about compressor coolers, etc, but I actually found some stability with mine once I had enough boxes and silica to keep it stable.  Also held better when I opened it less, for what that's worth.  Good luck!!

Which Newair unit did you have....
The CC-100-H does not have a compressor.

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[blakeLA]

1 minute ago, hunterbeav said:

Which Newair unit did you have....
The CC-100-H does not have a compressor.

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I had a cc-300.  I believe that unit was thermo-electric.  I just hear people criticize the compressor systems.  My point was simply that I struggled with high humidity when my ambient temp was significantly higher than my fridge.  That may not be the issue he has, but I found that was my main problem and I had to compensate pretty drastically with silica to absorb the excess moisture.

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Wilzc said:

 

 

It’s a Grubel unit. Does not look like the NewAir or Whynter stuff.

But more or less.

I’m actually flummoxed at this current setup. And WHERE does the excess humidity come from. I have 8 x 65rh bovedas in there that’s been discharged and ready to roll. I’ve got a dehumidifier running 24/7 at 65rh. So the room never goes over 70rh.

Yet it’s always 75-80rh in the wineador.

I’m thinking this has something todo with the drain plug. It’s unplugged now and probably allows warmer external air in to cool down and bring condensation into the unit.




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Follow what you know. High rH, too much free water in your humidor.

Drain plug, maybe, what is your ambient? Net rH positive outside, drain plug is an issue. Net rH negative outside, the drain plug is actually helping you! The fact is, if your box worked as a true controlled humidor, it would not matter.

Take out all forms of water. Take out all the cigars. No, I am not kidding! Check all the boxes and all the desiccant (if you use it) for being soaked.

Get a towel and lay the humidor over on its face gently. When water spills out everywhere, clean it up!

Now start from scratch. If it is a compressor, don't start it for 24 hours.

I don't know what you own, but I do know some of wine cooler design and I am postulating that yours has a reservoir for water somewhere you don't know or cannot see. You may have a saturated box or two. I am guessing, but regardless you have too much water in their somewhere and you have to find it.

Do what I tell you, find the water and we will proceed from there. Also, post some pics so I can see what I am working with, and that might help.

Cheers! -Piggy

[PigFish]

This is a working controlled humidor. Humidor in my shop, much like home conditions. A little warmer ambient during the day, cool at night. The red line is the outside air temp.

The left side shows the humidor being opened for a period while I work inside and place the data loggers. The loggers are all out of whack because I carry them from my office in my hand to the shop.

Notice that the humidor itself recovers in a very short time.

I picked this chart because I test all types of conditions. And the humidor in the shop represents all forms of how someone might have to store their cigars. There are only two cooling cycles shown on this page. Yes, in typical 'room temperature air' this humidor will actually only cool maybe once an hour (72 to 73F). Otherwise it does not cool at all.

The humidor does have a humidifier (free water) in it. That means that the 'free water' is free to evaporate at will into the humidor space. This is why a sealed humidor, with free water must have a dehydrate cycle. If mine did not, I would see the same rH highs you do! 75 to 80rH as indicated on an instrument somewhere is what you will find. That is until all your hygroscopic elements get saturated and then it will work its way to 100rH. The blue line rH changes are dehydration cycles. The black line changes are the result of the heater running, keeping the humidor warm at 70F. It does its own thing... Nowadays, I just watch.

I know a little about what I am talking about here! I have seen it all at one time or another... The fact is this humidor will work below 60F to 95F ambient. The ambient rH does not matter either. I might have a piece of tape over the drain hole, but seeing that it has been rather dry here, and I add water to this humidor about every 3 weeks, the tape must have come off. It really does not matter!

Cheers! -the Pig

[PigFish]

If you have good control of the temperature and water in your home, just unplug the damn thing!

This is one of my humidors, not running. It has well conditioned cigars in it. it is sealed yet still controlled, testing a box I call a desiccant humidifier. This is a non mechanical means to control free water, yet allow a sealed humidor that does not have much need for water replacement to re-humidify itself based on the call from a controller. This works better than most "professionally made" humidors because it is not made of wood and it is sealed. The little dips are door openings, and the humidifier taking the rH back to where it belongs.

Now for the record, if you have a string of 80F days, the humidor is going to follow it and not stay around 70F. This is not really a controlled humidor as I would define it. It is a semi-controlled humidor that only controls net low rH. A week of high rH in the home, too many air exchanges, yet again, you are screwed again. Without a dehydration cycle there would be no way of removing all the water you picked up from the ambient.

This humidor is testing something. This is not a cutting edge humidor running. It is about the same as what you might get from spending a couple of grand with some other humidor makers. The ultimate point is this. If you don't really need to control temperature in your humidor, don't try to start. You can get pretty decent results if you control your ambient instead.

Is this well controlled like one of my fully controlled units? Well, no, it is not! However, cigar condition is what you make of it and accept it to be.

Passive elements don't make a working controlled humidor. They can work however, if you work at them hard enough. Here then is the question. What is more important to you; making a working humidor, or making a fully controlled one that runs from 60 to 95F ambient?

Make what you need. Making what you want is an entirely different exercise in time, money and materials. I make humidors as a hobby. I make the best ones because I was hell bent on doing it. It is a whole separate chapter in my cigar life. You won't get one by ordering everything that looks like it might work from various point and click sites and shoving it all willy-nilly into a wine cooler. I know. I tried that method already.

Best of luck on your projects! -Piggy

[Wilzc]

@PigFish

Live in the tropics. 28-32 deg celsius all year round. 75-85 rh average.

I’m running a thermoelectric unit with a basic peltier system with sort of like a funnel at the back for condensates to slide down into a small catchment that has a drain plug going into an external tray. Highest temp settings are at 18 deg celsius. 8 60 gram 65rh bovedas lay inside the unit.





The room is fairly temperate with a powerful dehumidifier keeping things circa 65Rh 24/7.

When running, the rh drops to around 60 then slowly creeps back up to around 75-80 when the unit is at maintenance mode. There are two possible solutions to this I suppose. One is to find a way to allow the unit to run slightly warmer. Around 22 degs would be excellent. The second way as you mention is to have a dehumidifying cycle. Seems easier said then done.

I personally think this is a design issue. If the drain plug could be extended longer this may not be a problem (it’s currently under an inch long before it hits the external laying drain plate). Also the drain plug internal design is horrible.... it allows for a small % of water never to be able to escape. Hahahah





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[Whisky91]

I use the New Air CC-100 as well. I was considering a cigar oasis but decided against it.  Currently use 69% Boveda 320g packs. I’m considering upgrading to the CC-300 and using 65% packs since I have been buying more Cuban cigars than NC.

[PigFish]

14 hours ago, Wilzc said:

@PigFish

Live in the tropics. 28-32 deg celsius all year round. 75-85 rh average.

I’m running a thermoelectric unit with a basic peltier system with sort of like a funnel at the back for condensates to slide down into a small catchment that has a drain plug going into an external tray. Highest temp settings are at 18 deg celsius. 8 60 gram 65rh bovedas lay inside the unit.





The room is fairly temperate with a powerful dehumidifier keeping things circa 65Rh 24/7.

When running, the rh drops to around 60 then slowly creeps back up to around 75-80 when the unit is at maintenance mode. There are two possible solutions to this I suppose. One is to find a way to allow the unit to run slightly warmer. Around 22 degs would be excellent. The second way as you mention is to have a dehumidifying cycle. Seems easier said then done.

I personally think this is a design issue. If the drain plug could be extended longer this may not be a problem (it’s currently under an inch long before it hits the external laying drain plate). Also the drain plug internal design is horrible.... it allows for a small % of water never to be able to escape. Hahahah





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If you pull off the door, and lay this guy on his face, does water run out? It is an important operational question?

[PigFish]

I believe that this cooler may very well have a pool of water that is kept precisely for this purpose, running up the rH after the cooling cycle.

You are right, this is an engineering issue. Controls will certainly play a part, but your cooler was not designed to be a humidor, and the demand you put on it, in your ambient, you will never get it to work without a proper design.

I share my designs publicly on my Youtube site. I don't necessarily give away all my secrets, seeing I already know of people attempting to knock them off, but that is the breaks.

You cannot share 'wet space' with your cigars, or you will have the exact problem you are having.

I am not saying that if you emulate my design, you will end up with a working humidor, but it is a start.

If you spend some time watching my videos, you will learn about what it really takes to make one of these units work as a humidor.

Enjoy the show! -Piggy

[Wilzc]

I believe that this cooler may very well have a pool of water that is kept precisely for this purpose, running up the rH after the cooling cycle.

You are right, this is an engineering issue. Controls will certainly play a part, but your cooler was not designed to be a humidor, and the demand you put on it, in your ambient, you will never get it to work without a proper design.
I share my designs publicly on my Youtube site. I don't necessarily give away all my secrets, seeing I already know of people attempting to knock them off, but that is the breaks.
You cannot share 'wet space' with your cigars, or you will have the exact problem you are having.
I am not saying that if you emulate my design, you will end up with a working humidor, but it is a start.
If you spend some time watching my videos, you will learn about what it really takes to make one of these units work as a humidor.
Enjoy the show! -Piggy

Video doesn’t really explain how condensation and free water is managed other than being drained out.

In my picture the ‘pool’ is actually right at the bottom of the V shaped channel down the middle of the back. And the drain plug is located right there too.

Tilting the humidor with the front opening facing downwards after emptying the unit yields no water at all.





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[PigFish]

55 minutes ago, Wilzc said:

 

Video doesn’t really explain how condensation and free water is managed other than being drained out.

In my picture the ‘pool’ is actually right at the bottom of the V shaped channel down the middle of the back. And the drain plug is located right there too.

Tilting the humidor with the front opening facing downwards after emptying the unit yields no water at all.





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Either your cigars are saturated, or there is water in there somewhere.

Free water is water left on the cooling unit that is not removed, or anywhere else for that matter. You must either isolate, shield, or remove the free water. That is the answer. The answer is accurate because that is what I do, with no additional secret!

When cooling cycles are not running, any free water on your cooling system is going to cook off and end up where, right back in your humidor? The false back is a means to control that very process. While water vapor is lighter than air, the colder air mixed with water tends to stay confined within the area. Therefore control of the circulation of the area is also an issue.

Something is soaked, wet, or otherwise mate! If it were not, you would not have 80rH in your sealed system. If you empty your cooler and close the door, what happens? Does it climb to 75 or 80rH? If not then the water is in the cigars or other matter.

Your TE cooler should dry the system. Living in the tropics means that you will have an endless supply of water to dispose of if you collect the condensate. That is what you need to do. You need to collect it and remove it from within you humidor space. If it is not removed as liquid water, it will simply diffuse into your cigars. If you are going to let cigars get that wet, you need to keep them warm so that water does not want to bind to them. Cool wet cigars, will be moldy cigars!

Cheers! -Piggy

[PigFish]

12 hours ago, crking3 said:

Why deal with all of this!? ....seriously I get that it’s cool for some ppl to nerd out and solve the problem with science and what not, but my goodness ditch the wineador and get a tup or something


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... the guy lives in the tropics! He has problems. He has asked for help.

Any other questions that I can help you with? -Piggy

[Pag]

I am happy with 64% -67% rh anything lower seems and taste a lil dry to me. Yes my hygrometer is calibrated, every 3 to 4 months for my sanity.

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[PigFish]

1 hour ago, crking3 said:

So why not ditch the wineador and try something else ?


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The floor is wide open mate. What would you suggest?

[BrightonCorgi]

Started off when my Aristocrat was delivered at 65% did not use any water in the summer.  New house is drier in the summer and still at 65%.  Humidor is living room and temp is whatever the living room is.  

[hunterbeav]

I am happy with 64% -67% rh anything lower seems and taste a lil dry to me. Yes my hygrometer is calibrated, every 3 to 4 months for my sanity.

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I went back to 65 to 66 rh at 70 df....to me the cigars have more flavor then when I had them at 61 to 62rh at 70 df....

Just works for me..

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[godpheonix]

i keep mine at 18-20 celcius and 61-63RH and it seems to work great, even with my aging cigars.

[Jmc1983]

8 hours ago, looseleaf said:

Dear Jason, Hello, I can’t remember the exact rh at which I started as i started many decades ago — before Boveda packs were widely available. They’re a real game changer.  For years I had no humidor or hygrometer.  Just threw a box of cigars in some Tupperware and hoped for the best. There were all kind of devices that one could moisten and put in there, porous stone, florist foam. These things could really mess up cigars with mold and too much humidity.  Eventually I acquired a big humidor, and a hygrometer that I could calibrate,  and began using large tubes of 65 rh heartfelt beads and 65 rh boveda packs. I found the beads a bit of a pia to maintain, which taught me that over the long haul  I am more lazy than obsessive. Currently, however, I ‘m experimenting with big Boveda bags, 62 rh packs and the boveda wireless sensors and app. Most of the cigars are in their boxes. The ambient air temperature in our home pretty much hovers around  67 degrees Fahrenheit year round plus or minus two degrees. This doesn’t seem to be doing any harm.  I do agree with you that Cuban cigars seem to smoke better a little drier. For some reason that I don’t understand Nicaraguan, Dominican, and Costa Rican cigars don't seem to me to be quite as sensitive to a bit higher rh. How’s the 100 h working out? What are you using to monitor rh and temp? Best of luck to you in the new year.

Greetings, 

I really enjoy the 100h, haven’t had any issues with the unit itself. Newair addressed some of the issues with the 100h model that were present in virtually all other models. The unit sits rocks solid at the set temperature regardless of the ambient conditions. I’m using 3 Acurite hydrometers that are all calibrated with the boveda calibration kit . They’re  all placed in different locations and read the exact same rh/temp. I’ve had great success with the heartfelt beads and I find them to have a greater ability to either reduce or replace humidity much quicker than boveda (IMO)... but I’m using more than the recommended amount which translates to faster recovery times. I do open the humidor several times a day and recovery time is usually a minute or so. I do plan on buying either another wineador with all shelves, or a coolador to store boxes. I can only fit a few boxes under the last draw... all in all I can get a about 250 cigars in my current setup. 

 

[hunterbeav]

Greetings, 
I really enjoy the 100h, haven’t had any issues with the unit itself. Newair addressed some of the issues with the 100h model that were present in virtually all other models. The unit sits rocks solid at the set temperature regardless of the ambient conditions. I’m using 3 Acurite hydrometers that are all calibrated with the boveda calibration kit . They’re  all placed in different locations and read the exact same rh/temp. I’ve had great success with the heartfelt beads and I find them to have a greater ability to either reduce or replace humidity much quicker than boveda (IMO)... but I’m using more than the recommended amount which translates to faster recovery times. I do open the humidor several times a day and recovery time is usually a minute or so. I do plan on buying either another wineador with all shelves, or a coolador to store boxes. I can only fit a few boxes under the last draw... all in all I can get a about 250 cigars in my current setup. 
 

Jmc...I too have the 100h and it's also been rock solid.....currently at 65 to 66 rh at 70df and the burn is perfect....and the flavors to me are way better then when I had them at 61 to 62rh...

I open mine at least every couple days and recovery is within 10 to 15 mins...

I keep my cigars out of the boxes so I can fit more in...

I will be buying another 100h soon...as I love my first one so much...

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