Passing of Fidel Castro

[Jeremy Festa]

Never too soon

RIP Fidel


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[Jeremy Festa]

HBD Wazza


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[Randolph]

Well I think this calls for a cigar on the verandah and a drop of hearty Shiraz. It will have to be a H Upmann No 2 

[ayedfy]

52 minutes ago, Jeremy Festa said:

Never too soon

RIP Fidel


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Ha, cheeky.

[vinnyvega]

It's interesting to see the global perspective here on FOH.

[oliverdst]

Yesterday I was trying to find his 'definitive' biography. I know in Che biography it's mentioned somewhere but it will not be easy to find. 

Does anybody know which book could be this Fidel biography?

[anacostiakat]

Good riddance!

[Ryan]

Fairly lucky with the timing.

With nine days of official mourning, if this had happened two weeks ago, the Partagas festival would have been cancelled. And no drinking on the Malecon til sunrise. Though it would have been interesting to have been in Cuba for some of this.

I watched a video from La Rampa at 3 am this morning Cuba time. That street is normally like Mardi Gras at that time, with people coming out of clubs and the wi-fi hotspot etc.

Deserted this morning.

Whatever about the politics, many cubans actually honestly loved him, many others of course didn't. I heard a quote this morning "He survived an era which he helped to define."

To survive the fall of the Soviet Union and what Cuba went through as a result in the '90s, he obviously had talent as a politician.

[oliverdst]

4 minutes ago, Hutch said:

You know that this is Che Guevara, not Fidel, right ?

I think that's why he posted. He was joking. Are you joking too?

[alloy]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow. RIP finally.

[Philc2001]

To survive the fall of the Soviet Union and what Cuba went through as a result in the '90s, he obviously had talent as a politician.

Most Cuban Americans, especially those that lost family or endured decades of hardship under him, would vehemently disagree.

Reaction in Miami:

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[Ryan]

14 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

 

Most Cuban Americans, especially those that lost family or endured decades of hardship under him, would vehemently disagree.



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As I said, politics aside.

I'm not going to discuss his failures or achievements. It's difficult to have an objective view as Castro was an oddity.

The only gauge of a politician I use is longevity as, sooner or later, all political careers end in failure.

He lasted nearly 50 years. Regimes and other systems of government came and went that were far better and far worse, than his.

[Corylax18]

I completely reject the premise that "this means nothing". Sea change. No. But certainly a step in the right direction. No, Cubans are not waking up today to a completely different and better world, but Raul has already opened things up immensely. Granted, I just got back from my first trip, but the bulk of the Cuban economy is not socialist anymore, its pure capitalism. Private taxis, Casa Particulars, etc. I understand the Gov. "owns" all of that, but I was stunned at the size and spread of the underground economy. That has grown tremendously under Raul, and most likely will under the next leader. It would take whole sale reform and years, to squash all this back out.The Cuban people have realized(many of them) that they are more than capable of thriving, with our without their governments help. I understand that he was more of a symbol the last 10 years or so, but my hope is that more people now feel confidant enough that they too can participate in the modernization of Cuba. 

[Philc2001]

As I said, politics aside.

I'm not going to discuss his failures or achievements. It's difficult to have an objective view as Castro was an oddity.

The only gauge of a politician I use is longevity as, sooner or later, all political careers end in failure.

He lasted nearly 50 years. Regimes and other systems of government came and went that were far better and far worse, than his.

Ryan, I don't think you fully grasp the meaning of politician, ie; a candidate for or someone elected to public office. Castro was not democratically elected, he seized power by brutal force and never let it go, that is the textbook definition of a dictator.

Take a look at the USA Today headline;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/26/cuban-dictactor-fidel-castro-dies-90/94462814/

There is a trail of blood and a lot of criminal atrocities credited to him.

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[SaintMickey®]

I know people who think he is a hero and I personally people who he took their possessions and "potentially" was responsible for many peoples...uh demise.  But hero or evil everyone is equal in the end...

To get on topic...I believe it will open up the island more and Habanos "availability" will have to be affected. Additionally I think this will be the first step for Pollo Tropical (and McDonalds) in Cuba which we all can probably agree is sad.

 

 

[Philc2001]

I believe it will open up the island more and Habanos "availability" will have to be affected. Additionally I think this will be the first step for Pollo Tropical (and McDonalds) in Cuba which we all can probably agree is sad.

Nothing will change beyond what Obama already put in motion via executive order. Fidel's influence in Cuban rule ended about 10 years ago. Raul, his brother, is his personally appointed successor and has been in charge since 2006. Raul's passing would potentially create a path to change, for better or worse, but until then I don't see how this changes anything.


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[SaintMickey®]

4 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

Nothing will change beyond what Obama already put in motion via executive order. Fidel's influence in Cuban rule ended about 10 years ago. Raul, his brother, is his personally appointed successor and has been in charge since 2006. Raul's passing would potentially create a path to change, for better or worse, but until then I don't see how this changes anything.

From your lips to the CEO's ears. But very soon when Raul is gone...I don't believe Cuba will be recognizable to those who have visited in the past. Of course we are talking years or even decades but...and this isn't a dig on Cuba per se. I mean change is inevitable...I much prefer the places I go frequently Portland ME, Key West FL, Frankfurt Germany, Dublin Ireland, New York City better from 25 years ago than now. Maybe I'm just nostalgic but I don't think so...

[Ryan]

32 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

Ryan, I don't think you fully grasp the meaning of politician, ie; a candidate for or someone elected to public office. Castro was not democratically elected, he seized power by brutal force and never let it go, that is the textbook definition of a dictator.

Take a look at the USA Today headline;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/26/cuban-dictactor-fidel-castro-dies-90/94462814/

There is a trail of blood and a lot of criminal atrocities credited to him.

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There's plenty of stuff I don't grasp. But Fidel seized power in a country of 10 million people beginning with a few dozen amateur soldiers. I know that that is not done without support of the populace, i.e. a political mandate.

There were plenty of times when Fidel received a democratic mandate. For example in 2008 when his personal choice of successor, Raul, was elected almost unanimously by the National Assembly.

Fidel was never the only person to have influence in Cuba since the revolution, there are army generals and national assembly members who have some too. Yet Fidel managed to stay on top for nearly 50 years.

The Cuban regime is a political system, there is a government and a constitution. That regime is still very largely defined by the revolution. Many, many Cubans are proud of what the revolution achieved. And for many of those, Fidel was the revolution.

I'm not saying he was "good" or "a nice chap" or had policies that benefited everyone. Not by a long shot. But those things rarely define a successful politician. And by "successful" I only mean length of political career.

[SaintMickey®]

Just a general comment....I travel to China for work and the Chinese think their government is great and they "ain't missing anything" too.  So when I saw video of 19 year old girls saying how sad they were and how Fidel gave them "everything" and the ability to "study"...

"This was a repressive government and Fidel's net worth was but 900 million USD... "The average state salary in Cuba rose 1 percent to 471 pesos ($20 a month)" Jun 17, 2014.

Thats what I care about...the people.

Edit....And I am an Irish/Welsh white guy not Cuban with an agenda.

[Philc2001]

From your lips to the CEO's ears. But very soon when Raul is gone...I don't believe Cuba will be recognizable to those who have visited in the past.

Change has been happening for several years in Cuba, mostly because communism is/was a failure. Once Fidel ceded power to Raul, Raul almost immediately started to ease the bonds of communism and permit a token beachhead of capitalism out of necessity. The Castro regime will never admit to failure, so they will not fully embrace capitalism.

Until there is freedom of speech, protection and respect for basic human and civil rights, a democratically elected government, and a rule of law that is not based on Castro's rule, there won't be any significant economic reforms or investment on the island.


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[SaintMickey®]

Just now, Philc2001 said:

Until there is freedom of speech, protection and respect for basic human and civil rights, a democratically elected government, and a rule of law that is not based on Castro's rule, there won't be any significant economic reforms or investment on the island.
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Well said.

[Mattygukas]

Take the government structure aside, human rights and assumed purposeful limitations of their economic and personal freedoms, its the reason why I am personally glad we are rid of his filth.

Hate to be that way but I see no value in him at all...took his throne by force, promised democracy, and became the ultimate dictator... simple to me.


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[HectorLopez]

Ryan, I don't think you fully grasp the meaning of politician, ie; a candidate for or someone elected to public office. Castro was not democratically elected, he seized power by brutal force and never let it go, that is the textbook definition of a dictator.

Take a look at the USA Today headline;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/26/cuban-dictactor-fidel-castro-dies-90/94462814/

There is a trail of blood and a lot of criminal atrocities credited to him.

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^^^^^ This!!!

You wouldn't fully understand this man and his cronies unless someone in your family had a knock at their door telling them that they no longer own the tobacco fields that have been in their family for generations no longer belong to them and now the government is taking them. And if you don't agree we will have a serious talk, which will end up with family members dead. This happened to my family both on my mothers and fathers side in San Luis, Pinar Del Rio.

I wish this would have happened 30 years ago!!!

[Philc2001]

There's plenty of stuff I don't grasp. But Fidel seized power in a country of 10 million people beginning with a few dozen amateur soldiers. I know that that is not done without support of the populace, i.e. a political mandate.

There were plenty of times when Fidel received a democratic mandate. For example in 2008 when his personal choice of successor, Raul, was elected almost unanimously by the National Assembly.

Fidel was never the only person to have influence in Cuba since the revolution, there are army generals and national assembly members who have some too. Yet Fidel managed to stay on top for nearly 50 years.

The Cuban regime is a political system, there is a government and a constitution. That regime is still very largely defined by the revolution. Many, many Cubans are proud of what the revolution achieved. And for many of those, Fidel was the revolution.

I'm not saying he was "good" or "a nice chap" or had policies that benefited everyone. Not by a long shot. But those things rarely define a successful politician. And by "successful" I only mean length of political career.

Ryan, there is much here I respectfully disagree with. The Castro regime is a totalitarian government that seized and maintained power by military and brutal force. In every coup there are loyalists, so when the dictator assumes power there are bound to be a sizable group of supporters, especially those who anticipate benefits, and many who have an axe to grind with their neighbors or former champions. But I think you are confusing that loyalty as popularity or in some measure as the will of the people. It isn't.

The general assembly you hold in high esteem is a group of hand selected loyalists that are beholden to their communist leaders. They are not representative of the people. Do you really think they would oppose the commander in chief of the military forces?

I will leave this here as you have a very different perspective of justice and liberty than I do. We can simply agree to disagree.

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[Colt45]

8 hours ago, Warren said:

Wow. He came to power the year I was born and he has died on my birthday.

Happy birthday comrade