Take a punt (bet) on the % of Cuban fakes in your part of the world.

[PigFish]

For the record, I bought just about every fake Cuban cigar known to man when I started.

"... you want Cuban 'boy' we got Cubans..." -LOL I was taken in by just about everyone trying to find legitimate cigars.

I made some connections and took some chances. I remember the days when you needed to be introduced to buy from a legitimate dealer. My friends Aaron and Fred introduced me to Rob, told me not to call him a wanker, so I called him a wanker in my first email to him and we have been mates ever since. I don't know Rob, how long ago was that???

A lot of water under the bridge, that is for sure.

Around Casa de Pigfish... I would hazard that way over 50% of cigars sold as Cubans are frauds. It could be in the 80 to 90%.

I went to buy my sister in-law some cigarettes about a year ago and I was offered fake Cuban Piramides right at the counter. They did not even have bands... They were just Cubans (I swear it) I was told.

One place I used to smoke on Fridays after a day at the office (mortgage banking) the lounge singer used to try and sell me cigars. By then I knew Cuban cigars well, Jesus, maybe 20 or so years ago... I had a fun conversation with my friend Shrek at a herf not long ago and I was talking about the guy and he says... 'you mean Jay XXXX?' And I said, 'yeah that's him...' So he tells me that he and Aaron (yeah same Aaron) were at an eatery upstairs smoking when the same guy approached them. Aaron grabs the cigar from him, busts it in half and says, 'this is a fake f'n cigar... you a-hole... or something to that effect (you need to know Aaron) and the guy was all busted up about it... He probably still thinks he is selling real cigars!

I have busted so many guys on fakes I cannot tell you. I have quite a frauds collection still. If they are cheap enough, I will buy one now and again just to make a point of it.

Since it is almost impossible to smoke anywhere anymore my fraud encounters have dwindled to nothing. I don't go to brick and mortar stores, and that is where they are to be found.

Cheers! -Piggy

[joeypots]

Many friends from the north east USA go to the Carribian Islands in the winter. I've had dozens give me counterfeit smokes with quality ranging from pretty good to ridiculously bad.You know, cigars that look as if they were made from floor sweepings. So, I'd say that around here the vast majority of Cuban cigars people pass around here  are fake. 90%. I had a short lived local  cigar vendor tell me his under the counter Havanas were smuggled in to the USA in a diplomatic pouch. Quite a while ago  I had a friend come back from a yoga retreat in Havana who had a ten count box of Cohiba she bought from the monks running the yoga studio that were horrible.  (Somehow I was surprised to learn there are monks in Cuba.) I told her to be careful when she bought some cigars for her brother for Christmas. She was indignant when I suggested the cigars might not be authentic and couldn't believe that said monks would be part of any malfeasance. I swore that would be the last time I would ever tell anyone that their cigars were fake. 

[garbandz]

I have seen an order catalog for fakes at a small market.

Limited number of options, seems like I remember it  having an address in Chicago.

unusual date codes and impossible LEs................... 

great majority of the cigars I see are fakes...............

one guy has a whole humi full of fakes,probably 30 boxes.

[Riverstyx]

Went to the Abacos islands in the Bahamas.  Visited 3 different cigar shops, all fakes. 

[madandana]

I guess maybe I'm naive, I don't know of or haven't heard of anyone trying to sell Cubans in my area.(except a few on Craig's list).

But I don't go to BMs because I'm out in the country and there isn't any.

[shlomo]

3 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

 

As for Canada - no idea. Probably 90+% of people buy their cigars online. 

I know its just opinion, but I would completely disagree with your estimation here. I would say 90% of people buy in shops or at duty frees when travelling, and only 10% buy online.

[shlomo]

3 hours ago, Head83 said:

I see what you did there...a good game of stump the chump.  By your reasoning then, why is the middle east considered the middle east?  Couldn't it be called the middle west just as easily depending on how you look at it?    Or why is the far east, the far east when it could be called the far west? The fact is they are referred to as those locations because that is where they sit on the map that we all know and love and has been ultimately accepted by the world.  Not even going to get into the gross errors in size representations of the continents, thats a discussion for another day.  This is off subject of the original post though.  We can always start a different post to discuss the inaccuracies of cartography and how it can all be relevant to where someone is. 

I still stand firm in my statement though, its damn hard to find real CCs with the amount of fakes in the US/Mexico/Caribbean part of the world.  They are so rampant that most folks think they are real cause they have never actually seen the real thing.       

Is Cuba considered "western world"? Canada and Mexico both have LCDH and very legit Cuban cigars for sale. Need a deep wallet and to not be daft and you will find them very easily.

[Laxman]

Miami has to be the fake capital of the States. Just go on craiglist if you want a laugh and you will see 100's of boxes of cuban cigars, all fake of course. From NY and been in South Florida for 12 years. The first few years down here I did not know much about Cuban cigars. Had smoked them for years but was clueless. So over those first few years down here I ran into more people than I could count, that claimed they where from Cuba and their family would bring cigars back for them. Needless to say I picked up quite a few fake boxes. A few years back the Behike 56 was being sold everywhere for 150 dollars a box of 10. The scary thing was the packaging was spot on. The bands were off and the wrappers looked pretty ugly. 

Worst place I have seen fakes has been the Bahamas!! 98% of what you see is fake. A lot of glass top boxes. Every flea market as a booth or two selling Cuban cigars and they are all fakes. The boxes in shops are 50/50 but are stored so badly it is a shame.

[encephalization]

Living mainly in the US and I've seen quite a few fakes being brought out. Seems the vast majority of them have the same story, some guy/girl went down to Latin America and got hustled. Now, all the people I smoke with get theirs from FoH and other reputable sources so. I guess there are just so many unknown variables to give a semi-decent guess. I have a suspicion that I might underestimate the number of real Cubans that come in each month too. Someone who gets real CCs probably smoke larger quantities than someone who buys fake. Maybe? I'd say 35-40% in the US. Pulled straight from my behind.

In Sweden, my limited experience tells me it is very rare. The last box I saw here was a Cohiba RE Caribe (yes, I know..). So that probably originated from someones Bahaman holiday too.

[Head83]

54 minutes ago, shlomo said:

Is Cuba considered "western world"? Canada and Mexico both have LCDH and very legit Cuban cigars for sale. Need a deep wallet and to not be daft and you will find them very easily.

Just cause Mexico has LCDHs doesn't mean there isn't a massive amount of fakes floating around. In fact, it might be the only place ahead of the US to have a higher percentage of fake CCs in circulation!  For most tourists in Mexico, they are being approached with the normal sales pitch we have all heard a million times.  Their market is the uninformed American tourists who has never heard of an LCDH before and doesn't realize how prominent fakes actually are.  The fakes are more available than the real things in these places cause fakes come to you while the real thing must be searched out at a reputable LCDH.      

[El Presidente]

5 hours ago, PigFish said:

I remember the days when you needed to be introduced to buy from a legitimate dealer. My friends Aaron and Fred introduced me to Rob, told me not to call him a wanker, so I called him a wanker in my first email to him and we have been mates ever since. I don't know Rob, how long ago was that???

 

I'd say 20 years ago mate 

[kuma]

Great subject.  Now I have never been to Cuba and I should get there before our new Pres. really makes it

as hard as possible as if it is Fort Knox (I think gold is stored there).  No excuss for me not to go I'm 3 hours away

as the crow flies.  But here is the crazy thing.  I love Spain and I'm sure there are fakes there but where I buy them in Barcelona

I have not a worry.  Just love the place, kind of slow pace, sit on a bench in the early morning before the crowd gets up. Enjoy my espreso

read the morning paper, and the real fun begins when I light up.  All over Spain it is the norm to smoke cigars drink some vino

and enjoy ones life.  No shitty PC nonsense about why, how can you smoke that.  I tell them easy, watch me.  Most of

those comments or dirty looks  come from my own country men / women (US) who still think they are in the states.

Very rude, very uninformed!  When in Roma do as the Roma's do not the correct PC bunch!

[Fuzz]

8 hours ago, Head83 said:

I see what you did there...a good game of stump the chump.  By your reasoning then, why is the middle east considered the middle east?  Couldn't it be called the middle west just as easily depending on how you look at it?    Or why is the far east, the far east when it could be called the far west? The fact is they are referred to as those locations because that is where they sit on the map that we all know and love and has been ultimately accepted by the world.  Not even going to get into the gross errors in size representations of the continents, thats a discussion for another day.  This is off subject of the original post though.  We can always start a different post to discuss the inaccuracies of cartography and how it can all be relevant to where someone is. 

I still stand firm in my statement though, its damn hard to find real CCs with the amount of fakes in the US/Mexico/Caribbean part of the world.  They are so rampant that most folks think they are real cause they have never actually seen the real thing.       

Actually, the term "Middle East" is relatively new (20th century term), as the British Empire used the term Near East (Ottoman Empire) to describe the region. The British Empire also used the terms East Indies (countries under Indian cultural influence) & Far East (China, Japan, Korea, etc). Then you have Western Asia, an old, outdated term that refers to the same region as the Middle East.

I completely accept your statement that it is very difficult to find real Cubans in the US/Mexico/Caribbean. Just adjusting your view of what is the "western world".

[vladdraq]

i'm wondering where can be find the whatever percentage of real cubans sold in the states? Isn't illegal sell cuban tobacco at all?

 

[retrofail]

So I'm seeing a lot stories here of legit cigar shops in the U.S. having a "Cuban inventory" in the back room for the discerning customer. Obviously the prevalence of fakes in the U.S. Is a given. So I wonder what % of these cigar shop proprietors are knowingly/intentionally selling fakes vs. unwittitngly being duped by their supplier. 

[vladdraq]

real cuban cigars suppliers in the states?With barcode allowing to track down the dealer etc, hmmm, i have hard time to believe that.

[El Presidente]

10 minutes ago, retrofail said:

So I'm seeing a lot stories here of legit cigar shops in the U.S. having a "Cuban inventory" in the back room for the discerning customer. Obviously the prevalence of fakes in the U.S. Is a given. So I wonder what % of these cigar shop proprietors are knowingly/intentionally selling fakes vs. unwittitngly being duped by their supplier. 

As one great retailer once told me when I pointed out out his Monte 2 were fake (he purchased them outside the normal distributor channel):  "they were sold to me as genuine. Not my problem". 

That is the reason why distributors and HSA seldom chase down fraudsters. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and they get off with a slap on the wrist at best. They just run the "I didn't know" line. 

[retrofail]

10 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

As one great retailer once told me when I pointed out out his Monte 2 were fake (he purchased them outside the normal distributor channel):  "they were sold to me as genuine. Not my problem". 

That is the reason why distributors and HSA seldom chase down fraudsters. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and they get off with a slap on the wrist at best. They just run the "I didn't know" line. 

That's unfortunate and sounds like a great way to destroy your customer base for short term gain. 

[shlomo]

7 hours ago, Head83 said:

Just cause Mexico has LCDHs doesn't mean there isn't a massive amount of fakes floating around. In fact, it might be the only place ahead of the US to have a higher percentage of fake CCs in circulation!  For most tourists in Mexico, they are being approached with the normal sales pitch we have all heard a million times.  Their market is the uninformed American tourists who has never heard of an LCDH before and doesn't realize how prominent fakes actually are.  The fakes are more available than the real things in these places cause fakes come to you while the real thing must be searched out at a reputable LCDH.      

You stated 0% legit and/or very rare to find legit Cubans in "the West". I just pointed out that there are PLENTY of legit cigars here, just need to know where to look and not be stupid.

Would you buy a Prada bag from the local Wal-Mart if the store manager had some in the back room for "discerning customers"? 

[vladdraq]

7 hours ago, shlomo said:

You stated 0% legit and/or very rare to find legit Cubans in "the West". I just pointed out that there are PLENTY of legit cigars here, just need to know where to look and not be stupid.

Would you buy a Prada bag from the local Wal-Mart if the store manager had some in the back room for "discerning customers"? 

well, you can find Balenciagas at Ikea.

[Fugu]

10 hours ago, retrofail said:

So I wonder what % of these cigar shop proprietors are knowingly/intentionally selling fakes vs. unwittitngly being duped by their supplier.

Wrong approach and really not the question. It is ALWAYS intentional. He as a seller/proprietor is responsible for the sh*t he is selling. He needs to know or educate himself. So knowingly or perhaps not (doubtful) - doesn't matter - it is fraud by intention.

[retrofail]

6 hours ago, Fugu said:

Wrong approach and really not the question. It is ALWAYS intentional. He as a seller/proprietor is responsible for the sh*t he is selling. He needs to know or educate himself. So knowingly or perhaps not (doubtful) - doesn't matter - it is fraud by intention.

Ehhh...it's already an illegal practice to sell Habanos out of a legal place of business in the 1st place, so he's not exactly getting his supply from reputable sources to begin with. Unless he's getting it online from known good sources such as FoH. But nobody is paying retail for a product they plan to resell. The markup isn't worth the legal risk. 

Being a black/grey market item in the U.S. to begin with, I doubt the majority of cigar shop owners could delineate fakes 100% of the time. Habanos experts can't even do that. 

[Fugu]

Jeebus, haven't heard such a nonsense in a long time, sorry. You're confusing illegal and fraud here.

There is absolutely no excuse for selling fakes, even not within the US. If a merchant (and I am assuming he is one) isn't able to delineate fake from the real thing he shouldn't base part of his "business" on it. Plain and simple. If he is frank and open about it and declares to his esteemed back room customers that he is a bloody douchebag and cannot tell right from wrong - fine.
 

[retrofail]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Jeebus, haven't heard such a nonsense in a long time, sorry. You're confusing illegal and fraud here.
 

Geez guy. I was simply pondering how many guys are unwittingly selling fakes. You obviously see things as black and white. But if you think that 100% of guys selling fakes out of a back room are 100% intentionally selling fakes, I guarantee you are wrong. Some simply don't know. 

I'm not defending it, or anybody that does it, by any means, but your throwing fraud on top of an already illegal activity like that distinction matters. It's all still illegal. 

I'm simply adding a different statistical query the Prez's original post. 

No worries though. Cheers!

[KnightsAnole]

Committing an illegal act is not always immoral,

committing fraud is always immoral.

the only person who that difference matters to, is the customer...