JackFNQ Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I understand that many of my countrymen are sick of being governed from Westminster, and feel that Scotland would be better off being completely self-governed, but I am sceptical about the abilities of those who seek to govern. Well said. I'd think Scotland would be in a great place if it succeeded from England, but only if it could be governed without corruption and external influence.
Guest rob Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Good discussion, and points of view lads. It's also interesting hearing Andy's opinion, from someone who's 'been-there, done-that'. Like all big decisions relating to change, I find asking the question - "which decision will I regret most - the decision to change, or the decision not to?" a challenging one to answer.
westg Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 We should have become a republic in 1999. We are now behind the curve as a result. The whole concept of monarchy is absolutely primitive. We should adopt the Aboriginal Flag. why the Aboriginal flag ...something that represents us all as one .. 1
Jeremy Festa Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 why the Aboriginal flag ...something that represents us all as one .. Because it's the perfect flag. It 100% represents our sunburnt country while paying respect to the original inhabitants. My reference in this case would be Roman Mars from 99% Invisible and his presentation on flag design. Seriously. Look it up bro. Crazy good. Sent from my iPhone 1
Jeremy Festa Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 The republic is about redefining Australia. I'd say that prior to 1975 we were a monocultural society, think OT Ruth (foreigner different race) coming to Israel whereby 'your people will be my people...' and being accepted regardless of race, and you could also note her ancestry to Jesus in generations to come, her husband Boaz in the genealogy. A monoculture - the acceptance of any race into one national culture. Vlad Putin has said some very interesting things about this topic, and Europe. Bit too sensible for the monopoly which is our media to report. Just as a house divided against itself cannot stand, a nation of many mini-nations cannot abide in peace. Europe is turning into the next Gaza Strip. Today we have multiculturalism/globalism where everyone is living apart for themselves, gutting any sense of national identity and thereby community, sending money back home where ever that may be, and moving on when it is beneficial to do so. (Now I don't call alienating each other into little social hobby groups a community.) Such a nation is indefensible in a WW. Ironically it was the nationalism of England that gave the platform to conquer the Nazi's, yet nationalism is hissed at from every side. Like putting a hand on a woman's shoulder and rape is cried, merely talking about nationalism invokes cries of racism, and the far right. Today Anzac's and sporting heroes sadly go hand in hand, politically to somehow create some kind of identity. The people of the Anzac era would be disgusted at what Australia has become, the national interest and inheritance being thrown to the wind. I mean the loss of national interest and sense of working together for the commom good. Donald Trump says he wants to bring Apple back to manufacture within the USA. There is something that is a national interest that goes against corporate interest and globalism, like paying tax in the country where profit is earned. Presently national interest is subjugated to the benefit of the few, at the expense of the community within the commonwealth. For me community and working together for our commonwealth go hand in hand, the inheritance of which is not for strangers, but only for we a monoculture of many races working for the benefit of our children, the generations to come. That is an Anzac (era) ideal. Charity being another issue. The day Australia becomes a republic AND our flag is replaced is the day descendants of the Anzac era have nothing left to defend. There is no longer a nation worth fighting for. The CommonWealth of the people is dead and buried, the monoculture defeated. The globalism/corporate model will NEVER make a nation great. The only present world leader who speaks on these issues is Putin of all people. Anzacs defend their commonwealth community, the idea of defending a corporate multicultural globalism is repugnant to an Anzac. The republic is about redefining Australia, after the corporate globalism multicultural model. Which is all just about complete. The Queen is dead, long live the Malcolm Turnbull (insert President's name) Goldman Sacks boy! Just imo. I. Personally. Like what you say. Somewhat. But many of your analogies are far too extreme to even approach. Unless we were speaking face to face. I look forward to the day. Sent from my iPhone
Fuzz AI Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Because it's the perfect flag. It 100% represents our sunburnt country while paying respect to the original inhabitants. My reference in this case would be Roman Mars from 99% Invisible and his presentation on flag design. Seriously. Look it up bro. Crazy good. Sent from my iPhone I'd disagree with it being perfect. That flag already has history specifically linking it to the Aboriginal people. Each colour was chosen to represent specific things; black for the Aboriginal people, yellow for the Sun, and red for the land and the ochre used by Aborigines in their rituals. Don't see any of those colours representing me. If you want to include all Australians, it must be a new flag, not one already in use. 1
Jeremy Festa Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I'd disagree with it being perfect. That flag already has history specifically linking it to the Aboriginal people. Each colour was chosen to represent specific things; black for the Aboriginal people, yellow for the Sun, and red for the land and the ochre used by Aborigines in their rituals. Don't see any of those colours representing me. If you want to include all Australians, it must be a new flag, not one already in use. Totally understand where you are coming from. Has nothing to do with you. Just represents the actual country and its original inhabitants. It's not perfect. For everyone. But design wise it is. And for me, it is. Sent from my iPhone 1
Jeremy Festa Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 For everyone else's reference. Look at it. It's as Australian as you get! Sent from my iPhone
Fuzz AI Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Nah, lasts only 20 odd years and then you get the shaft.
Fuzz AI Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 For everyone else's reference. Look at it. It's as Australian as you get! Sent from my iPhone Prefer this one: 1
westg Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 fitzsimmons is a self-absorbed tool (former rugby player with far less ability than he believed he had, who writes biographies and indulges in endless self-promotion - and at a bruce concert of 30,000 people who were on their feet all night, this dill refused to get off his bum but that is another matter). The man is 2 metres tall, perhaps he was being considerate to others behind him....
IcedCanuck Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 In Canada we have a governor general who is the Queen's representative. He has powers but should he ever use them it might just be enough to get the majority of Canadians on board to finally ditch the monarchy. Most people that I personally know and have had this conversation with think the same as I. I am always dumbfounded when I hear others make a case for staying.
CaptainQuintero Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 It's a strange world, sometimes those idiosyncrasies make the world a more interesting and less bland/plastic place. Coming from a Brit, I'd say the average Brit sees Australians as the people they are most connected to out of any other nation. Everything from shared struggles in war right up to absolute hammering at sports adds to the relationship. The flack we give each other to such a ferocious degree only happens because its such a close relationship. People here genuinely see Australians as just cousins living in a much warmer country If there was some kind of horrible natural disaster I'm certain there would be not a single voice of opposition to the whole of Australia being put up here for however long they needed, it would be seem as looking after your family. I think if something happened in the UK then Oz would be top of the list of where Brits would want to go to feel safe and comfortable. There isn't any sense of superiority (Despite media portrayals) its a family feeling. I don't think ditching the Queen and changing the flag would change that relationship, and I'd bet the 'turning our back on our friends' factor is something exaggerated by the fear mongers The flag, I might feel differently if I lived in Oz, but personally I love it. It screams sunshine and happiness to me. I don't see the union jack when I look at it, the second I see it I imagine beaches and people playing in the sea in the sun. I ony ever really see the union jack if someone points it out. 3
ayepatz Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 For everyone else's reference. Look at it. It's as Australian as you get! Sent from my iPhone Very German colouring! I'm guessing that's not intentional. lol
Ken Gargett Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 The man is 2 metres tall, perhaps he was being considerate to others behind him.... westie, he is a huge man but he was seriously soft. he liked being involved in a blue - no suggestion he lacked courage - but he had no idea. he would put his head down and start swinging (i had a mate at school who did the same). so no idea where he was swinging and no idea someone was lining him up. bronwyn bishop would have been more than a match.
Ken Gargett Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Totally understand where you are coming from. Has nothing to do with you. Just represents the actual country and its original inhabitants. It's not perfect. For everyone. But design wise it is. And for me, it is. Sent from my iPhone i agree that some recognition is desirable but it makes no sense to me to adopt that flag as a whole. i think you'll find that would alienate a huge percentage of the population - not for racist reasons (though there would be that but leave them aside). most people would see it as irrelevant to them. i would. inclusion yes, in its entirity, no.
wabashcr Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I would think Aboriginal people would prefer to keep their flag for themselves. Adopting it for Australia seems like pretty clear cut cultural appropriation. While the intentions of those who advocate for this may be well meaning, I would expect the Aboriginal people would much rather have a separate flag for all of Australia.
Guest rob Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Jer, you're a great bloke, and I love that you wear your heart on your sleeve......but that flag is terrible. I feel no sense of pride or inclusion when I see it. And it's ugly.
Jeremy Festa Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Jer, you're a great bloke, and I love that you wear your heart on your sleeve......but that flag is terrible. I feel no sense of pride or inclusion when I see it. And it's ugly. Rob, you're a great bloke too, and I love that you are honest and succinct at the same time..... but shut your face. 1
Ken Gargett Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I AM IN NO WAY ON THIS GOD'S EARTH RELATED TO KEN (particularly when the crickets on) a pom living in nsw? related? spare me. have you not heard of evolution? there is no way we are related. next you'll tell me he has kiwis in the family!
MIKA27 Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Because it's the perfect flag. It 100% represents our sunburnt country while paying respect to the original inhabitants. My reference in this case would be Roman Mars from 99% Invisible and his presentation on flag design. Seriously. Look it up bro. Crazy good. Sent from my iPhone A great opinion no doubt about it and some representation must be done should we get a new flag, but why ONLY represent the original inhabitants and forget those who ARE ALL Australians from all walks of life that make up our nation? To make up and appease the Aboriginals for the wrong-doings of the past? I disagree with that.
Jeremy Festa Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 A great opinion no doubt about it and some representation must be done should we get a new flag, but why ONLY represent the original inhabitants and forget those who ARE ALL Australians from all walks of life that make up our nation? To make up and appease the Aboriginals for the wrong-doings of the past? I disagree with that. Not at all mate. I think it represents the country. And is a simple and classic design. If it makes up and appeases the Aboriginal community, which I am sure it could never do, considering what they suffered, might I add again, in relatively recent history, then I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I just think they need ultimate respect, and support. And for me, I want to fly their awesome flag, as it is the real Australia to me. 2
Ken Gargett Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Not at all mate. I think it represents the country. And is a simple and classic design. If it makes up and appeases the Aboriginal community, which I am sure it could never do, considering what they suffered, might I add again, in relatively recent history, then I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I just think they need ultimate respect, and support. And for me, I want to fly their awesome flag, as it is the real Australia to me. i consider myself just as much 'real australia' as anyone. and the same for friends and family. doesn't make any other people/group/whatever any less 'real' but i would most vehemently oppose anything - flag/national anthem/constitution/whatever - that would suggest i am not. i would like to think all australians would feel the same. as i have said, i do think there should be recognition but certainly not just adopting that flag. that makes no sense to me and i agree with the comments above that suggest the aboriginal community may not be happy if it is usurped, though i'm sure they can speak for themselves on that. surely we can have a flag that represents all australians and not just a small percentage. and i do not agree with adopting a flag simply to appease a section of the community. that does not make sense to me and will only result in more divisions in the community, not less.
Ken Gargett Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I've seen your evolution in the Mitchell Pearce thread ! Sheep and a Man on the land i can understand that, But a poodle Maybe its true that the aussie male's kahoonas are getting smaller as i said, nsw. that makes him closer to you than me! in every way.
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