Vintage Cigar Expectations and Discussion

[El Presidente]

Another discussion held on the deck among members this past week. I doubt there is a problem in the world that we don't solve or a topic left untouched

First of all let's define a "Vintage Cigar" as one with 15 years age on it. This is not a global definition by any means but solely for the purpose of the exercise here. So we are talking about the year 2000 and prior.

Many of us will actively seek out a Vintage Cigar or if not actively seek them out will come across them from time to time (retail store/private market/gift/existing personal holdings). If we don't already hold them as part of an ageing program or if they are not a gift/trade, then we will have likely payed a premium for them. That is not always the case (Andorra or the forgotten back shelf in a B&M) but generally is.

Now expectations are generally high but what has been your experience in the smoking?

Use the poll to indicate your general experience but post on this thread (if you like) a more detailed response and perhaps a few things that you have learned over the years in procuring and the smoking of vintage cigars in order to maximise the opportunities of a stellar experience . It will no doubt help other members.

The do's and don'ts if you like.

[Ken Gargett]

didn't vote, as you need another category - "sometimes superlative and sometimes disappointing".

you've put me on to some fantastic vintage boxes - partagas D4 springs to mind as truly sensational. but there was a box of punch coronas from '99, i think. had about half a dozen (should pull one out for after our next video to see what you think) and been very underwhelmed.

overall, re vintage boxes, i am very positive about them.

[tmac77]

Ended up on the fence on this one and voted meets expectations. As Rob noted, expectations of vintage cigars are generally higher than your run of the mill 3-5 year old cigar. There is a certain mystique about a cigar you are about to lite up a that has been sitting in a humidor for nigh on 2 decades. I have smoked quite a few vintage cigars and find that some fall short, others are simply sublime and the rest are somewhere in between. When I do have the opportunity to smoke one I try to get in my smoking comfort zone. (good atmosphere, nice drink to pair it with) and pay a bit more attention to the subtleties that it has to offer. I also have lowered my general expectations of vintage cigars over the years and have found that this adds in the enjoyment of the cigar as opposed to looking for every one to be a 98 on the rating scale.

[Colt45]

I guess there are a few issues to consider - provenance, storage, initial quality. My personal experience with vintage cigars has been fairly older than fifteen years - I don't find menthol / mothball enticing qualities.

2000 Upmann Sir Winstons were great relatively recently when they drew properly, but that box is gone. 2003s are still doing well. '03 Bolivar CGs might be past it, but I need to try another soon.

So personally, were I able, I would not chase vintage, hard to find, etc - I'd be much more interested in more current quality cigars.

[PapaDisco]

The 15 year old stock that I purchase, I find somewhat variable but meeting expectations. The most consistent thing I notice is that I can nub these almost always, whereas with new cigars about half the time I'm putting them out in the final third.

I tend to have more hits with 5 year old cigars than I do with 15 year olds, so to me that's the sweet spot. I'm looking forward to some of the sealed stock that I've put away for the next decade and a half though. I will be interested to see if zip locked and lockered yields a better result than the Habanos aging program.

[smokum]

Intersting topic. I have an Aristocrat full of mostly 10 - 12 year old stock thats been kept at 62f and 65rh I am just now starting to resume smoking. I am finding this age to be mostly above expectations. I was concerned with that long of a rest would find them going past their prime. To the contrary they have all seemd to become more complex and great to smoke except for a few that have been so-so. Even the Cazadores are really smoking well. I hope the 15 year and older mark will find themeven better.

[Professor Twain]

I've smoked and purchased a fair number of vintage cigars. I've had a great experience with them, though with variance that is to me pretty predictable.

I've smoked a number of Clear Havanas that I got through Nick at Gotham Cigar Museum. Every one of them has been outstanding. These are pre embargo cigars, rolled in the US with Cuban tobacco. Some have been as old as the 1920s.

I've had great luck with certain Cuban marcas, including Bolivar, Upmann, Punch, Montecristo, and Partagas. Even the old machine made can be exceptionally good. 1987 Punch Exquisitos was particularly memorable.

I've had bad luck with milder cigars, like Hoyo de Monterrey, with the exception of the des Dieux.

I haven't had enough experience to judge with Cohiba and Trinidad, but the few I have had from the 1990s were mind blowing.

Of course they have to have been stored properly.

A whole other topic is that some of the older cigars had a different blend. In my experience the old Bolivars are much stronger and bolder than recent blends.

Great topic.

[Rye]

Some of my best and favorite cigars are 15+ years old, and my success rate with them equals that of current production cigars.

There is a treasured place for both in my rotation as I quite like the vibrant tastes of the youthful sticks as well as the smooth refined delivery of the aged stuff.

[cigcars]

When you talk of "vintage" I'm thinking of Habana cigars from around the '50's and so on. And I have been very blessed to be able to acquire some through the years. My vote was "generally meets my expectations." They were not lacking the fruity, mapley, toasted bread and raisin fragrance that excites and tickles my palate

[Puros Y Vino]

I've been lucky so far. I've smoked some very cool vintage stuff and my expectations were definitely exceeded in that I was presented with unique flavours not present in younger cigars. Also, the level of refinement/smoothness is unparalleled. I thought it was hype but for the most part it rings true. The only "dud" I've had was a Dom Perignon from 1986. It was weak in terms of flavour, though it was a great experience anyway. I could say I've smoked one but not young when it was probably a lot more flavourful. OTOH, a 1970 Davidoff No 1 was a pleasure to smoke. Lots of flavours, medium to full bodied, especially past the halfway point. From what older, more experienced smokers tell me, the Dom P was blended for "posers" who wanted to look cool with a big expensive cigar that didn't make them feel sick (hence, a weak blend).

[MPS]

I have smoked some epic vintage and collectible cigars. I have also smoked mediocre and crap stuff. I don't chase it anymore as I just don't think it's worth it. I have much more success with the cigars I have aged myself or new production.

I am also lucky to be smoking a ton of custom rolled cigars that are my absolute favorite.

In the end I like a richer cigar that you just rarely find in real vintage stuff. I guess I'm glad I never really caught the bug as it's super expensive. So many cigars are hit and miss even when they have been stored properly. You really have to have a keen eye and a deep pocket.

[melies]

Have been very lucky with the vintage ones almost always work the spot.

[KoreanCowboy]

I have yet to smoke any cigar over 10 years of age that has any remarkable flavors left. All are very mild with little to no spice and all seem to have a slight citrus peel sourness to them. I haven't smoked many vintage stocks but I've had sticks from every decade going back to 1964 and honestly anything past 2005 has just been a huge disappointment.

[RijkdeGooier]

I mostly smoke between 5-15 year old sticks with the medium around 10-12 years old.

Pro's

Refined delivery of sugar/fruit/spice tastes that were not very perceptible when the tannins were more dominant

Con's

If not properly stored (or crap to begin with) the strength sometimes suffers, giving a blander smoke

I tend to smoke one from the box before buying when unsure of provenance.

Quality of the prime material and storage (thus provenance) is extremely important.

[dvickery]

Welllllllll rob ... By your definition ... Pretty much all I smoke are vintage cigars .

Neither do I seek them out or pay a premium for them ... I just buy way more than I smoke .

I am more or less always happy with what I smoke ... '97and '98 are starting to be really good to great ... About '89 to about '93 is where the sweet spot is for me .

Derrek

[canadianbeaver]

Glad you very specific about the years though the fellow that first schooled me in this category would call 15 aged I believe and move to 25-50 for vintage. Dan is both generous in cigars and info.

I have been been foolish in my purchases and wise, depending on which side of the collection I start with I guess. Either way, I would rather focus on the most beautiful 2005-2011before venturing before 2001 again.