99call Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Now the ideal of course is to have a great core flavour of very clean and high quality tobacco, and along with that a range of flavour nuanced that arrive as transitions. In smoking my last out of a truly wonderful cab of Upmann Mag 50, it got me thinking......why am I loving these cigars so much. They were giving a bit of sweet dessert nut, lots of creme etc,the classic shortbread, but the overall appeal was just a simple core very fine tobacco taste and quality was just so so appealing. I believe to have a cigar that may taste of honeycomb but also features a low class tobacco taste, is by far a less valuable addition to my collection, than one which is just pure Rolls Royce, but with no discernable flavour nuances. I've got such a lot of time for the Mag 50, what are your Rolls Royce smokes?......one's that don't scream anything in particular apart from "I am made of 'THE' best tobacco available" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nekhyludov Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 For me, a good Lusi does that. I love them, but I constantly struggle to put my finger on exactly what the distinct flavor(s) is/are, so in my mind I just chalk it up to "that's the defining characteristic of the best Cuban tobacco." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 First that comes to mind for me is the Upmann Sir Winston. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Nekhyludov said: For me, a good Lusi does that. I love them, but I constantly struggle to put my finger on exactly what the distinct flavor(s) is/are, so in my mind I just chalk it up to "that's the defining characteristic of the best Cuban tobacco." Yep, this is the way Lusi's are to me too. Oodles of class, but a struggle to pick anything other than wonderful tobacco, a bit of core Party spine, and sour rich buttery twang. Great Rolls call 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Diplomaticos #1, H Upmann Lonsdale, Partagas Seleccion Privada #1... RGCE... ...oh my, the list goes on and on! Maybe I am not finding great cigars these days because of bad decisions made by Tabacuba past. You listening Tabacuba...? I think you are in a sick period, or just past your prime!!! -the Pig 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 Lordy Ray! I have a hard enough time finding 2nd generation Privada, never mind 1st!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElJefe Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I concur in that Partagas Lusitania is an absolute Rolls Royce of a Cigar. Even fairly young, but well rested and acclimatized Hand Picked examples from Rob, have been smoking the house down. A core of cream, light roasted coffee, leather and slight wood in the background - with a shortbread sweetness that weaves in and out. Starts out mild and builds over the nuanced 1.5 to 2 hour journey it takes you on. I haven't been able to keep my hands off these so as to let them age, so figured my best bet is to pick up an aged box when they come up. I was lucky enough to win a few of the Partagas Lusitania Cosecha GR when Rob finally got his stock in. If the regular Lusitania is a Rolls Royce, then this would be akin to your Lamborghini or Ferrari. Just so much richer, with the Flavors coming at you boldly and so strong. Smoked through the three (3) I had and given the asking price that a box of these now commands, I don't see any more in my future lol. My goal is to snag a 50 cab of PSP Lusitanias to put away for five to eight years and then dig in based on how they are coming along. Along these same lines, the Diplomatico Bushido and El Laguito Cohiba Siglos from 2012 are just amazing. I recently called home Box of Monte No. 2 - GUT OCT 13 - PSP / HQ. Smoked one right off the bat and concluded these are so strong and rich, that they have legs to go quite a few years more. Sampled one yesterday and compared to the toned down mild Monte No. 2's of most recent production, this example was so rich and just took me on a wonderful 1.5 hr journey. Cream, dark unsweetened coco and coffee, with a backbone of earth and leather. The iced Starbucks Hazelnut coffee I paired it with, just lulled out this wonderful and oh so well defined vanilla note. I'm glad that I waited a few years to call this box home and the only challenge now is going to be keeping my mitts off these. I know that the first rule of fight club is to not talk about fight club, but what the heck. Por Llaranaga Picadores are coming around at even just over the one year mark, to an amazing current production smoke status. I can't speak for everyone, but when these do come up next I will certainly in grab a few and be in hoard mode lol. I haven't had the opportunity to try any of the deleted Diplomaticos vitolas but the Dip No. 2's have been excellent as well. The core Flavors are there, albeit muted and combined with the slight burn problems, I think another year or two of rest will bring all the Flavors to the forefront. If I ever come across any Diplo No. 1's or No. 4's, barring boxes from 1999 to 2001, I will definitely snag what I see. Quality over Quantity, as cliche as it sounds, is a Mantra I seem to adopt more and more the older I get lol. My goal is to save up so I can drop the $$$ on a couple of boxes of Cohiba Lanceros and Esplendidos to put away as well. I haven't yet sampled either one of these, but reading reviews from other forum members on here and the literal seconds they sell out in, I'm convinced to join the ranks of buyers in this group. Current production Cohiba Coronas Especiales will be smoked in the near term. I had a couple of boxes of El Laguito AMO coded CCE which I chose to part with and now I look back thinking that perhaps I should have called one box home for myself. Cohiba, as you will find is a very unique and polarizing brand. Well enough ranting from my side and this is just my two cents. There are a lot more seasoned, experienced and true pedigree connoisseurs on here who can guide you even further. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I did love the 2 boxes of Diplo #1 that I've smoked but I would never put this cigar in the "best tobacco available" category – and the RGCE neither. They don't play in the same league as the Sir Winston or a good Lusitania… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 I think very fine tobacco doesn't have to be expensive tobacco. Whomever has blended the Upmann Mag 50 has clearly tried to mimic qualities of the sir Winston at a fraction of the price, and guess what! I think they got pretty close. The treads got a bit off track with picking out flavours, it was more to say that some great cigars just simply taste of very very good tobacco,.........and that is a wonderful thing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 For aged cigars I'd also categorise Cohiba Espléndidos and Lanceros, alongside Partagas Lusitanias. For younger cigars, I've had a few H.Upmann Connossieur A's that have exuded such quality. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, JohnS said: For aged cigars I'd also categorise Cohiba Espléndidos and Lanceros, alongside Partagas Lusitanias. For younger cigars, I've had a few H.Upmann Connossieur A's that have exuded such quality. I've only ever smoked about 8 connie A's and I've never done any of them service they demand. I've always smoked them ROTT and always had the same impression i.e they would be well in their stride (like Fred Astair), even if they were give 6th months extra... but I am an impatient man, much to my error! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Is anyone actually convinced that someone at Tabacuba says, not don't put that tobacco in that cigar, it is not good enough??? Don't make me laugh! That would require that the company that does not care if a cigar leaves the place with 30% less tobacco than it should have, the ones that promised that some super tobacco was supposed to be in the Big Hillbilly, the one that has a problem paying their vendors and the farmers on time, actually cares about the cigars it sells. Sorry, don't buy it. If the Cubans have wrappers (regardless of quality) large enough to wrap it, they will make it and sell it, as long as they have not stiffed the brooch maker or the printer for the boxes!!! The best looking box of cigars that I saw last year was a box of Fonsecas! Short filler at that!!! -LOL Quality tobacco is the tobacco that tastes good! There is no other reference to it. I don't care what someone professes 'quality tobacco' to be unless it defines a wonderful cigar. No wonderful cigar, not quality tobacco. If your choice happens to be Sir Winnie over my Rafael Gonzales, so be it. But there is no way I am convinced that anything is saved in that county for the best of anyone's anything with possible exception of all the States money, wealth and luxury for the Castro coffers! If the best goes anywhere it goes to Castro's table and concubine(s)... -Piggy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, PigFish said: If your choice happens to be Sir Winnie over my Rafael Gonzales, so be it. But there is no way I am convinced that anything is saved in that county for the best of anyone's anything with possible exception of all the States money, wealth and luxury for the Castro coffers! If the best goes anywhere it goes to Castro's table and concubine(s)... Sorry but that's BS. You bring the political side in every thread, you see Castro's hand behind each step of making of a product to which this forum is dedicated, it's tiring… I have smoked enough habanos to know that the tobacco in a Sir Winston or an OR BHK is a better grade than that of a Rafael Gonzales or Diplomaticos… When I started in this hobby the RG lonsdale was priced at €3 in Spain, and one could find boxes 5 years old as the cigar didn't sell, and it didn't sell for a reason: it was a mediocre cigar. Please tell me when the Sir Winston was mediocre… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Gargett Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 ray, i would tend to agree with SC on this. the top rollers - and this is an extreme generalisation and i'm sure rob could be more specific if needed - seem to be able to select the tobacco they want (or the top tobacco is given to them by those who make the selections - i remember hamlet telling us how he selected the tobacco he wanted to use), rather than just have it dumped on them. and it is the top rollers who roll the great cigars. you will not find the rookies rolling behikes for example. so if they are rolling winnies or esplendidos then they, or the person making the decision, will select the best tobacco for that cigar. no top level roller is going to be happy with substandard leaves - it will do nothing but diminish his reputation. hence, they are using the best tobacco for the top cigars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanishcedar Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 The Vegas Robaina Famoso has always given me what I really long for, a rich tobacco flavor, in a cigar. As I savor the deep richness that flows out from start to finish, the VR Famoso screams, "Don't forget me", every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc2001 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Of recent production I have not had better than the Montecristo No 1 (BUM ABR 15) and the Montecristo No 5 (MUL OCT 14), satisfying, not overly complex or highly nuanced, great aroma, great tobacco core, and good burn. Aged? Well, there are just too many to list, but almost every cigar I have smoked from 2002-2003 (except Cohibas) have been outstanding, especially the ERDM Tainos, Punch SS1 and SS2, and Partagas Lusitanias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, PigFish said: Is anyone actually convinced that someone at Tabacuba says, not don't put that tobacco in that cigar, it is not good enough???... Never been said by anyone in Cuba--ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Ken Gargett said: ray, i would tend to agree with SC on this. the top rollers - and this is an extreme generalisation and i'm sure rob could be more specific if needed - seem to be able to select the tobacco they want (or the top tobacco is given to them by those who make the selections - i remember hamlet telling us how he selected the tobacco he wanted to use), rather than just have it dumped on them. and it is the top rollers who roll the great cigars. you will not find the rookies rolling behikes for example. so if they are rolling winnies or esplendidos then they, or the person making the decision, will select the best tobacco for that cigar. no top level roller is going to be happy with substandard leaves - it will do nothing but diminish his reputation. hence, they are using the best tobacco for the top cigars. Ahh Ken. Read with some levity okay... ... gotta question for you Ken. If top rollers select their own tobacco, and each top roller is doing his own thing, how would you account for blending? Is this done in committee??? (That's commie humor... -LOL) I have to ask, when two equal rollers meet in a blind alley, do they argue over it leaf by leaf...? Does the top roller do it all then? I mean does he travel to the tobacco storeroom, all of them, and then select the best tobacco for the year, the month, the day or what? Does the best tobacco in the gallery that day qualify, or does he spend a week researching the tobacco he will roll in one day??? How does he know what is best unless he sees it all? This sounds lovely mate but I don't believe it. I am sure there are exceptions. This is Cuba. While I am often criticized for my beliefs on this forum (not whining about, I deal with it as I am quite outspoken about them) I don't believe in these 'only the best' fantasies and fairy tails. Some of us love to think that they get only the best of everything but after all we are all dependent on a supply chain somewhere and frankly some of the 'best' goes to more than one party... There is actually a damn lot of 'equivalent best' to go around to many places. So lets say a top roller get to pick his own tobacco for the day out of the gallery's hoard. I guess if they told you so, they do! I just want to know how you guys know that you are always smoking the cigar rolled in a gallery by Hamlet or the guy that got the best tobacco that day? I mean if all the top rollers get the best tobacco, then all the tobacco in the gallery that day is only the best right? It would have to be so... In that case then, it would be impossible to get a mediocre Cohiba or any top line cigar that the Cubans consider the best right? You say "best tobacco for the top cigars." Which cigar are those exactly...? So this brings me to the next question. Who then ranks them, the cigars I mean? Is this not a practical question? Were you consulted, or was Rob? So what is the top Cuban cigar? The best one. The one that is always rolled by the top roller, with the best tobacco and is never and I mean never bad... Are you going to say Sir Winnie? What if the head of Tabacuba disagrees with you. Or, what about the head of HSA? If the rollers don't know what they are rolling, this is common knowledge for Cuban cigar company policy, how does he know if he/she is supposed to be rolling a substandard RyJ Churchill that day or the 'King' of cigars, whatever that is? I mean, is it printed on the 'big board?' "You are not rolling the Sir Winnie today, so don't bother..." Is there some secret code or something that only the 'top rollers' know? Or, the day they roll the Sir Winnie, a clarion call comes form the air raid system rallying only the 'best rollers today' to roll the Sir Winnie...? This is bringing to sound more far fetched than 'my' religion...! I wish I knew that you knew what the one cigar that is always spectacular is... Hell I would have asked you long ago and that is the only cigar that I would bother to buy... I mean, it would be worth it, would it not? I have to wonder though with all that we have been though, why you have kept it a secret from me...? -LOL How come this valuable knowledge has not been known to the world before, I mean that the Sir Winnie is the best cigar in the world and there are none above it...? So it is the Sir Winnie then, did you pick it or did you just find out about it? I mean there is more than one opinion here. How about this. Lets say, that like any typical thread here we ask what Churchill is best? Given the time everyone will be mentioned. Since we all think our tastes are superior, that means that every cigar that makes the list is rolled by the top roller with the best tobacco, right? Or were you and Smalls the only two queried? This brings up another question then. So who ranks the cigars officially? I want to see 'the list' that is all that I can tell you. Did Hamlet ever show you the list? I mean the one with the one cigar at the top, the one that is never 'F'd' up! Just the ones that he rolls personally... or are only rolled by the best rollers on the nicest days with the 'best tobacco.' Please tell me!!! Please share it with us all, what are these 'top cigars' that you are talking about? Lets get the list on paper and on the record so we all know... if you buy these you are getting only the best and there will never be a bad one. I mean this is valuable stuff here! I will continue to believe evidence as I see it over the hearsay here my friend and I know what the best tobacco goes into mate... It goes into the best cigar...! The best cigar is the cigar that you, me and Smalls agree to disagree on, because it is impossible to control. It goes randomly, because no one can tell you what a leaf will taste like by its looks alone and we have boiled it back down to personal taste yet again. The fact is not one of us can prove it any different... Lastly. You show me a guy that can pick the best tasting leaf out of a bale and I will call the guy a liar if you don't have the courage to. I am simply not as gullible as most I suppose (or blindly stubborn... the choice is yours). I think we all agree on the fact that Cuban tobacco is our preferred tobacco. But lets not talk about diminished reputations okay. I mean some of these roller flee the country any chance they get, best tobacco or no. No one in Cuba is signing a box. I cannot imagine that any of them would have the guts to put their name many of cigars that come out of that country today... If someones reputation was on the line they would sign boxes and we could trace the errors back to the responsible parties. Until then, there is only one 'Party' at fault. That 'Party' owns the company and everything else on the island... (More commie humor, sorry Smalls!!!) As I see it that 'Party' takes no responsibility for anything... This is the reason that they are always crying about what their neighbor to the northwest is 'doing to them.' You have picked a bad partner if you wish to make an example of Cuba and accountability... You found one of the most infamous places on earth where they anything but accountable for anything that they do... Cheers mate! -Ray 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickEwing Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Is it possible for someone to reach out to Hamlet with these very questions and settle this once and for all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 15 hours ago, Smallclub said: Sorry but that's BS. You bring the political side in every thread, you see Castro's hand behind each step of making of a product to which this forum is dedicated, it's tiring… I have smoked enough habanos to know that the tobacco in a Sir Winston or an OR BHK is a better grade than that of a Rafael Gonzales or Diplomaticos… When I started in this hobby the RG lonsdale was priced at €3 in Spain, and one could find boxes 5 years old as the cigar didn't sell, and it didn't sell for a reason: it was a mediocre cigar. Please tell me when the Sir Winston was mediocre… So now I am back to you mate... Boo hoo... Take your whining to site management! Your sycophancy for communism is also tiring! It likely matters not what I say about cigars, you whine because you are pro communist and sympathetic to it. Frankly you take a stab at my country any time you have the opening and I just largely ignore it. I live with many stupid things you say... This is an international forum... I manage to deal with your your opinion and what I find objectionable in it. If you can't handle mine... take a class in tolerance!!! Get over it, or suffer though it, the choice is yours! Report the post if you don't like it... As an individual, what I do is often defend France and Frenchmen on this forum when they are unjustly attacked because I see it as as the right thing to do. This includes defending one particularly rude one, often the cause of the general insult...! Of course you have gifted us such gems as "you sell arms to the Saudis." That went over like a lead balloon except with your gaggle of reds. They loved it... You don't appear to much in the way of homework do you? -LOL Lastly lets talk some about the infantile nature of this argument. 15 hours ago, Smallclub said: When I started in this hobby the RG lonsdale was priced at €3 in Spain, and one could find boxes 5 years old as the cigar didn't sell, and it didn't sell for a reason: it was a mediocre cigar. (Laughing) am I supposed to be mad because you 'insult' a cigar I like??? Really... I cannot fathom that someone would actually make such a painfully silly baiting statement, but here goes...! Do you realize that you just made a judgment based on populism, or popularity? So what you said is that a certain cigar at some date and time did not sell 'because' they were bad. This then means that all that did sell was good... or was better. Which in fact, they might have been... Tabacommie is not exactly known for consistent quality now is it? (You were supposed to laugh at that, by the way...) With that logic then the best wines come in a cardboard box, the best restaurant is McDonalds, and the best beer is Budweiser. The best food is rice or soy beans and the best tobacco is put into cigarettes! The absolute best Cuban cigar then is the Monte 4 (or whatever is the most popular today). Dude, you had better tip the bottle less, or wake up a little earlier and do some homework if you are going to debate this stuff with people. Frankly, this is as damn stupid as the "you sell arms to the Saudis" post...! Okay, now I am ready for the site "Reds" to chime in... I am all yours mates!!! -LOL I have spent enough time trying to teach logic the ideological. -Piggy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said: Is it possible for someone to reach out to Hamlet with these very questions and settle this once and for all? Okay... I swore I was done with this thread but here goes... I don't need another mad member to ague with so don't take this personally but rhetorically, please!!! Are you saying that Hamlet knows more than your own tastes? How does this settle anything? You ask one roller if he has an opinion about his choices in the quality of tobacco by his sight, when quality means taste; what do you expect him to say? I mean quality does mean taste does it not? Is the smoker not the final arbiter on the taste of his/her cigar? Does one need "Hamlet" for that? We are grown men and women here. Do we need 'authority' to tell us what the best cigar is? Again mate, nothing personal, just an opinion to get the memberships' neurons firing... (and guns blazing...!) Cheers! -Piggy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickEwing Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 31 minutes ago, PigFish said: Okay... I swore I was done with this thread but here goes... I don't need another mad member to ague with so don't take this personally but rhetorically, please!!! Are you saying that Hamlet knows more than your own tastes? How does this settle anything? You ask one roller if he has an opinion about his choices in the quality of tobacco by his sight, when quality means taste; what do you expect him to say? I mean quality does mean taste does it not? Is the smoker not the final arbiter on the taste of his/her cigar? Does one need "Hamlet" for that? We are grown men and women here. Do we need 'authority' to tell us what the best cigar is? Again mate, nothing personal, just an opinion to get the memberships' neurons firing... (and guns blazing...!) Cheers! -Piggy Whoa whoa whoa. Arms down Piggy! I have no interest in wading into anything philosophical or political here. Simply, I was curious whether Hamlet, as a master roller of Cuban tobacco, can provide insight to the logistics behind the operation (or for the skeptic..the propgaganda served for the logistics). In other words, was he ever tipped as to the cigars he was making? Was he told to spend a day, a week, a month and choose tobacco? Was he told that he was to make premium cigars and nail the roll? No claims to his taste or opinions. I mean to say, are certain cigars or rollers ever treated substantially different than the other 90/95% or cigars and rollers? I am seeking insight rather than supposition, which seems to be the prevailing source of this thread and many of its kind. Now. You may return to battle Ray. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetary Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Run for the hills! Ol' Ray's got a full head of steam going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backbone Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I love a Monte #4 with an ice cold Budweiser....mmmm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, PatrickEwing said: Whoa whoa whoa. Arms down Piggy! I have no interest in wading into anything philosophical or political here. Simply, I was curious whether Hamlet, as a master roller of Cuban tobacco, can provide insight to the logistics behind the operation (or for the skeptic..the propgaganda served for the logistics). In other words, was he ever tipped as to the cigars he was making? Was he told to spend a day, a week, a month and choose tobacco? Was he told that he was to make premium cigars and nail the roll? No claims to his taste or opinions. I mean to say, are certain cigars or rollers ever treated substantially different than the other 90/95% or cigars and rollers? I am seeking insight rather than supposition, which seems to be the prevailing source of this thread and many of its kind. Now. You may return to battle Ray. Now there's a man that is using a term that I understand... WHOA! -LOL Perhaps we can introduce an idea. How is tobacco to be judged? At the wholesale level by look, or at the retail level by taste? As for battle, I have already made it past the lobby of Planetary's building and am making my way up to Politburo headquarters!!! -LOL Cheers mates! -tP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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