CaptainQuintero Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Or maybe the incredibly micromanaged and heavily orchestrated moment when they have a big hand shake in front of the world's media will take place somewhere meaningful and pre-selected not on some tarmac in the pouring rain? 4
ElPuro Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I think this is a great discussion, but think there is a much bigger question here: Who checks the president's luggage to ensure he isn't taking back more than his quota of cigars? 3
JohnS Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I think this is a great discussion, but think there is a much bigger question here: Who checks the president's luggage to ensure he isn't taking back more than his quota of cigars? You'd think that the 1961 Vienna Convention for Diplomatic Relations would preclude Heads of State from having their luggage checked? (Due to the prosecution immunity laws.)
MPS Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/03/20/obama-cuba-trip/ "Wielding an umbrella on a rainy Havana afternoon, Obama and his family stepped off of Air Force One and were greeted by top Cuban officials — but not Raul Castro. The Cuban leader frequently greets major world figures upon their arrival at Jose Marti International Airport, but was absent on the tarmac. Instead, he planned to greet Obama on Monday at the Palace of the Revolution."
JoeyW Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 How many box could he fit in air force one you think?? I bet ya we won t see any behike for a while lol
Popular Post Ken Gargett Posted March 21, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 21, 2016 i do understand it is an extremely sensitive issue for many people and especially those of cuban heritage. i am also not and have never been in any way supportive of communism anywhere. i've made around ten visits to cuba, some for 2-3 weeks in length and at times been able to stay with cuban friends. and had many many long discussions with them and many cubans from all walks - and this is something that they themselves are far from in agreement. all that doesn't make me an expert but it has given me some insight into some of the thoughts of the people on the island. (one small thing - israel may support the USA in the UN votes, no doubt for their own self-interest, but in practice, they are very active in business on the island). as i said, multiple reasons for what happens (here and elsewhere) and cuban govt policies have undoubtedly been a major contributor to the damage done to the island and the people. but so is the embargo, which has for decades been maintained for little more than a matter of hurt pride by the states. it is a truly despicable, disgraceful policy that has achieved nothing other than pain to the cuban people, helped maintain the very government the americans profess to oppose and brought ridicule on the states. it is indefensible, as has been many of the actions of the cuban govt. as for not meeting at the airport, i cannot believe that anyone is genuinely fussed about this. when our PM recently met obama, it was at the white house. i doubt he felt insulted and nor do i think any single australian felt insulted. international diplomacy is largely worked out behind the scenes well in advance. this would have been agreed months ago and both parties would have approved it. i can only assume that if anyone wants to use this as some sort of slur on either side then they have an agenda that is not favourable to the success of this visit. and if where they meet is the best they can do then they have become a bit desperate. the suggestion that this is all about what is being done by obama in cuba's favour is beyond baffling to me. obama is attempting to right a wrong perpetrated by his country, for decades. i just don't buy this concept that some seem to have that cuba and their leaders should come crawling cap in hand oozing gratitude because the self-appointed master has finally stopped whipping the dog. finally, i should say that in relation to the issue of respect, i am attacking/opposed to (whatever words anyone prefers) the position, not the person - i have plenty of mates and we have huge disagreements about all manner of things, large and small, but it does not affect friendships. if others choose to interpret things differently, that is up to them. 5
Popular Post Smallclub Posted March 21, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 21, 2016 I wonder if Obama is sufficiently "connected" to be able to get boxes of Diplomaticos Excelencia Cuban RE? 7
Popular Post Fuzz Posted March 21, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 21, 2016 How many box could he fit in air force one you think?? I bet ya we won t see any behike for a while lol I wonder if Obama is sufficiently "connected" to be able to get boxes of Diplomaticos Excelencia Cuban RE? Obama is a flipper! That's how he plans to fix the US deficit! 5
PapaDisco Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I'm gonna vote for the side that says central planning has been the biggest blight on the Cuban economy. Cuba is a very small country with a very small population. Ending the U.S. embargo is not going to make it an export/manufacturing powerhouse. It will make a few island oligarchs very rich, and the rest will end up pandering in poverty to twice as many tourists unless the economy becomes a free market one, with respect for property and an independent judiciary equal in weight and strength to the executive. How they do that, after generations of dictatorship is the near-impossible task. Anyway, it was big of Obama to go to Cuba anyway, even if Raul makes him cool his heels in the hotel cigar lounge for a day!
El Presidente Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I'm gonna vote for the side that says central planning has been the biggest blight on the Cuban economy. I vote in that it was equal billing The Cuban Govt would run out of lemonades for a lemonade stand. However: The embargo banning non US companies who dealt with Cuba from commercially dealing in the US made the embargo quasi global. This came to the fore in the area of international banking where Cuba (govt and private business), were unable to access traditional lines of bank money transfer. Anyone who has tried sending funds from say Europe to Cuba knows the drama.
El Presidente Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 As for not meeting up at the airport......it would of been worked out months ago you would think. They will be best friend at Mondays meeting
MPS Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 How does the Melia hotel group do business inside Cuba and the US? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
joeskow Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Well Ken your views may change when a country 90 miles away requests your biggest adversary at the time to deploy dozens of ICBM's and point them directly at you.. At least the US is trying to restore relations, ask Turkey and Russia how their relationship is going? I'm an American and our **** stinks just like everyone else's. I'm not saying the US is right but come on man it's not like we are talking about spilt milk here, as you said this is still a very sensitive discussion. The blame should be on Communism and the Castro regime not the US.. We never have and never will support any Communist party and for good reason. 4
ElPuro Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 There were many good reasons for the embargo initially, both militarily and economically (how about nationalizing US companies with no compensation). It's important to remember that while we citizens (both sides) are of course affected by it the most, this is a complex issue between governments, supposedly in our best interests (both sides). Simply blaming the length of the impasse on the United States or on Cuba is a facile way of looking at the world and foreign policy. 2
nav4040 Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 How does the Melia hotel group do business inside Cuba and the US? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Operated as separate entities. Melia Cuba and Melia America for properties in Mexico etc. Spanish chain that has figured out the loop holes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MPS Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Operated as separate entities. Melia Cuba and Melia America for properties in Mexico etc. Spanish chain that has figured out the loop holes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Doesn't seem that hard. I guess it's all about the company deciding if the profits are worth the risk. I think the banking issue was a more recent result of the patriot act and Cuba being on the state sponsor of terrorism list, not the embargo. Since they are no longer on that list it shouldn't be much of an issue going forward. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mygar Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Well Ken your views may change when a country 90 miles away requests your biggest adversary at the time to deploy dozens of ICBM's and point them directly at you.. At least the US is trying to restore relations, ask Turkey and Russia how their relationship is going? I'm an American and our **** stinks just like everyone else's. I'm not saying the US is right but come on man it's not like we are talking about spilt milk here, as you said this is still a very sensitive discussion. The blame should be on Communism and the Castro regime not the US.. We never have and never will support any Communist party and for good reason. Well put... tired of the american bashing... we mean well and are arguably the most giving country in the world. Time to take care of our own. Let the critics stand up and address the world problems with their money and lives. And mind you... i dont not agree with all of our foreign policies... especially middle east.... but clearly we stand up for human rights around the world. And have spent more money and blood fighting for it.
El Presidente Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Doesn't seem that hard. I guess it's all about the company deciding if the profits are worth the risk. I think the banking issue was a more recent result of the patriot act and Cuba being on the state sponsor of terrorism list, not the embargo. Since they are no longer on that list it shouldn't be much of an issue going forward. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Part one of what you said is correct. Why run the risk antagonising the largest market in the world over a degraded market of 11 million people. No brainer. The banking issue goes back to well before the Patriot Act. It was regulated (to the best of my knowledge) by Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the United States Department of the Treasury.
Popular Post CaptainQuintero Posted March 21, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 21, 2016 We never have and never will support any Communist party and for good reason. The short man at the back just shouted out China for some reason 5
Popular Post CaptainQuintero Posted March 21, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 21, 2016 but clearly we stand up for human rights around the world. And have spent more money and blood fighting for it.This isn't limited to the US, all of our Western governments care little for human rights, in fact mostly work against them. We prop up despots and dictators, we are literally best buddies with nations with horrific human rights records and not only do we do nothing about it we actively supply said despots and dictators with as much military hardware they can afford to suppress their own people! There is no moral high ground for any of our nations in terms of human rights if cold hard cash is involved. 8
MPS Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Part one of what you said is correct. Why run the risk antagonising the largest market in the world over a degraded market of 11 million people. No brainer. The banking issue goes back to well before the Patriot Act. It was regulated (to the best of my knowledge) by Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the United States Department of the Treasury. I was going off this article I found http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSN1829040120070719 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mygar Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 This isn't limited to the US, all of our Western governments care little for human rights, in fact mostly work against them. We prop up despots and dictators, we are literally best buddies with nations with horrific human rights records and not only do we do nothing about it we actively supply said despots and dictators with as much military hardware they can afford to suppress their own people! There is no moral high ground for any of our nations in terms of human rights if cold hard cash is involved. Yes i agree to a certain point. We are not perfect but we try... and a lot of critics do nothing... cry foul and also ride on our coat tails for the benefits we provide
mygar Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I do not agree we dont care for human rights and its all about cash. I do concede we deal with dispicable people however...
El Presidente Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I would hope there is no "America bashing" going on. Policy is being debated unless I have missed something. I have never been a fan of the embargo simply because it is a dated concept. What may have been relevent 30 years ago (when national security was still an issue) doesn't stand up to recent history. Communism is a nought argument. China, Vietnam...no problems trading there. The Cuban Government have used every trick in the book to continue the embargo whenever possible. The David V Goliath story has suited their own needs. How else could you explain away the shortages, the crumbling infrastructure. Even now, while they are championing and end to the embargo.....they have given up zero, made no meaningful compromise. Real change in the lives of the Cuban people will only come about (I believe) from the ground up through the encounter of opportunity that they can readily exploit. Cuba needs to provide them the commercial tools to do so (less red tape, proper access to capital). The US can do it's part, free up the commercial limitations of the embargo. Most Cubans know they have been duped by their own masters. Give them the tools to rebuild and watch them go and rework their future (economically and politically). 3
mygar Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I would hope there is no "America bashing" going on. Policy is being debated unless I have missed something. I have never been a fan of the embargo simply because it is a dated concept. What may have been relevent 30 years ago (when national security was still an issue) doesn't stand up to recent history. Communism is a nought argument. China, Vietnam...no problems trading there. The Cuban Government have used every trick in the book to continue the embargo whenever possible. The David V Goliath story has suited their own needs. How else could you explain away the shortages, the crumbling infrastructure. Even now, while they are championing and end to the embargo.....they have given up zero, made no meaningful compromise. Real change in the lives of the Cuban people will only come about (I believe) from the ground up through the encounter of opportunity that they can readily exploit. Cuba needs to provide them the commercial tools to do so (less red tape, proper access to capital). The US can do it's part, free up the commercial limitations of the embargo. Most Cubans know they have been duped by their own masters. Give them the tools to rebuild and watch them go and rework their future (economically and politically). I guess some comments came across pretty one sided. No mention of ICMs... the world was closest its ever been to nuclear war. Thank god we had Kennedy...
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