Lifting The Embargo. The Good The Bad The Ugly

[Garrettbuckeye]

If the embargo was put in place to stop communism... Why was Cuba the only country? And has it worked?

I don't believe lifting the embargo will stop it either. Access to clean water, food, medicine... Those might help the people though.

[Ginseng]

Now we have a good chunk of our country thinking that communism is the preferred way to go. Our children and their children will be slaves to the state in the same way the majority of Cubans are now — should this trend continue.

This is quite the provocative assertion. One that I do not think is even close to supportable.

I think it best to leave that rest and focus on the original intent of the thread: Cuban cigars.

Wilkey

[Garrettbuckeye]

Imagine a mechanic in Cuba, who has to smuggle in brake pads, and risk a $65,000 fine if he's caught. I think access to cheap available products will help.

[Garrettbuckeye]

Agreed Wilkey. I friggin love Cuban cigars. I love me some NC too though... Im just a lover.

[CaptainQuintero]

 

The only thing that will help the Cuban people is getting rid of the oppressive regime there, has nothing to do with a US embargo. Cuba is free to trade with every other country in the world except the US so how will the people there benefit from my country?

You have to remember that Bush Sr put in legislation that effectively means that companies have to pick to choose to do business with either the US or Cuba. Banking in a big way was affected here. Any ship that docks in Cuba can't dock anywhere in the US for 180 days.

Cuba isn't really free to trade with the rest of the world, it has the pick of the scraps.

[Geaux]

This is quite the provocative assertion. One that I do not think is even close to supportable.

I think it best to leave that rest and focus on the original intent of the thread: Cuban cigars.

Wilkey

Not wanting to break rules here... Hard not to talk US politics on this subject.... but did send you a pm on this.

[Geaux]

If you don't already think that your children and their children are and will be a slave to the state then I'm afraid you're mistaken. As long as your/our countries are in debt to the extent that they are then we are all slaves to varying degrees. But I digress...

Agreed - but I still think there is hope. But it takes calling a spade a spade --- and honest thought-filled conversations. The ship has not sunk yet.

[wabashcr]

Economic benefit is one driver, however, I think more often the overt goal is geopolitical leverage that, in some cases, results in the stability that enables resource exploitation. Note, I'm not making a value judgment on this, just putting a name to observations to try and stay within the bounds of what's allowable for discussion.

Wilkey

I think that's fair, and I don't disagree. Thanks for the reminder about the forum rules. I know we're not supposed to talk US policy here. Just an oversight on my part.

I do not think giving communist controlled countries the benefit of the doubt is ever reasonable. To say that more money poured in to Cuba will eventually help the poor is to give the benefit of the doubt to the Communist Cuban Government. Until somebody can show me where it (communism) has ever worked - I will remain most unreasonable in my postion.

I think that's a bit too black and white. While I don't disagree about the larger point of communism's well documented failures, the world is a much different place than it was 25 years ago. Cuba needs to be viewed in that context. Even the Cuban regime is starting to understand their brand of communism is untenable in the long run.

[Smallclub]

But history has proven that communism provides a conduit for the powerful few to get everything and decide what is best for the rest with out their consultation. The majority remains poor and helpless until the peasants can revolt... if they can.

The sentence remains true if you replace "communism" with many other political regimes. Do you realise that 1% of the richest will soon possess half the world's wealth

(according, among others, to a study by Oxfam, published shortly before the Economic Forum in Davos and made from data from the bank Credit Suisse.)

[canadianbeaver]

Here is what the display will look like at your local Quikee-Mart

[Cletus]

The sentence remains true if you replace "communism" with many other political regimes. Do you realise that 1% of the richest will soon possess half the world's wealth

(according, among others, to a study by Oxfam, published shortly before the Economic Forum in Davos and made from data from the bank Credit Suisse.)

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

-Winston Churchill

[LordAnubis]

My favourite Churchill quote was "The greatest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter" .. or something to that effect.

[Smallclub]

Quotation:

The act of repeating erroneously the words of another.

Ambrose Bierce

[laficion]

Hi all,

W. Churchill said once,"Socialism and Communism Is the equal sharing of poverty" Great man and a great mind he was !!!!!!!.

Guy

[earthson]

The real issue, I think, is the understanding of communism. Communism is evil. It is set up under a cleaver lie that everybody shares everything. Sounds fair.... But history has proven that communism provides a conduit for the powerful few to get everything and decide what is best for the rest with out their consultation. The majority remains poor and helpless until the peasants can revolt... if they can.

It saddens me, because all Americans use to know this. Now we have a good chunk of our country thinking that communism is the preferred way to go. Our children and their children will be slaves to the state in the same way the majority of Cubans are now — should this trend continue.

It sounds like you described Socialism (where an elite hold everything in trust for the populace), rather than Communism (where there is no elite and everything is held in common). It's similar to folks who spoke about "Communist Russia" during the Red Scare, when, in the very name USSR, the nation was described as a Socialist Republic.

If anything binds a nation to slavery, it is debt, not political ideology.

Remember, hunter and gatherer cultures successfully proved the viability of communism for thousands of years, until greed, genocide, "progress," and "convert or die," was imposed upon them. To refuse to separate political ideology with bad actors who advance it is to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Smallclub]

If anything binds a nation to slavery, it is debt, not political ideology.

Bingo!