Australia and the Queen

[ayepatz]

Interesting article in the Times today. I'm wondering how our Australian brethren feel about it? As a Scot, I'm interested, what with all the recent debate about independence.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/share/uuid/91aa3624-c422-11e5-98b7-d82f2e4e8a1e

[Pixa]

As a fellow scot the only thing that piqued my interest was the queen was still alive

[El Presidente]

For most Assies not a 1st order issue.

Polling shows that the vast majority of Aussies want a republic.

Polling shows that the vast majority of Aussies don't trust politicians to dictate the type of republic we have.

Politicians on all sides are against the direct election of the president.

The majority of the public want the direct election of the president.

Until the model of the Republic (and method of election of the president) is accepted by the public, a Republic is no sure thing to get up in a referendum.

[ChanceSchmerr]

I'm a staunch Royalist (my pride when we changed back to being called the Royal Canadian Navy from "Maritime Command" was absolutely immense) but have given up getting emotional about other nations and their decisions on whether to ditch their links to Her Majesty and Commonwealth (and I firmly believe that if you become a Republic, you're outta the Commonwealth, full stop. Can't have your cake and eat it too). All I'll say is that I hope any change is for the better and I think Prez's comment above captures that. It's up to each individual country to choose and I hope they make the choice that works best for them.

That said, if Canada starts talking about Republican movements.....

[ayepatz]

For most Assies not a 1st order issue.

Polling shows that the vast majority of Aussies want a republic.

Polling shows that the vast majority of Aussies don't trust politicians to dictate the type of republic we have.

Politicians on all sides are against the direct election of the president.

The majority of the public want the direct election of the president.

Until the model of the Republic (and method of election of the president) is accepted by the public, a Republic is no sure thing to get up in a referendum.

So it would seem that your politicians are trying to push for a change, just not the change that most Australians would like?

It's an interesting parallel to Scotland. Yes, there is an undeniable appetite for independence, but the ultimate form that would take seems to be where voters and politicians differ.

[ayepatz]

I'm a staunch Royalist (my pride when we changed back to being called the Royal Canadian Navy from "Maritime Command" was absolutely immense) but have given up getting emotional about other nations and their decisions on whether to ditch their links to Her Majesty and Commonwealth (and I firmly believe that if you become a Republic, you're outta the Commonwealth, full stop. Can't have your cake and eat it too). All I'll say is that I hope any change is for the better and I think Prez's comment above captures that. It's up to each individual country to choose and I hope they make the choice that works best for them.

That said, if Canada starts talking about Republican movements.....:mob:

Apologies my friend, I hadn't considered the Canadian viewpoint, but, of course, you guys have experienced all of this as well. I'm also interested in hearing what our Canadian members, and, naturally, members from any country with existing or former ties to the UK feel about it.

[HarveyBoulevard]

I think we voiced our opinion regarding our ties to the UK a while ago.

[Jeremy Festa]

We should have become a republic in 1999. We are now behind the curve as a result.

The whole concept of monarchy is absolutely primitive.

We should adopt the Aboriginal Flag.

[Warren]

I wouldn't call myself a royalist. I like the sense of history and admire the Queens dedication to service. At the end of the day I don't believe that it will make one single bit of difference to either Australia or Her Majesty. This subject gets trotted out every couple of years. People call for referenda so a decision can be made and it always fails. A referendum is not an inconsiderable cost to the country and for Australia to waste the many millions it would cost on this side issue is just foolish. There are many other pressing issues that this country faces that need front and center attention.

This is just a distraction trotted out by failing politicians to make you look away from their shortcomings.

And lets face it Fitzsimons is a self absorbed tool.

[Fuzz AI]

President Lim has a nice ring to it...

[Ken Gargett]

warren has nailed the main problem at the moment. fitzsimmons is a self-absorbed tool (former rugby player with far less ability than he believed he had, who writes biographies and indulges in endless self-promotion - and at a bruce concert of 30,000 people who were on their feet all night, this dill refused to get off his bum but that is another matter).

making him head of the republican movement was a big win for monarchists.

it is not our politicians pushing it at all, though our new PM was previously head of the republican movement. politicians would prefer not to touch it.

and rob is correct in that the problem is the form of republic. it gets put out for a referendum in various forms unpalatable to many and so gets knocked back because idiot voters have not worked out that getting agreement on actually having a republic is the first step and the actual form of it can follow.

i'd much prefer the simplest form where an aussie head of state simply replaces the queen throughout and is elected by 75 or 80% of the combined houses of parliament - would prevent either side of politics getting their man in and also stop the general public from dimwitted decisions on the spur of the moment where some reality tv star experiences a wave of momentary and undeserved popularity and rides it into the job.

and fuzz, that would be going out on a lim.

[MIKA27]

I'm all for a Republic - Tell me one thing we get from the Royal family?

[Fuzz AI]

I'm all for a Republic - Tell me one thing we get from the Royal family?

Magazine sales.

[Overproof]

I'm all for a Republic - Tell me one thing we get from the Royal family?

A day off to celebrate her Birthday which seems to change every year.

[MIKA27]

A day off to celebrate her Birthday which seems to change every year.

...Ok, well that point alone, I say we keep as it is!

Although in saying that, surely becoming a republic, in effect gives us our own Independence holiday also.

[WarriorPrincess]

I still have no idea what the Royal family does for us and I suppose I will keep wondering.

All I see is that we pay for them to come out here every couple of years and pat some animals and wave to everyone

"President Lim" could maybe lead us in the right direction...you have my vote Chris

[Ken Gargett]

If it wasn't for us Poms mate you could have been a Dutch Colony

don't laugh. if that had happened, you might not have such a woeful record at sport.

[OZCUBAN]

I think the republic is inevitable one day.but I think there are some issues to sort out re: Robs post .

I am English by Birth spent my first 10 years there,but I think at the moment there are more pressing issues in Australia that need addressing ie economy climate change etc etc.

I personally think this is a distraction brought about by some poli's,and I would imagine that the cost of converting to a republic would be astronomical,and at the minute I don't think this country can afford it ,my take on this is that even though I am technically fence sitting,is if it "not broke don't fix it "

[Jeremy Festa]

I would like to add the following, as I have witnessed a few people mention there are more important issues for Australia, right now, well, I beg to differ.

So many other countries, including my wife's, fought, violently, for their independence. And only halfway got it.

There is no more important issue, when it comes to a country's independence. It leads to so many more beneficial outcomes.

This country was stolen. In relatively recent history. And as such, should be returned and recognised as so.

And we can do it peacefully. It's crazy that it hasn't happened.

I admire the United States' patriotism. Which I do not have for my own country.

And it rubs me the wrong way when I witness many friends on here, carry on about sports people representing their country poorly. And I think, it's just a union jack and the stupid southern cross for our flag. It means nothing to me.

As a 36 year old Australian male, coming from Italian and Danish descent, I want to belong to something a little more.

I want my children to grow up in a country that means something truly amazing.

Absolutely no disrespect to anyone or anyone's family member who fought under the flag or for the queen or any of that. There are plenty within my family. But times change. I want an Australian Republic.

Do that, and all the complacent 18 to 30's may just develop a sense of belonging and assist our economy.

Imagine how exciting it would be for our current school children.

In 15 to 20 years, there may just be far fewer problems.

[MIKA27]

If it wasn't for us Poms mate you could have been a Dutch Colony

......and? I'd rather wear clogs than listen to endless whining

[Ryan]

Guys, throw off the yoke. Best thing we ever did.

President as head of state.

Election by popular vote every 7 years. Two term maximum. Nominees come from nomination of 10% of parliament members.

Give them a nice house and a small staff, Chief of staff, cook and a driver. Have them do just about as much as the monarch of that other country does for you now.

Maybe accept the dissolution of a parliament, sign in the new one etc. Mínimum age 35 so they've done some kind of a job for a whíle and left most drugs behind them. Retire them to a job as commissioner of some UN something or other.

It's great, you get a head of state from your own country who gets to shake hands with other heads of state while the Prime Minister runs government or does whatever he or she does now.

[MIKA27]

even though I am technically fence sitting,is if it "not broke don't fix it "

[Ken Gargett]

I would like to add the following, as I have witnessed a few people mention there are more important issues for Australia, right now, well, I beg to differ.

So many other countries, including my wife's, fought, violently, for their independence. And only halfway got it.

There is no more important issue, when it comes to a country's independence. It leads to so many more beneficial outcomes.

This country was stolen. In relatively recent history. And as such, should be returned and recognised as so.

And we can do it peacefully. It's crazy that it hasn't happened.

I admire the United States' patriotism. Which I do not have for my own country.

And it rubs me the wrong way when I witness many friends on here, carry on about sports people representing their country poorly. And I think, it's just a union jack and the stupid southern cross for our flag. It means nothing to me.

As a 36 year old Australian male, coming from Italian and Danish descent, I want to belong to something a little more.

I want my children to grow up in a country that means something truly amazing.

Absolutely no disrespect to anyone or anyone's family member who fought under the flag or for the queen or any of that. There are plenty within my family. But times change. I want an Australian Republic.

Do that, and all the complacent 18 to 30's may just develop a sense of belonging and assist our economy.

Imagine how exciting it would be for our current school children.

In 15 to 20 years, there may just be far fewer problems.

i agree with a lot but not all of what you say.

i find it becomes a lot more important for me when i am overseas. at home, life ticks along and one rarely thinks of it. overseas, you often find yourself trying to explain why our head of state is actually from another country. insanity. the sooner it is over, the better.

it will cost money but it will be money well spent. worth ten times whatever it costs. for me, the best way to do it is simply to replace all references to the queen/king with aussie head of state and then have the election via parliament as suggested above (i simply do not trust the population to make clever decisions on this - it will become a popularity contest and it must be a situation where politics is out of the mix - hence the need for a 75 or 80% majority).

as for the flag, i have no great issue with keeping the union jack in the corner - it recognises so much of our history - but an amendment to recognise aboriginal australia should be added. otherwise, the southern cross is fine (not certain you can designate a constellation as "stupid").

but i am not sure i agree with some of what you say.

while i think it important, vital if you like, and the sooner the better that this happen, i don't buy that it will make any difference to whether young people "assist the economy" or not. do you really think someone is going to disadvantage themselves because of our current situation with the head of state? they'll do the same whatever the position.

i have no problem at all in recognising the history of this country, though there is a real danger of the subjective in that, but i think the concept of "stolen" and returned" is a load of crap. but this is subjective in the extreme.

i don't follow the issue you have with people being unhappy when other australians on the sporting field, act in a manner which reflects poorly on us as a nation. you make clear you do not have the same pride in australia that many of us do - and that is fine and entirely up to you - but why would it bother you that we have that pride and want our country to do as well as possible and to do it with dignity and class?

[MIKA27]

**Eyes closed and fingers crossed**

"Please don't close this thread, please don't close this thread"

[jwr0201]

Here's an American's viewpoint on Australians... First, you surely know that Americans as a whole really do have a deep admiration and fascination with Aussies. In our eyes, you are rugged, durable individuals that look to be fiercely independent. You also seem to take no **** from anyone. I remember my father talking about Aussies they flew with in WWII. We view Australia as it's own country. Period. MNSHO!