Cheater gets suspended.

[westg]

37 minutes ago, MIKA27 said:

Yes but on a simple example so does consuming Protein. It helps muscle recover and grow, should that also be illegal? 

Yes it does aid in recovery from a normal biological standpoint , along with a shit load of vitamins and supplements you can purchase over the counter ., so it (protein ) should not be banned ..but nowhere near the rate of banned substances such as this.  .. Anabolic steroids were initially created  to increase recovery for other things not related to sport . Since then athletes still push the margins to what can be legally taken.... good example Essendon . Its not necessarily what you take on the day ....its what you have been taking  months before hand to get you there .in Sharapovas case years .

[wabashcr]

I will say that even if she was taking it for performance-based reasons, I see nothing wrong with that at all, even immediately prior to the banning of the substance. Athletes take all kinds of supplements, vitamins and chemicals. Always have, always will. Their only responsibility is to avoid those substances specifically banned. Staying one step ahead of the authorities, to me, would be attempting to conceal the taking of already banned substances. Lance Armstrong, for example, was staying one step ahead of the authorities.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but public perception isn't always so cut and dry. I don't think what she did was comparable to Lance Armstrong. But it's not a good look for an athlete when they are linked to dodgy substances that end up banned, especially if you are using it for off-label performance enhancement. I think if she was honest about why she was using it, right or wrong, she was afraid it would taint her accomplishments.

The only explanation I can see for hiding her use is because she felt she was doing something wrong, even if it's not illegal. A guilty conscience isn't enough to convict her in court, but it's telling nonetheless.

[Ken Gargett]

9 minutes ago, wabashcr said:

 

The only explanation I can see for hiding her use is because she felt she was doing something wrong, even if it's not illegal. A guilty conscience isn't enough to convict her in court, but it's telling nonetheless.

i haven't followed it all very closely but if i were defending her and this was alleged, the simple response is that top sportspeople are not going to let competitors in on their secrets. she could well have thought it legal but didn't want others to know she was taking it as she wants to keep things like training/diet/supplements etc etc, all secret from competitors. if i was an elite competitor, i would want to keep my secrets to myself. may be nothing to do with it being illegal. she may have genuinely believed it legal and still hid it for good reasons. 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i haven't followed it all very closely but if i were defending her and this was alleged, the simple response is that top sportspeople are not going to let competitors in on their secrets. she could well have thought it legal but didn't want others to know she was taking it as she wants to keep things like training/diet/supplements etc etc, all secret from competitors. if i was an elite competitor, i would want to keep my secrets to myself. may be nothing to do with it being illegal. she may have genuinely believed it legal and still hid it for good reasons. 

I would think there's some merit to that. In this case, meldonium was a widely used drug than entire sports teams were evidently taking, ostensibly for performance reasons. Not really a secret in the sports world. That's why it doesn't make much sense for her to conceal it--or even feel guilty about using it--for over a decade, concealing it from even from her personal team of physicians and handlers who would have no incentive to share any info with her competition.

The things that don't make sense in the story don't make sense for the right reasons. There's clearly some untruth going on, but I'm not sure if it was just a half-assed attempt at damage control or a straight cover-up. Either way, it looks terrible for her now, and her career is probably toast, not to mention she's now lost a bunch of major endorsements, which for an athlete in the twilight years is probably far more important. Either she's disastrously careless and dumb or she's a cheater...or both.

[Ken Gargett]

just tried to read up a little bit on this.

part of her defence was that she could lose a great deal of money? holy crap. seriously? that alone should have her banned for decades. i can't believe she actually said that. how out of touch are these people? 

but as for intentional or not, this was part of the judgement - “The contravention of the anti-doping rules was not intentional as Ms Sharapova did not appreciate that Mildronate, which contains meldonium, contained a substance prohibited from 1 January 2016. However she does bear sole responsibility for the contravention, and very significant fault, in failing to take any steps to check whether the continued use of this medicine was permissible,” it ruled. “If she had not concealed her use of Mildronate from the anti-doping authorities, members of her own support team and the doctors whom she consulted, but had sought advice, then the contravention would have been avoided.”

In precis, the tribunal ruled that taking the substance regularly at the Australian Open effectively proved that she did not know it had been banned. But it found that she was at “very significant fault” by failing to ascertain whether the drug was on the prohibited list.

 

for me, it should be strict liability. you take it then you get banned. though they have to know and it is reasonable to put the onus on the athlete. but i think also that the authority should be responsible for making the information available. they say it was put up on the website. this would be just before the tournament started. if you have used something openly for ten years (though openly might be debatable), is it not reasonable to assume it still is unless there is fair notice? do they have to check the website every day? i don't know there is an easy answer.

but she was taking 30 different drugs a day. all of them were legal, except that just before the tournament, one of the 30 was made illegal. to me, that suggests (idiocy for taking so many drugs) that she was shovelling legal drugs down her throat but she did not have any history (certainly none we know of) of taking anything illegal.  

as bizarre as it seems, that she continued to take it regularly during a grand slam tournament probably does suggest she did not realise. but strict liability...

[NSXCIGAR]

The more I think about the chain of events and her explanation the less I understand what the hell she was doing. I get that if she didn't think Mildronate contained meldonium, she would have dismissed the content of the emails. But she claims she never saw the emails! And why on earth would she conceal the taking of any medications from her team? If she knew what she was doing, she'd know meldonium was legal, and thus had no reason whatsoever to conceal it. I'm sure she has a nutritionist, trainer, etc. and would think they'd have asked her repeatedly what meds she took.

And to top it off, as Ken mentioned, she uses the money defense!

I give up, she's a bimbo--who knows what's in this girl's head.

[westg]

35 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The more I think about the chain of events and her explanation the less I understand what the hell she was doing. I get that if she didn't think Mildronate contained meldonium, she would have dismissed the content of the emails. But she claims she never saw the emails! And why on earth would she conceal the taking of any medications from her team? If she knew what she was doing, she'd know meldonium was legal, and thus had no reason whatsoever to conceal it. I'm sure she has a nutritionist, trainer, etc. and would think they'd have asked her repeatedly what meds she took.

And to top it off, as Ken mentioned, she uses the money defense!

I give up, she's a bimbo--who knows what's in this girl's head.

Surely she would have a list of what she is taking and someone from her entourage, from what I have read is one of the biggest in tennis ...would check that is ok before every tournament .  

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, westg said:

Surely she would have a list of what she is taking and someone from her entourage, from what I have read is one of the biggest in tennis ...would check that is ok before every tournament .  

westie, you'd think so but human incompetence...

no doubt there'd be a list. but who had it and who was supposed to check and so on. sounds like chaos. lot of people dropping the ball. 

[westg]

2 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

westie, you'd think so but human incompetence...

no doubt there'd be a list. but who had it and who was supposed to check and so on. sounds like chaos. lot of people dropping the ball. 

I guess so Ken  ..if that's all she was taking (medication) maybe they thought their wasn't  any need to check . If you had been paying someone to check this sort of stuff ..she would be furious ...and really unable to blame her own team...I suppose the way she has gone about it ..is the only way she could of . Two years a bit stiff ?

[Mattygukas]

I have a new punishment for her, she has to play the next year naked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, westg said:

I guess so Ken  ..if that's all she was taking (medication) maybe they thought their wasn't  any need to check . If you had been paying someone to check this sort of stuff ..she would be furious ...and really unable to blame her own team...I suppose the way she has gone about it ..is the only way she could of . Two years a bit stiff ?

westie, i honestly don't know.

i like the concept of strict liability for taking anything banned. but i can see the argument if it is a cock-up or there has been a change in the rules like this which really does not seem to have been communicated at all well. but if you insist on strict liability then you have to know that there will be a serious upgrade in supervision by your team. and if there is not, tough. 

always liked her interviews - she could be brutally honest "i played like a hippo on ice" was a great quote. and worse things to do than watch her running around. but i will not miss that grunt. how the hell that is not banned??? 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 minute ago, westg said:

I guess so Ken  ..if that's all she was taking (medication) maybe they thought their wasn't  any need to check . If you had been paying someone to check this sort of stuff ..she would be furious ...and really unable to blame her own team...I suppose the way she has gone about it ..is the only way she could of . Two years a bit stiff ?

I don't know, I think knowing every substance that goes into her body is something a trainer/nutritionist/doctor of a top athlete in a sport where drug testing is prioritized is not something they would neglect.

Athletes want to and do take all sorts of things they know nothing about. Her team is supposed to advise her. If she had told her team she was taking Mildronate they would have informed her immediately it contained a banned substance and to stop immediately. No trainer or sports doctor worth a damn would have neglected to ask her for a complete list of all medications being taken. I believe she withheld the info before I believe they never asked her.

As for neither her or any member of her team opening the emails or responding to the notice of updated banned substances, I'm at a loss. If you are taking drugs or supplements of any kind and participate in a drug-tested sport, you and your team MUST be acutely aware of what's banned and what is in the substances you consume.

Quite simply, her stated explanation, if true, is inexcusable, and indicates a level of foolishness and stupidity that boggles the mind. 

[Fuzz AI]

All this bruhaha over a little doping. Make it fair and let everyone dope. Then it just comes down to who has better finances to buy drugs.

I'm just waiting for a bigger scandal, eg the first pre-op tranny plays on the WPT, but gets banned for using "non-regulation balls"...

[Ken Gargett]

38 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

All this bruhaha over a little doping. Make it fair and let everyone dope. Then it just comes down to who has better finances to buy drugs.

I'm just waiting for a bigger scandal, eg the first pre-op tranny plays on the WPT, but gets banned for using "non-regulation balls"...

and i get dumped as a mod!!

[David88]

I imagine it must be hard to keep track of what is legal and illegal, but then these top athletes are paid enough and employ people to have no excuses. Unfortunately any form of doping/taking performance enhancing drugs will make people question past achievements.

Saying that, i cant be the only person who would have a secret desire to see a doping olympics? Just imagine a sub 5 second 100m or a 15m long jump. Sadly it would be the only way of ensuring a level playing field.

[ayepatz]

I think they should legalise all performance enhancing drugs, and watch the  records tumble! Lol

Maybe they could combine it with drugs and genetic testing.

"For the benefit of mankind", of course. Not because it would be amusing to watch asexual simians taking over sports. Not that.

[wabashcr]

I don't want to defend WADA or any other incompetent anti-doping authorities.  I have no doubt they could handle situations like this in a more constructive manner.  But it's worth noting that Meldonium was on the WADA watch list in 2015, so the banning didn't come out of nowhere.  Meldonium use was pretty common among athletes, especially in Russia and eastern Europe.  It's actually not approved in the US (where Sharapova lives), and cannot be legally purchased here.  

I just can't believe she didn't know all this was happening about a drug she had to go out of her way to get from Europe, one that she hid from her doctors and trainers.  I believe she thought that since she was initially prescribed the drug for legitimate reasons (allegedly), she would be able to continue to take it under a therapeutic use exemption.  She wouldn't be the first star athlete to receive a retroactive TUE from an anti-doping body.  I think she was naive about how that works, and her advisers and attorneys changed tack after her positive test.

[joeruby]

I'm sure not going to miss her grunting 'shrieking'  that's for sure..

Always enjoyed watching her with the sound turned down

May have a new career modeling.. 

[Fosgate]

I watched the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" some time ago. I looked at performance enhancing arguments in a different light. Part of what I noticed is the people around me in the general workforce using different legal drugs, caffene, energy drinks, shots and other legal drugs to give them that extra boost through out their day. I for one am not  a regular coffee, energy drink, big soda etc drinker so I'm not running around my day like a speed freak like some coworkers. Yet those same coworkers will express how in a professional environment of athletes that athletes should all me on  the same level. That to me seems hypocritical when they themselves are artificially boosting their own performance over their peers. I really cannot judge those athletes in their world of their choices to "cheat" or stay in their profession as long as possible. If I was worried about my performance over others I would take the steps by any means necessary to keep my career I have worked so hard for so long. 

 

[Blazer]

Earlier in the week I heard a report on ESPN that while she was originally prescribed the drug by a doctor, she did not have one for her most recent doses. Oh, and her pretty face and smile have helped her keep her contract with Nike.

[Colt45]

1 hour ago, Fosgate said:

Part of what I noticed is the people around me in the general workforce using different legal drugs, caffene, energy drinks, shots and other legal drugs to give them that extra boost through out their day. Yet those same coworkers will express how in a professional environment of athletes that athletes should all me on  the same level. That to me seems hypocritical when they themselves are artificially boosting their own performance over their peers.

Obviously I can't know, but I imagine your co-workers could do their jobs and achieve their work related goals without abusing stimulants. I personally do not believe people like Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire - pretty much any professional bodybuilder, etc, could do the same without abusing PEDs.

A cup of coffee to wake up / stay awake can't rationally be compared to drugs which enable one to reach a state they could not reach without said drugs.

 

[Fosgate]

Place I worked in the past, people were working 10-14 hr days and going home doing their family chores and not going to sleep until midnight and waking up 4:30-6am and going through it all over. Start out the day loading up with caffeine or whatever they got a Dr to prescribe for them and go at it all over. Me, I'm sensitive to caffeine therefore I avoid it and it sucks when I see coworkers able to dive right in and I'm still dragging ass. Days they forget their coffee they are the same or worse as they are craving their morning glory. May not make that big of a deal in some offices but in a corporate sales environment competition is everywhere and not meeting or exceeding goals is often severe. 

I recall one woman that was the top performer and us managers wish we had a team full of her clones. She was always focused, talking quickly and just a firecracker. I thought it was because of the two large cans of Monster Energy Drink she brought in each day. We noticed she seemed to have a positive impact in the numbers of the people she associated with and we found out soon why. Police raided her house and found over 20lbs of Meth and $300K in cash. over 20 people were arrested including other employees. After she left there was a definite drop in stats of the people she use to associate with. Obviously she was selling to them. Many left the company while others resorted to other legal and illegal drugs to enhance their performance. The culture pushed people into behaving that way, (we had no drug screening and we put the pressure to perform on them). Sure they got paid as much as an executive or more as a front line sales rep but when we put the squeeze that you make the floor average of a two week cycle or your written up and three write ups within 6 months will get you fired forces people to work insane hours and take desperate measures. Not many places if any at the time would pay a young person, with or without a college degree, the regions annual median household income in a month. 

Far as harmful effects of drugs and trying to ball them into one category as you mention is absurd. I've watched college athletes avoid taking cold medicine or taking prescription meds for health issues in fear of setting off the screeners and loosing their scholarships. So while the rest of us can make ourselves comfortable during illness, athletes are forbidden and are forced to risk further personal health issues or risk their career. 

Saying caffeine is no big deal is like a weightlifter saying creatine (post workout recovery) or the drug she just got caught with to others is no big deal. 

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, Fosgate said:

Place I worked in the past, people were working 10-14 hr days and going home doing their family chores and not going to sleep until midnight and waking up 4:30-6am and going through it all over. Start out the day loading up with caffeine or whatever they got a Dr to prescribe for them and go at it all over. Me, I'm sensitive to caffeine therefore I avoid it and it sucks when I see coworkers able to dive right in and I'm still dragging ass. Days they forget their coffee they are the same or worse as they are craving their morning glory. May not make that big of a deal in some offices but in a corporate sales environment competition is everywhere and not meeting or exceeding goals is often severe. 

I recall one woman that was the top performer and us managers wish we had a team full of her clones. She was always focused, talking quickly and just a firecracker. I thought it was because of the two large cans of Monster Energy Drink she brought in each day. We noticed she seemed to have a positive impact in the numbers of the people she associated with and we found out soon why. Police raided her house and found over 20lbs of Meth and $300K in cash. over 20 people were arrested including other employees. After she left there was a definite drop in stats of the people she use to associate with. Obviously she was selling to them. Many left the company while others resorted to other legal and illegal drugs to enhance their performance. The culture pushed people into behaving that way, (we had no drug screening and we put the pressure to perform on them). Sure they got paid as much as an executive or more as a front line sales rep but when we put the squeeze that you make the floor average of a two week cycle or your written up and three write ups within 6 months will get you fired forces people to work insane hours and take desperate measures. Not many places if any at the time would pay a young person, with or without a college degree, the regions annual median household income in a month. 

Far as harmful effects of drugs and trying to ball them into one category as you mention is absurd. I've watched college athletes avoid taking cold medicine or taking prescription meds for health issues in fear of setting off the screeners and loosing their scholarships. So while the rest of us can make ourselves comfortable during illness, athletes are forbidden and are forced to risk further personal health issues or risk their career. 

Saying caffeine is no big deal is like a weightlifter saying creatine (post workout recovery) or the drug she just got caught with to others is no big deal. 

really interesting stuff. it is an area that has so many double standards and bizarre results from and for those who police it and those policed. 

drugs to assist in the workplace? i could really do with something to help me get up early. hate it (unless fishing or flying involved, i really struggle). but then at midnight, i have the energy of a five year old. my "natural" hours would be up sometime after midday and bed around 5-6am. but sadly the world interferes and i have to work to its schedule. but at uni studying, when i could always schedule lectures for early evening or late arvo and then study late, often not starting till round 10, they were my hours. dad and i would often cross paths - him going to work and me to bed. drove him insane. 

working for myself, as a writer, drugs are effectively irrelevant. thinking back to working as a lawyer, most firms i know would have had a very low tolerance to drugs in the workplace - the dangers of a wrong decision and the impact that taking drugs could have had on the firm's insurance and indemnity would demand nothing less. personally, i'd have been scared of making a wrong decision (tough enough clean) though there were plenty of times that i would have loved something to keep me going, especially when we had to go 24 hours straight. or longer. but i'd have been too concerned about what might have happened coming down. coffee it was. 

[Fuzz AI]

8 hours ago, Fosgate said:

Place I worked in the past, people were working 10-14 hr days and going home doing their family chores and not going to sleep until midnight and waking up 4:30-6am and going through it all over.

Sounds perfectly normal to me. Then again, I'm an insomniac.

[LeafLover]

I don't mean to change the subject...but...lately I've had my doubts about Djokovic and his meteoric rise and dominance at the top for this long.  It's quite extraordinary.