For those in the "know", when was your first knowledge of the "Anejado" program?

[Benzopyrene]

I remember them handing out an aged hoyo des dieux....must have been 2011 at partagas dinner in the Havana libre at partagas festival......I do not however remember that band at all. Alas I smoked mine immediately so it possible I just don't remember. There is a pic somewhere of an old Trinidad with an anejados band. I remember talking to somebody about this and I want to say he told me this program arose sometime back in mid to early 2000's I will ask my buddy again what his recollections are...... ill also go back and check the photos of my partagas festival experience.

[Tesoro12]

Does it say something in it of itself that so many smokers are so disinclined to trust HSA? I mean, this certainly isn't the only place where the discussion of authenticity shows up. As some would say, "Enough smoke indicates fire"

[NSXCIGAR]

Does it say something in it of itself that so many smokers are so disinclined to trust HSA? I mean, this certainly isn't the only place where the discussion of authenticity shows up. As some would say, "Enough smoke indicates fire"

Yes, it does say something.

The only time I trust HSA is when I'm smoking one of their products and it's good. Until that cigar is in it's last third I do not trust HSA. And when it's finished, I no longer trust them until I repeat that.

Having been lucky enough to start smoking CCs in the mid-90s I've witnessed how things were, how things became and how things are. I've seen what HSA is capable of, both good and bad. They've been on a positive track for over a decade but they've got a ways to go before I start using the "T" word.

[Tesoro12]

Yes, it does say something.

The only time I trust HSA is when I'm smoking one of their products and it's good. Until that cigar is in it's last third I do not trust HSA. And when it's finished, I no longer trust them until I repeat that.

Having been lucky enough to start smoking CCs in the mid-90s I've witnessed how things were, how things became and how things are. I've seen what HSA is capable of, both good and bad. They've been on a positive track for over a decade but they've got a ways to go before I start using the "T" word.

Awesome insight. I didn't mean to imply that we should trust HSA, more that this is something their brand marketing arm should be aware of. When that embargo falls and all the American buyers are seeing stories like this or hearing whispers about authenticity, especially with what will inevitably be a flood of somewhat illegitimate cigars (retailers will be quick to sell "lookalikes" and "Cuban farm tobacco" cigars because they will lure in the curious one-off novices) then they will never return to the cigars that most of us agree are world-class. I think it's incredibly disconcerting that we love HSA products but still wait for them to pull the wool over our eyes. I wish they recognized the damage they do to their brand with stunts like this. I recognize none of our conversation here is confirmed (in terms of whether Anejados are legit) but the history indicates this wouldn't be the first time they tried to hoodwink their own customers if it was accurate.

[Smallclub]

I recognize none of our conversation here is confirmed (in terms of whether Anejados are legit)

Please define "legit". The idea of HSA releasing a "non legit" Anejado series doesn't make sense.

[Tesoro12]

Please define "legit". The idea of HSA releasing a "non legit" Anejado series doesn't make sense.

To me, legit is whether or not these were actually aged as long as HSA claims they were as well whether they were actually rolled with this program in mind or whether they were aged rolled or exactly as they claim they did.

[NSXCIGAR]

Awesome insight. I didn't mean to imply that we should trust HSA, more that this is something their brand marketing arm should be aware of. When that embargo falls and all the American buyers are seeing stories like this or hearing whispers about authenticity, especially with what will inevitably be a flood of somewhat illegitimate cigars (retailers will be quick to sell "lookalikes" and "Cuban farm tobacco" cigars because they will lure in the curious one-off novices) then they will never return to the cigars that most of us agree are world-class. I think it's incredibly disconcerting that we love HSA products but still wait for them to pull the wool over our eyes. I wish they recognized the damage they do to their brand with stunts like this. I recognize none of our conversation here is confirmed (in terms of whether Anejados are legit) but the history indicates this wouldn't be the first time they tried to hoodwink their own customers if it was accurate.

All I know is what I smoke and see. There have been about two hundred special releases between LE, RE, LCDH, GR, and Anejado and the majority, to me, are no better than regular production. And the story frequently just doesn't match the product. When time after time a "special" release isn't really that special, one starts to ask questions. The gimmicks just keep on coming. There's little to no transparency in the industry.

Reminds me of the story of Zino Davidoff ending his contract with Cubatabaco and destroying thousands of boxes of cigars he deemed inferior in the early 90s. Even he was forced to accept that Cuba runs things top-down and it's very difficult to get answers and transparency there. With no competition he couldn't even go elsewhere in Cuba to find farmers and producers he liked--it's all Cubatabaco.

I dream of the day that private ownership of the means of production returns to Cuba. Can you imagine if Rocky Patel or the Olivas were able to grow and produce tobacco there again after all they've learned in the last 30 years and using modern technology?

[luv2fly]

These are off my radar screen, out of my wheel house. If I am gifted one I will smoke it. Otherwise it is a no go for me. Cuba being Cuba is enough for me to take a pass. Glad those who have had one enjoyed it. Just my humble opinion. To each their own.

[CanuckSARTech]

...I recognize none of our conversation here is confirmed (in terms of whether Anejados are legit) but the history indicates this wouldn't be the first time they tried to hoodwink their own customers if it was accurate.

Please define "legit". The idea of HSA releasing a "non legit" Anejado series doesn't make sense.

To me, legit is whether or not these were actually aged as long as HSA claims they were as well whether they were actually rolled with this program in mind or whether they were aged rolled or exactly as they claim they did.

I'd also add...

Legit in that whether or not H S.A. actually had these pre-packaged at Montecristo Churchills and RyJ Piramides / No 2's, prior to any aging period, or whether or not someone took a couple million of some cigars that were rolled and sitting around a not selling due to tasting like cardboard crap, and just made a "unique" story / cigar out of them instead, to try to light a fire under selling these off.

[Tesoro12]

I'd also add...

Legit in that whether or not H S.A. actually had these pre-packaged at Montecristo Churchills and RyJ Piramides / No 2's, prior to any aging period, or whether or not someone took a couple million of some cigars that were rolled and sitting around a not selling due to tasting like cardboard crap, and just made a "unique" story / cigar out of them instead, to try to light a fire under selling these off.

Yep, agreed completely. That was what I meant when I said "whether they were rolled with this program in mind". To be honest, my money is on the re-used and re-banded RyJ Piramide and Monte churchill. The flavors were muted and bland when they first came out and to me the new anejados seem like a natural progression of that flavor profile. The Monte was slightly better but the RyJ was very muted, similar to the original releases imo.

[Lotusguy]

The Hoyo Hermoso #4 is coming out end of the month. Same years as some of the dullest ERDM CS ever. Mhmm...

[TheGipper]

The Anejados boxes I have all look right for being 7-8 years of age. The wrapper leaf has a certain look and feel far different from a recently rolled cigar. I doubt they found some genius way to fake that.

So I'm sure these were certainly rolled in 2008 as claimed.

But were they intended to be Montecristos and RyJs all along? On that I have no opinion.

[mk05]

certainly rolled in 2008 as claimed.

Yes

But were they intended to be Montecristos and RyJs all along?

No

[Fugu]

Also some minor thoughts, not related to the anejado program:

I didn't mean to imply that we should trust HSA, more that this is something their brand marketing arm should be aware of. When that embargo falls and all the American buyers are seeing stories like this or hearing whispers about authenticity, especially with what will inevitably be a flood of somewhat illegitimate cigars

Why should this in any way turn out different in the US as for the rest of the world? HSA and their respective importers did set in quite powerful means to work agains that. It seems functioning. Provided you are sensible in selecting your sources for aquisition, it certainly is no lottery. As it won't be in the US, should the day come.

There's little to no transparency in the industry.

But, NSX, where do we have transparency in any industry, I ask? Do we ask this question for NCs? As you are mentioning Rocky Patel - remember his story of the secret blend in one of his lines? (can't quite remember which it was, Decade or so.). Secret? - ok, intentionally and frankly kept secret - no one complaining about that? Enough other examples. And other industries as well - do I really need to mention Volkswagen?!

Reminds me of the story of Zino Davidoff ending his contract with Cubatabaco and destroying thousands of boxes of cigars he deemed inferior in the early 90s. Even he was forced to accept that Cuba runs things top-down

Right, but that really seems to be a good story, or at least only part of the story, IIRC. In an intervew Ernest Schneider of Oettinger (holding Davidoff) said, that Cuba "offered" Davidoff a franchise contract for their own marca... They denied of course, but the consequence was that they finally had to leave....

[monkey66]

Slight off topic but my understanding of the Davidoff fire story is far simpler and potentially plausible (although I have no hard evidence). The reason to destroy boxes was a legal challenge to their use of French Chateau names without permission that were/are protected by international law. Anyone else ever hear this?

Back on topic the HSA is about as transparent as mud.

The best we can hope is a new release smokes well, that's about it. We have seen planned releases that smoke like crap so information does not make a good cigar.

....it's all in the smoke; no more, no less.

[Fugu]

Slight off topic but my understanding of the Davidoff fire story is far simpler and potentially plausible (although I have no hard evidence). The reason to destroy boxes was a legal challenge to their use of French Chateau names without permission that were/are protected by international law. Anyone else ever hear this?

Never heard of that one. They certainly asked for permission at hindsight, and they even had to retreat from Chateau Yquem [sic] in 1982 (thereafter replaced for Ch. Mouton-Rothschild), as the Baron didn't grant his permission. That implies, for me, that Davidoff finally got permission from all other brand holders.

EDIT: If the burning ever happend. Hardly any substantiated proofs out there...

[Fugu]

The best we can hope is a new release smokes well, that's about it. We have seen planned releases that smoke like crap so information does not make a good cigar.

True indeed!

[Tesoro12]

Also some minor thoughts, not related to the anejado program:

Why should this in any way turn out different in the US as for the rest of the world? HSA and their respective importers did set in quite powerful means to work agains that. It seems functioning. Provided you are sensible in selecting your sources for aquisition, it certainly is no lottery. As it won't be in the US, should the day come.

Because nobody else around the world has had an embargo on cuban cigars or hasn't in any recent times. This increases the social cachet of those sticks and means that buyers will flood the market because of the "forbidden fruit" nature of the product. I am saying that the majority of US buyers will be novices and will not know provenance or legitimate sources. They will go to their local "smoke-shop" and buy something that sits between water pipes and ****** tobacco. These will undoubtedly be of questionable authenticity and quality and will therefore color their view on cuban cigars in general. Now the real reason why that should worry HSA is the loss of those customers. If we think the vast majority of the market is going to be paying $15+ per stick (my somewhat uninformed general estimate of pricing after embargo, due to leaf constraints combined with significantly increased demand) then I think we are confused. The majority of the american market is price conscious when it comes to cigars, that's the reason RP or ACID cigars sell so well here. They will look for a cheaper alternative and the "smoke-shop" special cigars will be that alternative.

[PigFish]

I have known that they have had An-A-Hole program for a long time now!!! Has that changed?

-Piggy

[Fugu]

Because nobody else around the world has had an embargo on cuban cigars or hasn't in any recent times. This increases the social cachet of those sticks and means that buyers will flood the market because of the "forbidden fruit" nature of the product. I am saying that the majority of US buyers will be novices and will not know provenance or legitimate sources. They will go to their local "smoke-shop" and buy something that sits between water pipes and ****** tobacco. These will undoubtedly be of questionable authenticity and quality and will therefore color their view on cuban cigars in general. Now the real reason why that should worry HSA is the loss of those customers. If we think the vast majority of the market is going to be paying $15+ per stick (my somewhat uninformed general estimate of pricing after embargo, due to leaf constraints combined with significantly increased demand) then I think we are confused. The majority of the american market is price conscious when it comes to cigars, that's the reason RP or ACID cigars sell so well here. They will look for a cheaper alternative and the "smoke-shop" special cigars will be that alternative.

Ok, let's keep this off-topic, as no one else seems going to post any further relevant info to Rob's original question....

There seems to be some huge misconception about how it is working in the rest of the world.

Exactly, what I was trying to say: You simply won’t get habanos at your “local smoke shop” or the “newspaper kiosk/drug store/gas station” round the corner, at least not the premium sticks. Quite like you also won’t today in London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, neither in Toronto nor in Hong Kong!

In the US, very likely the same distribution channels and franchise system of LCDH, Habanos Experts and Habanos Points will be set in place as is in other parts of the world (really, why should they do differently?). You will be able to get them from authorized dealers. If you buy elsewhere - your problem! The grey market will be operating of course, but nobody will be forced to buy from there, if he is not willing to take risks and learn it the hard way...

Everybody has to do his/her homework on an individual basis, irrespective of whether it is an old or a brand-new market. There is no excuse, mate. From the perspective of the individual buyer, the novice, it will be plain irrelevant. Gather information, I say! It is a learning process that probably each of us had to go through at some point. If one’s not willing to learn, then yes, I agree, he will probably better stick with his “smoke shop-specials”. You will find ignorant people all over the world, certainly not a privilege of the US. You really think that should bother HSA in any particular way?

Buy from legitimate, reputable sources and you’ll have no problem. If the market should open one day, I bet it would very, very quickly become exactly the same in the US as anywhere else on the planet.