MIKA27 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Chin up buddy. Some people are fishers, and some people are biters. Don't bite. It encourages the fishers. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonVivant Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Can we not let our Spanish brothers enjoy the cigars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Is that really the purpose of the regional program? I'm not aware so pardon my ignorance. If the plpc is not popular, how does hsa introducing this cigar intend to increase its popularity, merely by price point? Kindly enlighten me. That doesn't explain why people in the states are scrambling for them, though. Forgive me, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. What I was trying to say is, for those of us with access to duty-free cigars online, i.e. all of us, it can be easy to forget that cigars are more expensive on the high street in nearly all countries, often much more so. The regional releases are there for a number of reasons. The distributer gets something "special" every now and then for their retailers. At this stage I'm sure Habanos know there are collectors of these things everywhere and that boosts sales. But the idea of the Regional program, originally, was to boost brand awareness in a market, i.e. that Por Larranaga exists. I've been in plenty of cigar shops in Spain with not a single Por Larranaga on the shelf. Now there are. That in turn might help sales of the regular vitolas in a brand. I'm sure the strategy has worked on some people, somewhere. The PLPC is 4.55 euro in Spain, actually a bit less than I thought, the Secreto is well priced at 3.85. A big difference is that a whole box can be bought for less than 100 euro. I think it's a nice size, nicely packaged and a very good price. Habanos have made stranger decisions. People in the States and elsewhere scramble for them because there are people who want them. There are people who try to collect boxes of all the regionals, there's nothing wrong with that, it's a hobby. There are people who believe that regional release cigars are generally well made, there might be something to that. There are people who like having hard to find cigars. There's nothing wrong with that either. People don't want "choice", people want exactly what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Very hard to find regulars pl's in spain. On a recent holliday there I went to more than ten cigar shops without any luck - most of them didnt even know the brand. Was trying to find pl mc, listed price 2,8€ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I disagree strongly with the assertion that the intent of the Regionals was to increase brand awareness. Even if that was the claim at some point. The intent of the Regionals was to increase sales revenue per cigar. Compare a Regional robusto price to the price of any regular run robusto. Sorry but you're wrong: • When the JL Obus RE France was released, it was the cheapest cigar of that size (campañas/belicoso) in France. Two euros less than Sancho Panza or the RyJ belicoso… • In Spain, the Diplomaticos Collecion Privada, at €6.70, is cheaper than the Hoyo petit robusto, which is exactly the same size… • The Bolivar DC Middle East was not an expensive cigar on this market; priced in the same range than the other DCs, maybe less… and there are some others… like the two Fonseca, one for Benelux, the other for France, which are very well priced for their size and, given their quality, can be seen as an incentive to pay attention to the marca… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainQuintero Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The Spanish cigar scene is being hit pretty hard, cheap CC favourites are being swapped out for Villiger etc I think HSA is doing everything it can to stop that market base from collapsing eg cheap REs, access to new cheap cigars first (Quintero favoritos and RG Perlas) I think if you are outside of Europe it's hard to grasp how badly Spain is coping right now. I'm sure Greece would be getting the same HSA treatment if it was as big as a market players as Spain is Remember advertising tobacco products is also illegal in the EU, if the Spanish CC market goes then it is essentially gone forever; it's easier to fight to keep the life support on with these releases than try to start the process fresh a decade down the line when Spain is in a better place 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I disagree strongly with the assertion that the intent of the Regionals was to increase brand awareness. Even if that was the claim at some point. The intent of the Regionals was to increase sales revenue per cigar. Compare a Regional robusto price to the price of any regular run robusto. With very few exceptions, Cuba effectively increased the price of quite a few cigars with some simple packaging changes. Yes, the blends differ, but is the tobacco any more costly at the production point ? The other factor that leads to my disagreement has been the input solicited from the distributors. Does anyone really believe that HSA has the marketing goal of increasing "awareness" of the Ramon Allones" line ? Sell a million cigars at $8 each, or sell essentially the same product with some packaging changes for $16 ? Brand awareness my ass You are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 You are right. Not really… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevieboy Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I disagree strongly with the assertion that the intent of the Regionals was to increase brand awareness. Even if that was the claim at some point. The intent of the Regionals was to increase sales revenue per cigar. Compare a Regional robusto price to the price of any regular run robusto. With very few exceptions, Cuba effectively increased the price of quite a few cigars with some simple packaging changes. Yes, the blends differ, but is the tobacco any more costly at the production point ? The other factor that leads to my disagreement has been the input solicited from the distributors. Does anyone really believe that HSA has the marketing goal of increasing "awareness" of the Ramon Allones" line ? Sell a million cigars at $8 each, or sell essentially the same product with some packaging changes for $16 ? Brand awareness my ass Of course HSA are driven by sales. Any business that isn't will fail. By increasing the awareness, they will increase sales. If you double the price, you'll probably get half the sales. But by reducing the price a la PL Secretos , you'll probably increase sales thus increasing brand awareness thus increasing sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Not really… Oui. Abandonner, grenouille Like your avatar, you are shooting yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Smallclub (and others) on point as usual. Still doesn't make a difference. If this PL fails at 8000 boxes, it will be a blow for the Spanish market in the long run imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Oui. Abandonner, grenouille Like your avatar, you are shooting yourself! you obviously don't understand a single point in this discussion, and you're becoming insulting and unpleasant. Now please go back to your toys and let the grownups talk. tss tss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 you obviously don't understand a single point in this discussion, and you're becoming insulting and unpleasant. Now please go back to your toys and let the grownups talk. tss tss Insulting? Sorry, mon ami. Tell me more about your point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 As for cigars in the same breath as the economy /unemployment, all I can say is, you have to be kidding. Until recently, France was the first market of premium habanos, Spain was the first market IN QUANTITY. You really think a gloomy economy and a huge unemployment has no effect on the sales of entry level cigars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxman Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Interesting topic and very informative, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Remember advertising tobacco products is also illegal in the EU, if the Spanish CC market goes then it is essentially gone forever; True, and I don't believe HSA can afford to lose this market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Until recently, France was the first market of premium habanos, Spain was the first market IN QUANTITY. You really think a gloomy economy and a huge unemployment has no effect on the sales of entry level cigars? You can't be sure of that unless you work at Habanos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 You can't be sure of that unless you work at Habanos. In a press conference during the opening of the 15th Habano Festival, Mrs. Ana Lopez, head of Market Operations, said that habanos sales rose last year despite the ongoing economic crisis in some of the most important European markets including No. 1 buyer Spain… It was reported in many magazines online editions… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 In a press conference during the opening of the 15th Habano Festival, Mrs. Ana Lopez, head of Market Operations, said that habanos sales rose last year despite the ongoing economic crisis in some of the most important European markets including No. 1 buyer Spain… It was reported in many magazines online editions… Yes, you can't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainQuintero Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 As for cigars in the same breath as the economy /unemployment, all I can say is, you have to be kidding. It's a reality wether you choose to accept it or not, doing a few days of the tourist scene isn't going to show the real Spain and how it's struggling or how cigars are a huge part of daily life for a lot of people, obviously not tour guides as much Millions of Piedra and Quintero etc are consumed but as incomes are being hit the Villiger style cigars are being resorted to. If HSA can say "instead of smoking two Villiger today smoke one Perla/Quintero/PL RE" they are succeeding in preserving one of their most important markets during that markets massive economic downturn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Festa Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 All I meant was cigars are a luxury item if you are worried about your job or the economy. We here on FOH drop a couple of of hundred impulsively. I kind of forgot about the lowest price offerings.I have what I call the $25. theory. I came up with it when I started my little coffee company. Basically $25 will buy you approx Half a pound of my Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee One of my more interesting cigars A decent steak at my nearby store A plate of oysters at a nice restaurant A couple of glasses of scotch at a restaurant A decent bottle of wine A person who likes one will probably like the other(s), so keep this in mind if you are in this market or buying a gift. This is my opinion only of course. Your opinion is actually an economic principle, and a fact known as 'Opportunity Cost.' Which is the value of the next best option, and the choice forgone. As for the rest of the discussion everyone... Yes, Spain isn't doing great economically. But there are millions if people in Spain. There is a solid tourism industry. Cigars have a strong online presence, and the PL Secretos are small and affordable. To fully understand why this regional program will not fail is to wrap our heads around numbers. Whether there are 5000 or 8000 of these boxes produced. It only takes 500 or 800 people to buy 10 boxes. I personally feel I already know 8 to 10 of these people. Finally, HSA know what they can sell in Spain from previous experience. And the PL line are very pretty cigars, which helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Your opinion is actually an economic principle, and a fact known as 'Opportunity Cost.' Which is the value of the next best option, and the choice forgone. As for the rest of the discussion everyone... Yes, Spain isn't doing great economically. But there are millions if people in Spain. There is a solid tourism industry. Cigars have a strong online presence, and the PL Secretos are small and affordable. To fully understand why this regional program will not fail is to wrap our heads around numbers. Whether there are 5000 or 8000 of these boxes produced. It only takes 500 or 800 people to buy 10 boxes. I personally feel I already know 8 to 10 of these people. Finally, HSA know what they can sell in Spain from previous experience. And the PL line are very pretty cigars, which helps. Didn't realize Spain was allowed selling cigars online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafner32 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Didn't realize Spain was allowed selling cigars online. It was always explained to me that this is true, however a google search provides a site with an address in Madrid with these for sale. So perhaps while established estancias cannot sell online, others have found a way around the Spanish laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramon_cojones Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'm sure that you must have meant that you disagree. I can't imagine you being arrogant enough to categorically state that your word is gospel. For every example you provide there are a dozen of others examples where the RE is priced considerably higher than the same sized cigar within its market...dozens. Your examples are the exceptions as opposed to the rule, and very few at that. Your citation of the speech by Ana Lopez was out of context as "sales increase" can as easily be explained by the increase being an increase in income brought about by the introduction of dozens of higher priced vitolas. Any increase in numbers was logically explained by market expansion ( read that China). Evidently you have a deep seated problem with folks disagreeing with you, combined with an inability to admit the possibility that you are mistaken. You might consider whether France really needed a brand awareness boost for QdO ? And Montecristo in Mexico ? Why don't we just let everybody compare the prices of Regionals to regular run cigars and let them decide for themselves whether the motive is brand awareness or profit ? That might prove more telling than a wave of your scepter with a blanket "You are wrong" i thought it was amusing he listed the few exceptions to the rule as well yay there is a like button, i was gonna suggest this! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So perhaps while established estancias cannot sell online, others have found a way around the Spanish laws. These "others" are scammers, and pretty well known as such in Europe. If you purchase from them I would bet you have some fakes in your stash… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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