Do you still remmeber El Corojo tobacco.

[laficion]

Hi all,

I was just thinking of this while I was smoking a cigar this afternoon.

Do you remember when all your cigars were made from

this Tobacco ?

El Corojo Tobacco was grown from 1930 to 1997 .

It was known,at the time, as the Best Tobacco In the World.

 It stoped because they said that It was too suscepteble to the,

"Blue Mold" and the ," Black Shank" a root fungus that allows the leaves to fall.

El Corojo came from It's plantation outside of San Juan y Martinez and was created by Diego Rodriuez at his farm

Santa Ines Del Corojo from where came Its name. Anyway,

I really miss It's taste,It's oillyness and  It's force even though

Habanos S.A. said that the new tobaccos are just as good as El Corojo.

Guy

[LGC]

Would they ever state that a new vitola, blend, or tobacco strain is inferior to the previous ones?? LMAO!

I still have some boxes with corojo wrappers. Special cigars indeed!!

[yannis]

this is a sad story for all havana lovers.

 

I vividly remember the Davdoff s and cohibas taste and aroma from the end of 1980s.And the early 90s cohibas.

No NO comparison with todays tobaccos.If something could happen,if  someone powerful could push the people in the Cuban cigar business to bring it back,would be a dream of mine...

 

[RijkdeGooier]

Love the old Corojo. Have a few left

myself, but not as much as I'd like??

[yannis]

  On 6/20/2016 at 4:19 PM, RijkdeGooier said:

Love the old Corojo. Have a few left

myself, but not as much as I'd like??

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Rijkde , you have to give us some! please.

 

[Fugu]

We should be able to find lots of the old Corojo seed tobacco outside Cuba...

[vinnyvega]

If I remember correctly 98 and  very early 99 were still rolled with it.  

Still not better than habanos 2000....

[cigaraholic]

I certainly remember but I try not to think about it much......it's drepressing!

It's like telling every beer drinker we're only going to make light beer ...... Havana Lite..... that's what we have now.

[Bolismoker]

Still have a few boxes and various singles with the old wrapper. There certainly seems to be a noticeable difference to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NSXCIGAR]

  On 6/20/2016 at 5:47 PM, vinnyvega said:

If I remember correctly 98 and  very early 99 were still rolled with it.  

Still not better than habanos 2000....

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Yes, late 90s cigars were certainly utilizing El Corojo, but it just wasn't the same after 1996. I believe the blend changes in 1995-1996 were an attempt to compensate for a lack of high-quality Corojo due to both the mold issue and the substantial increase in production during that time, so late 90s CCs were a shadow of their former selves. 

Cuban cigars prior to 1996 and cigars today are incomparable, and I will argue with anyone who says otherwise. The Corojo tobacco had an intense character, the true Cuban "twang." IMO, brands like Partagas and Bolivar benefited the most from the Corojo. The heavy earthiness and citric acid flavors were the most prominent in those brands. Smoothness and creaminess was never really something found in CCs as it is so often found today with Habana 2000. HSA got very lucky in that the expanding North American market prefers milder blends.

I don't know anyone who would have described CCs as anything but "intense" until the late 90s. I recall smoking Boli CEs and PSD4s from 1994-1996 that would quite literally blow your face off with intensity. The concentration of flavor was immense. Not necessarily "strong," but the word I just keep coming back to is "intense." I know there aren't too many here who have much experience smoking CCs during that era, but I'm hoping the few that do can chime in and concur.

This was also a time when many cigars very much needed age to round out. There was ammonia and a tannic flavor present in many ROTT cigars. Punch in particular. One couldn't even touch a SS1 or SS2 without 3+ years on them. 

There is much to like about Habana 2000 as well. For those who prefer milder and smoother, creamier cigars it's a superior tobacco. Habana 2000 is also much more manageable young. No ammonia or tannic flavors anymore. But as someone whose favorite brand by far was Bolivar, followed by Partagas, and no longer is, I can tell you I miss the Corojo and its intensity dearly. 

[RijkdeGooier]

Old Montecristos are sledgehammers too. 

[MaxG]

  On 6/20/2016 at 7:47 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't know anyone who would have described CCs as anything but "intense" until the late 90s. I recall smoking Boli CEs and PSD4s from 1994-1996 that would quite literally blow your face off with intensity. The concentration of flavor was immense. Not necessarily "strong," but the word I just keep coming back to is "intense." I know there aren't too many here who have much experience smoking CCs during that era, but I'm hoping the few that do can chime in and concur.

. 

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I'm glad you wrote this.  I started smoking Cuban cigars in the mid-90's and remember BBF and BRC as being amazingly intense.  I took about a 15 year hiatus from cigars and got back into it late last year.  I still love Bolivar (and Partagas) but they are nothing like what I remember.  What you're saying makes sense.

 

- MG

 

[foursite12]

  On 6/20/2016 at 8:55 PM, MaxG said:

 

I'm glad you wrote this.  I started smoking Cuban cigars in the mid-90's and remember BBF and BRC as being amazingly intense.  I took about a 15 year hiatus from cigars and got back into it late last year.  I still love Bolivar (and Partagas) but they are nothing like what I remember.  What you're saying makes sense.

 

- MG

 

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Completely agree. Intensity, yes--and wrappers really mattered.

[laficion]

Hi there,

  On 6/20/2016 at 7:47 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't know anyone who would have described CCs as anything but "intense" until the late 90s. I recall smoking Boli CEs and PSD4s from 1994-1996 that would quite literally blow your face off with intensity. The concentration of flavor was immense. Not necessarily "strong," but the word I just keep coming back to is "intense." I know there aren't too many here who have much experience smoking CCs during that era, but I'm hoping the few that do can chime in and concur.

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Dear NSXCIGAR,

I  remember those Bolivar Gold Medals. They were so strong that you couldn't smoke one Inside for they would

stink up the house if you did. Partagas were very stong also with Punch and RyJ and the others

smoked different also.

Guy

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

  On 6/20/2016 at 8:37 PM, RijkdeGooier said:

Old Montecristos are sledgehammers too. 

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Indeed. Monte has always had a medium-strong profile, but the pre-96 Monte 2 was an absolute powerhouse. There's no way a novice or anyone that preferred a milder blend could deal with it. It was even a bit too strong for me in the Monte profile. In fact, I never was a Monte fan in general until Habana 2000, and even then I found Monte quality poor until around 03-04.

I would actually go so far as to say the same for Cohiba. The Linea Clasica was actually quite strong in the old days, hence the introduction of the milder Siglo line which actually replaced the Davidoff Chateau series which was very, very mild and refined for Cuban standards. From what I've heard over the years, many of the Davidoff Chateau series still around are now bland as hell. All of the Classic Line Cohibas were very rich and powerful. The Robusto was probably the mildest of the Linea Clasica with very rich wood and tobacco flavors. The Esplendido was a just a beast with flavor just pouring out from every puff.

I do have to say, however, that IMHO, Habana 2000s biggest success is Montecristo. Production numbers for Monte being what they are, I'm continually impressed by the presence of flavor and relative strength that current Montes have. There are many, many other marcas that fall far short generally in these terms. HSA seems to have done a very good job preserving the classic Monte flavors--the cocoa and coffee beans, the citrus tanginess--that were definitely present in 80s and 90s Montes. The #2 is obviously an exception--new production isn't close to old. But the 1,3-5 and Especiales do hold up.  And the dud ratio is surprisingly low for Monte these days--most 14-15 production is approaching blind buy status for me.

Again, the biggest casualty of the Corojo is Bolivar. That tobacco was just made for that brand. Heavy raw earth, rich raisins and dried fruit, concentrated citric acid, perfect spiciness...sigh. 

[Smallclub]

  On 6/20/2016 at 7:47 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

 

 The heavy earthiness and citric acid flavors were the most prominent in those brands.

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To be honest I really don't miss these "citric acid" flavours. They were still  present in late 90/early 2000's Partagas lonsdales and it's precisely why I wasn't a fan of this cigar. I prefered the corona in cab 50; more earthy…

I remember the pre 98 Lusitania, I hardly could smoke the last third without getting sick… And yes the Monte 2 was a real sledgehammer!

[NSXCIGAR]

  On 6/20/2016 at 10:50 PM, Smallclub said:

To be honest I really don't miss these "citric acid" flavours. They were still  present in late 90/early 2000's Partagas lonsdales and it's precisely why I wasn't a fan of this cigar. I prefered the corona in cab 50; more earthy…

I remember the pre 98 Lusitania, I hardly could smoke the last third without getting sick… And yes the Monte 2 was a real sledgehammer!

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The Party Corona 50 cab was my favorite Partagas as well--I also preferred the earthy over the citric acid. Seleccion Privada No.1 also was a favorite of mine when I could get them (luckily LCDH always seemed to have them.) I liked the citrus in moderation, as many Punch models had it, but it could overwhelm the profile easily. I actually preferred the Lonsdales in DB for that reason.

And yes, Lusis were total headknockers, as was the PSD4, which I agree with MRN that they were essentially Lusis in Robusto format.

My favorite cigar of that era (and all time) was the Corojo Boli RC. Less citric, more wood and earth, very rich and consistent as hell. The CE and CG were a bit much for me most times and I needed to be in the right mood to do battle with those cigars. The RC was the ultimate everyday smoke for me.

[vinnyvega]

Just finished a 01/98 Punch DC walking around Provincetown.

The boys faces were priceless.

[NSXCIGAR]

  On 6/21/2016 at 12:31 AM, tommygun68 said:

From what I've read you can add Rafael Gonzalez to the list of great Corojo cigars pre 96

RG & Boli are said to be the 2 most devastated by the loss of Corojo

Unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of  pre-96 cigars but maybe thats a good thing

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Just my opinion, but I was never particularly impressed with RG compared to other marcas, even in the old days. I kind of put it in the same category as Sancho, SLR, QDo, JL, etc. They were good, and had their following and unique characteristics, but were never top-tier smokes, particularly in terms of intensity. It was the fuller-flavored, stronger marcas that really took the brunt of it--Boli, Party, Punch, many RyJ, Cohiba certainly. I would not put RG in the category of Corojo casualty to the same degree as those others, at least in my experience and memory.

The caveat of course being I'd take a 1994 RG Lonsdale over just about any recent CC, but in the mid-90s and prior, there were better choices for those looking for a blockbuster smoke.

Having only been smoking CCs for 3 or 4 years when the great shift came, I do feel the rug was pulled right out from under me. The thing I fell in love with initially was gone, so maybe you are lucky to never have tried them!

[maxcjs0101]

If Habanos realized the interest people had with the older tobacco, they'd create a new Cohiba line with "El Corojo" filler, put them in fancy boxes and sell them at $400 for 10 sticks.

[cigaraholic]

For me the brand that changed the most is Upmann. They used to taste like walking thru a forest after it rained, now they're shortbread cookies.

[Fugu]

  On 6/20/2016 at 9:07 PM, laficion said:

I  remember those Bolivar Gold Medals. They were so strong that you couldn't smoke one Inside for they would

stink up the house if you did. Partagas were very stong also with Punch and RyJ and the others

smoked different also.

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... and a SS1 you could still taste foul in your mouth four days after smoking....nice.

Count me in the camp of those being very sorry about the loss of vitolas, but not too much missing the good old times with regard to tobacco. But this is a personal thing, I admit, the newer strains just seem to suit my tastes better, I don't like too much strength and overpowering in a cigar.

But everything only a shadow of its former self, due to the loss of old Corojo? Sorry guys, I don't buy it. Think about Partagas Serie du Connaisseur prior to its discontinuation, just as one example. Boli Esp. No. 2 ER, La Escepcion SF - secretly made with Corojo leaf? It seems it still is possible to blend intense smokes without it. And Corojo has been used predominantly for the wrapper anyway, and we perhaps have to attribute the reported changes rather to the replacement of the old Criollo strains (which had been in use since end of the 1940s) by Criollo 98 and 99?

I haven't smoked a very wide array of the pre-1998 production, but I am happy, and I guess even happier with how it is today.

Espis, Lanceros, SLR Church, DC, or even Cazzies (in partic. '03, '09) just to mention a few, have all been excellent and intense cigars even later. The Boli line has changed - true. But I much prefer the "modern" version. 07/08 CEs are just perfect smokes for me. The CG is my go-to Church, and the CJ my bread and butter short smoke. Love them, love their intensity and balance, don't want them different.

As HSA has announced recently, we will see new strains coming in shortly. Let's hope that these won't change anything to the worse.

[LordAnubis]

All this talk about strong flavours. Question, what were you doing while trying not to die smoking these things? Was the smoking culture different before? More smokers smoking by themselves? Or still a group affair as it is today?

I've never tried what you guys speak of, while i do have a few boxes of bolivars and Hupmans from mid 80s i have no idea what tobacco they are rolled with. I don't like a mild cigar, i like a full bodied cigar. I tend towards Bolivars and RA and Upmann (milder than my liking but i enjoy the flavour profile). However, i dont think i'd enjoy them any fuller than they currently are.

The thing i like about cigars at the moment is that you don't really have to age them too much (why buy something that you need to put down for 10 years before you can smoke enjoyably) and that they are strong enough to notice, but not strong enough that it takes your concentration away from a conversation. Because ultimately for me cigars are about the company you are in, and not all about the cigar in your hand.

[ChanceSchmerr]

I've only had a smattering of pre-97 cigars, and even then they were over 15 years old, so I obviously can't comment too much on the dramatic difference people are mentioning - but I do wish I had been old enough to have smoked some of these head-banger cigars folks are mentioning.  Count me among those who loves an intense cigar - not necessarily a strong cigar, but intense, with lots of flavour and depth.  I find myself getting increasingly frustrated and bored with a few lines these days, where the mild creaminess has no depth or force to really keep me engaged. Hoyo de Monterrey and RG are nearly dead to me (except those delightful RG Perlas).

My question is - Did Corojo have superior aging qualities as well, such that it's even worth it to heavily search out pre-97 cigars to taste the flavour?  Or are they mellowed out to the point where they are good but the head-banging strength is gone, never to be seen again?

Last year in London I tried what was one of my long-standing White Whales - an early 90s Ramon Allones Gigantes.  I had wanted to try one for years, having heard so much about their blockbuster strength and robust deep flavour.  It was shocking - Floral and medium bodied at most.  No evidence of great power.  I know it was stored meticulously, so I was left wondering what the hell had happened to all that power?

[Orion21]

This discussion is so interesting because all of these attributes you all are associating with this Corojo leaf makes me think of Non-Cuban cigars from 2005-2013/14.  If you are into the Non-Cuban scene NC producers would advertise their cigars that were made with Cuban seed Corojo.  Now, the NC production process is much different than the Cuban process because many NC producers got in the habit of aging their leaf much longer than Cuba.  But the attributes you are discussing remind me so much of NC cigars from that time period.  Just strong in your face smokes.  

However, what I find most interesting is that I LOVE Fuente Opus X and Anejo cigars. To me they taste very similar to Cuban blends I love so much.  So for fun I googled Fuente Opus X.  I clicked on a link for the  Fuente Fuente OpusX ForbiddenX cigar and what did I find:

• Wrapper: Dominican Chateau de la Fuente Sun Grown Corojo