Longtime CC Smokers: Is the Product on the Decline?


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I read a review of a Trinidad Fundi today by a cigar site that reviews almost exclusively NC and is backed by a very popular retailer here in the states. Almost as if it's second nature, he peddles most of the rhetoric that retailers in the US use.

He did say one thing that I just can't confirm because I've only started smoking cigars within the last 5-6 years. He said that over the years the product coming from Cuba has been in decline.

My frame of reference is from ~2008,9 - now. From my reference, I feel like much of the product (crop and construction) from the last 2-3 years has been excellent. Better than much of what I picked up dated between 2007-2011.

For those of you long time smokers, is the product in decline? Is it a worse product than it was immediately after the obvious quality control issues of the late 90s? Is it a worse product that pre cigar boom?

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For those of you long time smokers, is the product in decline? Is it a worse product than it was immediately after the obvious quality control issues of the late 90s? Is it a worse product that pre cigar boom?

Yes and no. Certain lines are on the decline, specially the most "refined" blends (ERDM, LGC, Hoyo, Trinidad) but some new blends were created (SCdLH) and many cigars are now good without aging...

Also, the "second tiers", cheaper cigars are nowadays MUCH better than what they were in the 90's.

Machine made Romeo No.1, 2, 3, Super Partagas, Mille Fleurs, Majestics, Palmas Extra, etc. were terrible and often ugly.

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Great question. I haven't smoked long enough to have a real informed opinion on the matter (~ 7 years). We hear about crop issues the last two seasons, the loss of long, quality wrappers leaves, etc. But then on the flipside, we hear things like the 2014 releases have some great tobacco in them. Hard to say. Hopefully our members with 10+ years of experience will reply.

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Absolutely, without a doubt 2013-2015 production on the whole is the best it's been since 1998. In fact, production has improved in an almost linear fashion, excepting 2003 which was a particularly good year.

Quality has been steadily improving, not declining, for many years. Any claim otherwise is just the kind of ignorant babble I hear lots of NC cultists spew.

For the record, I've been smoking CCs steadily since 1996.

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I'm not a long time smoker or anything. But i smoked a few boxes about 3-4 years ago. I wasn't overly impressed and stopped smoking them, just smoked the NCs. Over the past few months I've been smoking the CCs again. Wow, they are glorious for me. I'd say they have gotten better.

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Absolutely, without a doubt 2013-2015 production on the whole is the best it's been since 1998. In fact, production has improved in an almost linear fashion, excepting 2003 which was a particularly good year.

Quality has been steadily improving, not declining, for many years. Any claim otherwise is just the kind of ignorant babble I hear lots of NC cultists spew.

For the record, I've been smoking CCs steadily since 1996.

2003? Really? Haven't had much from then. Although very general and mostly useless to try and qualify specific years, my favorite is easily 2008, followed by late 2005 early 2006.

I must say that recently I am finding less and less individuality among the cigars. Perhaps better quality construction, but less uniqueness.

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Hi all,

For me ,things have been good If not great In certain cases.When you look at the HdM Plamas Extra and other cheappies, today they are smoking fine compared to some years ago when they were plugged or badly machine made. Today they are hand made as they all are .

The rest of the Habanos are good or great and less plugged and better looking then before the cigar boom.

They also smoke better today.

I have been smoking now for 45 years and I never smoked better then today. The quality Is,( on the whole ), a lot better.( At least for me,that Is) It comes as no suprise that a N.C. dealer said that . It's B.S. and I was not expecting any better. Now they are REALLY scared.

Guy

What Guy said. Spot on.

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What Guy said. Spot on.

Couldn't sleep, Prez? Up and at 'em kinda early. If I had your warehouse, I think I would never sleep. Just stay in there 24/24 and marvel at the site.

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Although a newb here, I’ve been at this since the late '70s, with a break for the boom, when too many cigar smokers were faddist assholes and too many cigars became useful for little more than plugging those orifices. Kids arrived around that time too, which was thoughtful of the little buggers, and, added to the boom, gave me a couple of good reasons to pause for a few years before getting back into it. At any rate, I think Hutch's comment comes closest to stating my feelings on the subject.

Hutch used the term "dumbing down". I think that’s close, although my analogy is that the edges have been sanded down. As a result, you have more product designed to appeal to more people with middle of the road tastes. Some uniqueness and personality have been lost over time to blending changes and discontinuation of some items that did not appeal to everyone. That’s not necessarily a bad thing—some of those duds deserved a bullet to the temple.

The cigar brand signature profiles were more easily differentiated years ago. As a result, you had Partagas smokers, Upmann smokers, Monte smokers and so on to an even greater degree than today. Most of us have several brands in our humidors now and that is a good, fun thing, enhancing the overall addiction, er…hobby.

Blending adjustments have been made over the years to enhance the experience earlier in the aging cycle of today’s cigars, at the expense of higher ultimate glory awarded to those with patience. On par, I would say that a two year old cigar today is more ready to smoke that a two year old cigar was in 1980, although certainly it can go either way. But an 8 year old cigar in 1980 tasted pretty damn good compared to an 8 year old cigar today.

The other huge factor, as mentioned several times above, is construction. Lumpy, bumpy cigars with voids and hard spots were somewhat common not all that long ago. Pulling lumber out of cigars with one's teeth did not enhance the experience. Not today. Quality is way, way up. The only thing that I miss from those days from a construction point of view is true oiliness. It wasn't uncommon to open a new box to see the glassine paper stained with oil like a bag o' fries. Fiery spice from that oil that I just loved. I do miss that.

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The cigar brand signature profiles were more easily differentiated years ago. As a result, you had Partagas smokers, Upmann smokers, Monte smokers and so on to an even greater degree than today.

I disagree. Again, this sounds like the point of view of someone who doesn't have free and full access to B&M shop that sell habanos. There are thousands of amateurs in Europe who purchase the same vitola for 20 years. All the venerable european tobacconists would tell you about these gentlemen who smoke exclusively Lusitanias, or D4, or RyJ churchills, or Cohiba Robustos…

When you discuss with these guys they admit they have never tried a SLR or a Sancho Panza…

As for the brand signatures less differentiated I believe it's linked to the age of the smoker. Twenty or thirty years of daily cigars affect your taste buds and olfactif system, that's a fact.

Add to this the fact that most of the cigars which had a unique specificity are discontinued.

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2003? Really? Haven't had much from then. Although very general and mostly useless to try and qualify specific years, my favorite is easily 2008, followed by late 2005 early 2006.

I must say that recently I am finding less and less individuality among the cigars. Perhaps better quality construction, but less uniqueness.

Yes, I think 2003 was without doubt the diamond in the rough in that entire era. I'd put it right behind 2008 production. You'll have some difficulty finding 2003 box codes since I think it's fairly well known that 2003 was quite good.

1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004 were basically stinker years. 05 and 06 slightly better, 07 better still, and 2008 I think was the real breakthrough year. I agree, 2008 was very good, right through 09 and 10. I think 11 & 12 were either the same or slightly worse, but then 13 was another breakthrough year, with 14 and 15 the same or better. And with the recent news about the best tobacco crop in recent memory, I'm optimistic that 16 and 17 will be the best production we've seen since 96-97.

Regarding your thoughts on uniqueness of taste, I would absolutely have agreed with you from 99-06. During that period I smoked countless cigars that I was simply unable to detect any characteristics of their respective marcas in. However, since at least 06-07 the marcas' DNA has been reappearing and the blends seem to be getting back to their roots.

There certainly was a long, long period of very poor cigars coming out of Cuba and I can understand people who just got into them in the late 90s and really never experienced what they really used to be, and then gave up on them in 05 or 06 before they really got back on track.

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The cigar brand signature profiles were more easily differentiated years ago. As a result, you had Partagas smokers, Upmann smokers, Monte smokers and so on to an even greater degree than today. Most of us have several brands in our humidors now and that is a good, fun thing, enhancing the overall addiction, er…hobby.

Blending adjustments have been made over the years to enhance the experience earlier in the aging cycle of today’s cigars, at the expense of higher ultimate glory awarded to those with patience. On par, I would say that a two year old cigar today is more ready to smoke that a two year old cigar was in 1980, although certainly it can go either way. But an 8 year old cigar in 1980 tasted pretty damn good compared to an 8 year old cigar today.

I'd have to add that I don't believe there were blend changes intended to homogenize the marcas. The lack in differentiation was due to several factors such as poor quality tobacco, stretching supply too thin (overproduction), poor blending knowledge and poor rolling skill. In other words, this was a technical, bottom-up problem, not an administrative, top-down problem.

Now, I'm also aware that different procedures in terms of curing and aging of leaves have been tried since 2000 resulting in tobacco aging differently and/or being more suitable to smoke young. But I also don't think that is a "blending" issue.

I can tell you that when I smoke a 2014 Monte 4 all the flavors are there, and the balance is there. But I would say that in 1996 the flavors were much more pronounced and richer. That to me is a tobacco quality issue, not a blending issue. But if you give me a 2014 Monte 4, JLPC and a BPC I would absolutely be able to tell them apart instantly. The issue to me is how pronounced the flavors are. But they are there.

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And with the recent news about the best tobacco crop in recent memory, I'm optimistic that 16 and 17 will be the best production we've seen since 96-97.

confused.gif

we have been repeatedly taught, here and elsewhere, that "the Cuban tobacco industry has actually had ‘very bad harvests in the last two cycles’."

I haven't heard or read yet one word positive about the recent crop…

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one good thing about the last few years of production: if you get something good you know it right away.

and you can reorder quickly.... and stand a reasonable chance of getting more of the same

it was a crap shoot when i started in 2003 = you never knew whether something was gonna be good after its requisite 1-2 yrs of aging

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confused.gif

we have been repeatedly taught, here and elsewhere, that "the Cuban tobacco industry has actually had ‘very bad harvests in the last two cycles’."

I haven't heard or read yet one word positive about the recent crop…

I suppose any news about the crops are pretty unreliable, whether it be from Robaina or the Davidoff CEO. But if the "last two cycles" include any 2015 production I can tell you that it's certainly not that bad.

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I can tell you that when I smoke a 2014 Monte 4 all the flavors are there, and the balance is there. But I would say that in 1996 the flavors were much more pronounced and richer. That to me is a tobacco quality issue, not a blending issue. But if you give me a 2014 Monte 4, JLPC and a BPC I would absolutely be able to tell them apart instantly. The issue to me is how pronounced the flavors are. But they are there.

Let's make sure you sign up for next year's blind tasting then. I'll sponsor you for a share in the winnings! party.gif

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I'm not a long time smoker like Guy and Frank, but in my 17 years of smoking CC's I think that the current regular production is generally very reliable, generally tasty, and I keep coming back for more.

Unlike the fiasco of the early 2000's where lots were plugged., there was a period around 2009 to 2012 where a lot was too loosely packed and were wind tunnels. Mainly 898's and BBF.

Current product is worth stocking up on. Go deep - It's great.

I have given up entirely on most EL's, as I just don't have great experiences from them - and I demand a great experience for the price of admission.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm not a long time smoker like Guy and Frank, but in my 17 years of smoking CC's I think that the current regular production is generally very reliable, generally tasty, and I keep coming back for more.

Unlike the fiasco of the early 2000's where lots were plugged., there was a period around 2009 to 2012 where a lot was too loosely packed and were wind tunnels. Mainly 898's and BBF.

Current product is worth stocking up on. Go deep - It's great.

I have given up entirely on most EL's, as I just don't have great experiences from them - and I demand a great experience for the price of admission.

Almost exactly identical here.

Smoking since 1998 or so. Gap in 2002 to late 2004 / early 2005. Best years seem to have been 2008, then 2012 and on up. Stuff from 2012, 2013, and 2014 has been exceptional, IMO.

I don't agree with the blend homogenous thought, but that's just me.

(EDIT - 2010 was pretty darn good too).

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