Discontinuations and Ruminations

[JohnS]

Recently, I enjoyed catching up with Trevor Leask, the founder of Cuban Cigar Website and moderator on our forum. In between sampling some fine cigars, we discussed further some of the topics we first covered in our interview about CCW here...http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123320

I must say, there were some interesting things brought up which I wanted to open up to discussion here some of the points we raised. We discussed a book that was released in April 2003 as a joint venture between Habanos S.A. and Hunters & Frankau UK, "The Complete Guide for Habanos' Enthusiasts"

http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/books/2003_the_complete_guide.aspx

What is interesting about this book, apart from the wealth of information on the process of cigar making in Cuba found in the 57 page booklet "Cultivating a Tradition of Perfection", was the information on the 33 brands (now 27), and the included "Guide to Habanos Sizes" poster.

What struck me was the fact that the largest ring gauged cigar from that 2003 publication was the 52 ring gauge piramide, the Montecristo No.2. Although the Cigar Affection.com chart above is not from the book, I've included it as a reference to the fact that it also doesn't include any cigars above 52 ring gauge, and only a few over 47 ring gauge (4 out of 25).

So, what has caused such a prolific change in size of cigars, especially in relation to ring gauges, in the last 10 years or so? The popular view suggests that it's because of the American market and the demand for larger cigars, but is it that simple? And why lament the loss of 'long and skinnies' anyway?

One thing we need to consider is, that of the 27 brands that Habanos S.A. have, 7 of these account for possibly over 80% of worldwide sales. There's a link here... http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/info-brands.aspx which shows from 2006 and 2009, four brands, Cohiba, Montecristo, Partagas and Romeo y Julieta account for 60% of sales and about 75% of revenue. Have you noticed that these four brands account for very few discontinuations in the last 5 years, and these were only the smaller ring gauge RyJ Corona, Petit Princess and the Partagas Serie Connaisseur No's 1, 2 and 3?

Also, please note that of the 14 2015 new cigar releases, only 4 have a ring gauge under 50/64ths of an inch.

http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/briefsummarylist.aspx?sortorder=specialtype&releaselow=2015&releasehigh=2015&highlightstatus=true

In my own personal journey of this wonderful hobby, I've come to value many opinions, but ultimately I've come to rely upon having a broad mind and being open to new knowledge about cigars, whether that has to do with flavour, brand or size preferences. I've also been willing to acknowledge the experience of some enthusiasts, who value 'long and skinnies' (such as our dear former FoH moderator Chuck Vaughan-Lloyd - Tampa1257 and Ray - PigFish) or even just 42 ring gauge Coronas, as Trevor and I were recently lamenting. You can see for yourself in the link below, a chart listing the size of Habanos cigars, take a note how many 42 ring gauge cigars above 129mm in length have been discontinued.

http://www.cigaraffection.com/cigars_sizes_length_gauge_names_vitolas.html

Personally, I desire these thinner cigars to be re-released, but alas, it seems that the market dictates. Even from a practical point of view, torcedors can roll a larger ring-gauged cigar more easily and have less construction issues than a smaller ring-gauged cigar. Despite this, I long for the simple things in life when it comes to a cigar, such as trying to smoke up a one-inch length of ash on a 46 ring gauge cigar or lower, knowing that a cooler smoke will bring out better flavours and enhance my enjoyment of that cigar. It's just that I have to work harder to prevent a larger ring gauged cigar (over 50) from burning hot under the same circumstances with every draw.

Is my wish forlorn I ask? Of the fourteen new 2015 releases, only the Romeo y Julieta Club King (42 x 129mm) and the Montecristo Media Corona (44 x 90mm) are below 47 ring gauge. Still, the thought of a Montecristo No 1, Trinidad Fundadores or Cohiba Lanceros is still comforting, even if the availability of these cigars pales in comparison to Partagas Serie D No.4's, Cohiba Robustos and Ramon Allones Specially Selected (not that I don't mind smoking these!)

Dear Habanos S.A. market demand is one thing, but please don't forget the enthusiast who would like nothing more than a 2016 release to be a Corona, Corona Grande or Lonsdale vitola. Now that would be something!

[skalls]

NCs see sales of 60+ gauge cigars. The perception is there's more value in the cigar or that it's more macho.

Both of these assumptions are idiotic at best in my opinion. But that's what's selling the most these days.

[ayepatz]

I reckon outdoor smoking rules have influenced shorter vitolas, but I'm not sure that applies to ring gauge.

Maybe it's the more-is-more, look-at-me appeal of the modern conspicuous consumer age.

Bring back Lonsdales. Please.

[JY0]

I prefer a thinner ring gauge. 42 to 49 is where I like it. I don't understand the allure of a fat cigar.

^^^^ I agree, Bring back more Lonesdales.

[santela]

42 and 46 are my favorites (read coronas and corona gordas). 50 (robustos) is also okay but not ideal. I don't mind piramids because of the thinner top, even though they are usually 52.

[Ryan]

It's a matter of time, not long, before Habanos release a 60 rg cigar.

[NweakO]

I was smoking a CoRo yesterday, and it looked like a petit corona in my hand.

Do you know that it is almost impossible to get a hold of coronas or petit coronas in this part of the world? Like you said...demand!

[Colt45]

A. So, what has caused such a prolific change in size of cigars, especially in relation to ring gauges, in the last 10 years or so? The popular view suggests that it's because of the American market and the demand for larger cigars, but is it that simple?

B. And why lament the loss of 'long and skinnies' anyway?

C. Dear Habanos S.A. market demand is one thing, but please don't forget the enthusiast who would like nothing more than a 2016 release to be a Corona, Corona Grande or Lonsdale vitola. Now that would be something!

A. Though they may be following trends, I've always been doubtful that they'd cater to a market they don't technically have. If I remember correctly, they sell a large number of thick rings in the mid and far east ( and it seems Behikes etc are quite popular around the globe ).

B. For me the thin and mid gauges can allow for a more intense delivery of flavor.

C. This door has been banged on for some time - the lights are on, but no one's home. I'd be more apt to put my money on Indies when they are able to produce cigars.

[CaptainQuintero]

I don't think the yanks are totally to blame maybe the trend started over there as a bit of a gimmick but from what you see and read, Asia is driving the demand for large ring CC.

I don't mind big cigars being around, just add a few premium corona/PC here and there to give the world a bit of verity.

Diplomatico, RA, ERDM, Partagas.

Releasing just these four well made cigars in a corona/PC would silence the whole lot of us and there would be no more discontent each year when the big new releases are announced.

[Smallclub]

IMHO: the perfect ring gauge is between 47 and 52 with 49/50 being optimal.

Optimal for who? There was a time where robustos were seen as "monster" cigars, and each marca had a corona in its line. Coronas were seen as the best balanced vitola.

Note that I like most robustos but I don't see them as "optimal".

btw, Davidoff didn't make a robusto, not a coincidence IMHO.

[joeypots]

Used to be the corona was referred to as the king of cigars. I remember reading that at one time the size was considered the best to bring out the full potential of the various types of tobacco, wrapper, binder, filler, ect. Though they are not formal vitola names, petit, grande, double, extra, and gorda, seem to reference the corona as the bench mark cigar, many others are expansions of it.

I like them all. I'm not too fond of the giant girth cigars. They don't feel good in my mouth.

My $.02

[luv2fly]

Would love to buy this book with the posters. Please PM me if anyone knows where I could find one. Did a search online but only found paperbacks with no posters.

Thanks!

[Smallclub]

This "Cigar Sizes, Shapes & colours Guide Chart" is wrong on many points. For instance, "Presidentes" is NOT a size, it's a vitola de salidad, the vitola de galera being "tacos".

The mix of cuban and non cuban references doesn't make sense.

[JohnS]

NCs see sales of 60+ gauge cigars. The perception is there's more value in the cigar or that it's more macho.

Both of these assumptions are idiotic at best in my opinion. But that's what's selling the most these days.

There are cultural considerations aren't there? Last year, when my family went to Hawaii for a holiday (or vacation), my wife and I learnt that a small coffee doesn't sell in the American market because it's not seen as 'value'. So, my preference for long blacks had to get replaced with asking for an Americano (to me, that's a refreshing summer cocktail with equal parts of Sweet Vermouth and Campari) and my wife's preference for a flat white, which I've come to understand is quite an Australian phenomenon, was replaced with asking for a 'latte'. We did find one place which catered for specialist coffees (Bills in Waikiki), so it was nice just to have that option. In the same way, this is all I'd like HSA to consider. Of your 15 possible new releases in 2016, is it too much to ask to bring out one lonsdale and one corona? Heck, make sure they're one of your big four brands (Montecristo, Cohiba, Partagas or Romeo y Julieta) and you know it will sell. To me, it's no coincidence that the Club King (42 ring gauge) and the Media Corona (44 ring gauge) have been released under one of these four prominent brands.

I reckon outdoor smoking rules have influenced shorter vitolas, but I'm not sure that applies to ring gauge.

Maybe it's the more-is-more, look-at-me appeal of the modern conspicuous consumer age.

Bring back Lonsdales. Please.

Outdoor smoking and restirictions on time definitely are a factor in the change in cigar-smoking habits. Definitely bring back the lonsdale!

A. Though they may be following trends, I've always been doubtful that they'd cater to a market they don't technically have. If I remember correctly, they sell a large number of thick rings in the mid and far east ( and it seems Behikes etc are quite popular around the globe ).

B. For me the thin and mid gauges can allow for a more intense delivery of flavor.

C. This door has been banged on for some time - the lights are on, but no one's home. I'd be more apt to put my money on Indies when they are able to produce cigars.

A. Yes, biggest markets are Spain, France, Germany, UK and China are they not?

B. I concur. There's nothing like a beautifully balanced (between the three layers of ligero, seco and volado leaves) 40 to 46 ring gauge cigar to deliver

C. I understand that, believe it or not, HSA (representatives) do follow what is mentioned in cigar forums like ours.

I don't think the yanks are totally to blame maybe the trend started over there as a bit of a gimmick but from what you see and read, Asia is driving the demand for large ring CC.

I don't mind big cigars being around, just add a few premium corona/PC here and there to give the world a bit of variety.

Diplomatico, RA, ERDM, Partagas.

Releasing just these four well made cigars in a corona/PC would silence the whole lot of us and there would be no more discontent each year when the big new releases are announced.

Spot on...I second your thoughts.

Optimal for who? There was a time where robustos were seen as "monster" cigars, and each marca had a corona in its line. Coronas were seen as the best balanced vitola.

Note that I like most robustos but I don't see them as "optimal".

btw, Davidoff didn't make a robusto, not a coincidence IMHO.

That's right, Coronas were once seen as the best-balanced vitola and each marca had one in it's line.

Would love to buy this book with the posters. Please PM me if anyone knows where I could find one. Did a search online but only found paperbacks with no posters.

Thanks!

Yes, you wouldn't want this book without the booklet and posters. http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58814

This "Cigar Sizes, Shapes & colours Guide Chart" is wrong on many points. For instance, "Presidentes" is NOT a size, it's a vitola de salidad, the vitola de galera being "tacos".

The mix of cuban and non cuban references doesn't make sense.

That's right. It took Trevor a long time to distinguish names for sizes when he began to catalogue Habanos releases for Cuban Cigar Website in the mid-2000s. For example, the robusto was especially confusing as it covered a variety of cigar sizes and was also the name of a cigar. Getting rid of non cuban references such as 'Toro' was important in clearing up confusion.

[JohnS]

In terms of marketing, there's an interesting distinction between inventory amounts in FoH's sales and cigar inventories on Cuban Cigar Website.

2015 Friends of Habanos Year to Date Sales to June

1. Montecristo Number 4
2. Montecristo Number 2
3. Bolivar Petit Corona
4. Partagas D 4
5. Partagas Short
6. Bolivar Belicoso Fino
7. Bolivar Royal Corona
8. Ramon Allones Specially Select
9. Cohiba Robusto
10. H. Upmann Magnum 46
11. Hoyo De Monterrey Epicure Number 2
12. Por larranaga Petit Corona
13. H. Upmann Half Corona
14. Montecristo Petit Edmundo
15. Partagas Lusitania

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123128&p=602731

Cuban Cigar Website Total Inventory by Marcas - June 2015

1. Ramón Allones Specially Selected
2. Bolívar Petit Coronas
3. Partagás Serie D No.4
4. Por Larrañaga Petit Coronas
5. Cohiba BHK 56
6. Cohiba Robustos
7. Partagás Shorts
8. Ramón Allones Small Club Coronas
9. Cohiba Siglo VI
10. H. Upmann Half Corona
11. Montecristo Montecristo No.2
12. H. Upmann Magnum 46
13. Montecristo Montecristo No.4
14. Partagás 8-9-8
15. La Gloria Cubana Medaille d'Or No.​ 2

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123128&p=620018

FoH sales indicate 6 cigar out of 15 with ring gauges 46 and under whereas CCW inventories (which are more likely to be kept by enthusiasts, in my opinion) contain 9 cigars out of 15 with ring gauges 46 and under.

[archosaur]

Agree with the sentiment here. I love a good corona, the vitola just seems 'perfect'. About 20% of my small collection is, in fact, discontinued coronas!

The longer cervantes adds an elegant, celebratory feel.

I'm sure they will come back in style...eventually

[Professor Twain]

Great piece. I didn't know the figures about so many sales coming from a small number of marcas. Thanks.

[Colt45]

C. I understand that, believe it or not, HSA (representatives) do follow what is mentioned in cigar forums like ours.

Yes, RA has mentioned a few times that they read the forum - so what does that tell us?!

Truth be told, I understand producing what will sell, cutting what languishes on shelves, and the economics of scale. But would it really be that uneconomical to produce fifty, one hundred, three hundred, etc boxes of Partagas and / or Bolivar coronas every now and then?

[Smallclub]

Yes, RA has mentioned a few times that they read the forum - so what does that tell us?!

That they read only the threads about US politics, guns and religion...

[Colt45]

That they read only the threads about US politics, guns and religion...

Exactly