Why Jay Gruden Will Work In DC

[TheCoach]

I guess we all know now that Jay Gruden has been selected as the Washington Redskins next head coach. With The Redskins being a big market franchise, ladened with media speculation, and expectations. There have been whispers already from "Sources" that he's not the sexy pick that was expected. Moreover, his bloodline, and last name have more to do with his hiring than his actual qualifications. Also, there have been general managers around the league that have ran to their nearest antagonizing, muckraking, media source to offer their assessment of Jay Gruden as a head coach in the NFL. One Defensive Coordinator is quoted for saying "I like him, but his offense wasn’t more creative than any other coordinator out there". Nothing can be farther from the truth. Jay Grunden's offense is based out the the West Coast Offense which is beautiful for Robert Griffin III. This offense is predicated on short effective passing route concepts (smash, china, sluggo seam, posse, etc.) coupled with a physical running game between the tackles (inside zone, iso, lead, zone read, etc.) out of 10,11,12,13, 20, 21, 22, 23 personnel (First number RB, Second number TE / Ex: 1 Back 2 TE = 12). Not to mention great screen and play action packages that stem off of those plays. With all that the west coast offense brings to the table from a ball movement attack, the heart and sole of the offense is timing. The philosophy of getting the ball out of the quarterbacks hands quickly is the main focus, preserving the timing on routes, controlling the tempo of the game, and to PROTECT THE QUARTERBACK! As a life long redskins fan i am thrilled to get the one out of the three candidates i wanted as a head coach (Zimmer, Greg Roman). Bruce Allen has finally openly admitted that he was the one to blame for past personnel picks for the team. Morocco Brown has chosen to stay with the franchise (for now) even though he's one of the hottest GM prospects in the NFL today, and with reports of Sean McVay taking over as the offensive coordinator, and not actually calling the plays, which gives him a better hands on approach with RGIII seems like the offensive approach this team needs. Kyle Shanahan's offense was good, lets not forget that for how horrible our record was we still were top 10 offense this season. I say all of that to say this, the Redskins have a Hardware problem, nothing is wrong with the software. The Offense thats was here before Gruden worked, and the offense Gruden will bring in works even better. The same thing with the defense. We have a Hardware issue, the software is fine. The 34 scheme, work just fine, and trust me we have the right coaches in place to run it. However, we have almost laughable talent (hardware) at some positions on the roster. With an added $33,581,070 in cap room coming this off season, expect the Skins' to be very active in free agency this year. I tried my best to stick with what i know to support my argument in this post. The narrative that Jay Gruden got the job because/instead of Jon Gruden is LAME! How soon we forget that Jon Gruden was TRADED to the Tampa Bay Bucs for draft picks. He inherited a Tony Dungy team that was already put in order, and when he was coaching the offense they only had 2 double digit win seasons in 7 years. He won a Super Bowl the very first year he came to Tampa Bay, and played his former team. I don't war to take anything away from Jon Gruden. But the not on that his name holds so much weight that it go his brother the Skins job, is crazy to me.

[Ken Gargett]

yeah, the 'got it because of his name' argument always sounded bizarre to me. not even synder would shell out massive dosh for just because of a brother. i could see the 'got it because he was a mate of allen's' being possible.

just posted on the other skins coaching thread as to why i don't believe that this is a dead end job and there is plenty in the above post to support that (for reasons expressed far more accurately than i could manage). i mentioned some of the top talent we have but they need a lot of support. i should have mentioned hall as well - thought he had an excellent season, in the circumstances.

to 'thecoach', be interested in who you see them dumping and who you think has to stay.

[El Presidente]

Not taking anything away from John Gruden but he inherited a pretty good machine and system developed by Dungy at the Bucs.

It was Dungy (and a very good team around him) who took them from laughing stocks to a competitive unit.

By the time Gruden finished....we were laughing stocks again ...but at least we had the 2002 SuperBowl

[Stanislaw]

Not to derail the thread but what do you (Prez) feel about former bears coach lovie smith as your new head coach?

[TheCoach]

yeah, the 'got it because of his name' argument always sounded bizarre to me. not even synder would shell out massive dosh for just because of a brother. i could see the 'got it because he was a mate of allen's' being possible.

just posted on the other skins coaching thread as to why i don't believe that this is a dead end job and there is plenty in the above post to support that (for reasons expressed far more accurately than i could manage). i mentioned some of the top talent we have but they need a lot of support. i should have mentioned hall as well - thought he had an excellent season, in the circumstances.

to 'thecoach', be interested in who you see them dumping and who you think has to stay.

On the Offense: Tyler Polombus OT, Santana Moss WR, Josh Morgan WR, Aldrick Robinson WR(pending on the free agency/draft) Kory Lichtensteiger OG, Fred Davis TE(to free agency), Evan Royster RB, Jawan Jamison RB, Josh LeRibeus OG, Marice Hurt OG, Will Mongomery OC, Nick Williams WR, Josh Bellamy WR, Dezmone Briscoe WR, Maurice Hurt OT, Rex Grossman QB

One the Defense: Josh Wilson CB, Adam Carricker DE, London Fletcher LB, Chris Neild NT, Jordan Pugh, Daryl Tapp LB, Doug Worthington DE, Brian Orakpo (free agency, even though i know we're gonna keep him knowing he doesn't deserve the payday) Brandon Merriwether S, Chase Minnefield CB, Nick Barnett LB, Chris Baker NT, Jose Gumbs CB

Kickers: Sav Rocca

[El Presidente]

Not to derail the thread but what do you (Prez) feel about former bears coach lovie smith as your new head coach?

Lovie knows Tampa, likes Tampa and is inheriting a very good squad with draft picks to boot. Lovie was flicked from Chigago in his last season with a 10-6 record.

We would kill for a 10-6 record!

The criticism of Lovie was he was an offensive disaster. Mind you he did take Chicago to the SB and Divisional champions twice from memory.

Team him with a good OC and he should do well.

[El Presidente]

On the Offense: Tyler Polombus OT, Santana Moss WR, Josh Morgan WR, Aldrick Robinson WR(pending on the free agency/draft) Kory Lichtensteiger OG, Fred Davis TE(to free agency), Evan Royster RB, Jawan Jamison RB, Josh LeRibeus OG, Marice Hurt OG, Will Mongomery OC, Nick Williams WR, Josh Bellamy WR, Dezmone Briscoe WR, Maurice Hurt OT, Rex Grossman QB

One the Defense: Josh Wilson CB, Adam Carricker DE, London Fletcher LB, Chris Neild NT, Jordan Pugh, Daryl Tapp LB, Doug Worthington DE, Brian Orakpo (free agency, even though i know we're gonna keep him knowing he doesn't deserve the payday) Brandon Merriwether S, Chase Minnefield CB, Nick Barnett LB, Chris Baker NT, Jose Gumbs CB

Kickers: Sav Rocca

Nice work Coach!

[TheCoach]

Not taking anything away from John Gruden but he inherited a pretty good machine and system developed by Dungy at the Bucs.

It was Dungy (and a very good team around him) who took them from laughing stocks to a competitive unit.

By the time Gruden finished....we were laughing stocks again ...but at least we had the 2002 SuperBowl

My point exactly, so this supposed "advantage" that Jay Gruden is cashing in on his last name is rediculous to me. Jon had the fire, but he got set up in the best way possible to the Bucs. Tony Dungy got fired because he got burned out, his son had committed suicide, he tried to negotiate a new contract and the team was in the middle of one of its worst seasons under his coaching. Jon Gruden is a GREAT offensive mind. But a legend HE IS NOT...

[TheCoach]

Lovie knows Tampa, likes Tampa and is inheriting a very good squad with draft picks to boot. Lovie was flicked from Chigago in his last season with a 10-6 record.

We would kill for a 10-6 record!

The criticism of Lovie was he was an offensive disaster. Mind you he did take Chicago to the SB and Divisional champions twice from memory.

Team him with a good OC and he should do well.

Don't forget that this is a home coming for Lovie Smith guys. He coached under Tony Dungy in Tampa for five years as the linebackers coach before he went to St. Louis as the Defensive Coordinator. The best thing about Lovie's hire is that he learned from his mistakes in Chicago, the first guy he hired to his staff was Jeff Tedford. An AMAZING offensive mind.

[El Presidente]

Dungy was an excellent coach and an even better man. It was a tragic way to exit.

That is not to say Gruden was not well liked and a SB ring is a "win" in anyones language. Yet the team was spent by the time he left with no rebuilding. It was certainly not his sole fault....the glazers never liked to spend on the Bucs.

That is what made Dungy special. little coin and he still made a circus into a defensive powerhouse.

[TheCoach]

Dungy was an excellent coach and an even better man. It was a tragic way to exit.

That is not to say Gruden was not well liked and a SB ring is a "win" in anyones language. Yet the team was spent by the time he left with no rebuilding. It was certainly not his sole fault....the glazers never liked to spend on the Bucs.

That is what made Dungy special. little coin and he still made a circus into a defensive powerhouse.

Couldn't agree more. The glazers are notoriously known ( but fall short of the eagles) to be incredibly frugal. Then they break the trend and let Raheem Morris, and Greg Schiano got crazy with the books. It seems that they don't know they're happy median yet. Bruce Allen did a fairly good job with the Bucs with Jon Gruden. He came right after the Super Bowl. So i don't really trust Bruce Allen just yet as a GM. Two 11-5 seasons two 9-7 seasons one 4-12 season in 2006 before being fired doesn't really jump off the resume.

[El Presidente]

And finally on the Bucs of 2014. No Greg Schiano.

Now he did manage to clean out the trash (drug takers, layabouts etal) and he should be admired for that. Yet you have to inspire and have the belief of your players. he had zip of that. Lovie is a players coach. They play for him as much if not more than for their paycheck. it would be a nice change at the Bucs.

[El Presidente]

Couldn't agree more. The glazers are notoriously known ( but fall short of the eagles) to be incredibly frugal. Then they break the trend and let Raheem Morris, and Greg Schiano got crazy with the books.

Unless I am mistaken Coach the impending "minimum spend limit" had a lot to do with that. how the glazers must hate that rule. Bucs were spending around 50 million less on players per season than the benchmark teams.

[TheCoach]

Couldn't agree more... the Lovie Smith is a huge players Coach... Greg Schiano had a serious flaw in his coaching methods... He ran the team like it was college. I can see you cleaning up the culture, but if you don't make an attempt to respect a man for what he does for a living and build a trust off of that respect, then your as good as gone the NFL. Coached who do very well in college tend to have a warden approach to running their team. They control way to much of the dynamics. You can't choose captains in the pros, you can get away with that in college. When a player is off the clock the respect that you have for them makes them stay at the facility longer to work o their craft. But if you make it a hell hole there, you'll only see players when they're obligated to deal with you. That type of atmosphere bleeds onto the field during games. Coaches in college never deal with these issues because they have all the leverage, players aren't paid, they have t g to class, and they are always in a position of need from coaches. When you go to the pros, they entire situation is flipped. Players make more than coaches, and the coach has no leverage. Being a leader of men, is defined when they CHOOSE to follow you. Not because they need you. Thats why most college coaches never make it in the pros. Gotta be a manager of personalities, savvy in the media, and a great communicator to you r staff and your owner and front office.

[Ken Gargett]

On the Offense: Tyler Polombus OT, Santana Moss WR, Josh Morgan WR, Aldrick Robinson WR(pending on the free agency/draft) Kory Lichtensteiger OG, Fred Davis TE(to free agency), Evan Royster RB, Jawan Jamison RB, Josh LeRibeus OG, Marice Hurt OG, Will Mongomery OC, Nick Williams WR, Josh Bellamy WR, Dezmone Briscoe WR, Maurice Hurt OT, Rex Grossman QB

One the Defense: Josh Wilson CB, Adam Carricker DE, London Fletcher LB, Chris Neild NT, Jordan Pugh, Daryl Tapp LB, Doug Worthington DE, Brian Orakpo (free agency, even though i know we're gonna keep him knowing he doesn't deserve the payday) Brandon Merriwether S, Chase Minnefield CB, Nick Barnett LB, Chris Baker NT, Jose Gumbs CB

Kickers: Sav Rocca

it is an interesting list.

sav should be first out. he was an idiot when he played aussie rules. no better now. it has always been a matter of great shame to me that the skins have a pie on their roster.

if moss was relatively cheap and keen, i'd keep him. some old heads never hurt. but he'd be well down the order. robinson has speed and jellyhands. i'd be keen to see how well we can upgrade at WR before those to go. rex is very cheap and if cousins goes, having rex around might help. unless we plan on drafting/free agency for another running back, i'd keep one of those two. injury to alfred and we'd be short. thought gumbs showed a bit in his few opportunities. carricker has been injured so much, hard to know. orakpo is the tough decision. he is going to be very expensive but i think you are right. they'll keep him. would they put the franchise tag on him?

the rest? as soon as possible.

next question. any free agents you think that they are highly likely to chase?

[TheCoach]

Pres,

Tampa Bay isn't exactly a big market, they're dead set in the middle of football country, hundreds of miles away from another NFL market competitor. Fiscally, they get paid whoever fills the stands. The margins out there are huge!

[TheCoach]

it is an interesting list.

sav should be first out. he was an idiot when he played aussie rules. no better now. it has always been a matter of great shame to me that the skins have a pie on their roster.

if moss was relatively cheap and keen, i'd keep him. some old heads never hurt. but he'd be well down the order. robinson has speed and jellyhands. i'd be keen to see how well we can upgrade at WR before those to go. rex is very cheap and if cousins goes, having rex around might help. unless we plan on drafting/free agency for another running back, i'd keep one of those two. injury to alfred and we'd be short. thought gumbs showed a bit in his few opportunities. carricker has been injured so much, hard to know. orakpo is the tough decision. he is going to be very expensive but i think you are right. they'll keep him. would they put the franchise tag on him?

the rest? as soon as possible.

next question. any free agents you think that they are highly likely to chase?

YES!!!!

First, we must be careful in free agency, the philosophy should be "adequate upgrade" at most positions. Most (if not all) positions we need to fill are deficient. How do i determine that? Well, watching on-field performance is the first key, but even that can get dangerous. Football is so teamwork intensive that its hard to really see who plays horribly, as it applies to their job for that game, on each series, during each play. So i go with a popular rule of thumb, amongst coaches during scouting... "Can this player retain his same position on the top 25% of the rosters in our league?" Then you rate those guys accordingly due to the talent market in free agency on their respective side of the ball whether it be offense or defense. We can't hit a home run with every swing. But there are some that we should knock clear out of the park. ill start with those first.

Areas of immediate need: O-Line, Secondary, Receivers

Top Oline Free Agent Targets 2014: We need a RT and a G/C so possibly 2 of the these would be great or least one, keep the draft in mind.

Branden Albert [OT, Kansas City Chiefs] Eugene Monroe [OT, Jacksonville Jaguars]

Wade Smith [OG, Houston Texans] Michael Oher [OT, Baltimore Ravens]

Alex Mack [C, Cleveland Browns] Jared Veldheer [OT, Oakland Raiders]

I would love to acquire Alex Mack and Jared Veldheer, Alex would take over at Center and Jared would finally solidify our Right tackles spot which hasn't been the same since John Jansen retired.

Top Secondary Free Agent Targets 2014: We really need Safties BAD and possibly a corner. but this is position where we need a "plug n play" acquisition we need atleast one safety right away.

SAFETIES

Jairus Byrd [buffalo Bills] ( I want him soooooo Bad!)

TJ Ward [Cleveland Browns] (Still not a bad pick up if we get him)

Donte Whitner [san Francisco 49ers] (Really can't go bad with him either)

Antoine Bethea [indianapolis Colts] (MEH...)

Ryan Clark [Pittsburgh Steelers] (OLD!!!! but still better than what we have, a band aid to our problems instead of a surgery)

I would put corners up but i doubt we use money on a high free agency pick at corner... We can find that on our roster or in the draft... Even though my money is that we finally get Aqib Talib from New England to help us out. We should have had him last year but we couldn't afford him. And he gave us a discount and we still couldn't get the deal done. So that should ge to show you what kind of financial shape we have been in over the last 2 seasons.

Top Wide Receiver Free Agent Targets 2014:

Hakeem Nicks [New York Giants] (Doubt we get him)

Anquan Boldin [san Francisco 49ers] (Not a lot of tread left, but we'll see)

Eric Decker [Denver Broncos] (Great "System Guy" but he's a possibility)

Kenny Britt [Tennessee Titans] (Great Size, and Speed known to be an under achiever, but still upgrades our roster on his worst day)

Jeremy Maclin [Philadelphia Eagles] ( I would love to lock this guy up! My Pick for sure, i could really see him falling to us because 1. We would pay him and have the ability to pay hm his desired contract 2. Desean Jackson wants a new contract. This has all the makings of him walking away from Philly)

So I of course we can't get them all but if i had to bet on it. I would say our Free Agent guys would be Maclin, Byrd, Mack, and Veldheer. This would be a great start, coupled with the draft and smaller deals to add depth to the roster.

[Ken Gargett]

YES!!!!

First, we must be careful in free agency, the philosophy should be "adequate upgrade" at most positions. Most (if not all) positions we need to fill are deficient. How do i determine that? Well, watching on-field performance is the first key, but even that can get dangerous. Football is so teamwork intensive that its hard to really see who plays horribly, as it applies to their job for that game, on each series, during each play. So i go with a popular rule of thumb, amongst coaches during scouting... "Can this player retain his same position on the top 25% of the rosters in our league?" Then you rate those guys accordingly due to the talent market in free agency on their respective side of the ball whether it be offense or defense. We can't hit a home run with every swing. But there are some that we should knock clear out of the park. ill start with those first.

Areas of immediate need: O-Line, Secondary, Receivers

Top Oline Free Agent Targets 2014: We need a RT and a G/C so possibly 2 of the these would be great or least one, keep the draft in mind.

Branden Albert [OT, Kansas City Chiefs] Eugene Monroe [OT, Jacksonville Jaguars]

Wade Smith [OG, Houston Texans] Michael Oher [OT, Baltimore Ravens]

Alex Mack [C, Cleveland Browns] Jared Veldheer [OT, Oakland Raiders]

I would love to acquire Alex Mack and Jared Veldheer, Alex would take over at Center and Jared would finally solidify our Right tackles spot which hasn't been the same since John Jansen retired.

Top Secondary Free Agent Targets 2014: We really need Safties BAD and possibly a corner. but this is position where we need a "plug n play" acquisition we need atleast one safety right away.

SAFETIES

Jairus Byrd [buffalo Bills] ( I want him soooooo Bad!)

TJ Ward [Cleveland Browns] (Still not a bad pick up if we get him)

Donte Whitner [san Francisco 49ers] (Really can't go bad with him either)

Antoine Bethea [indianapolis Colts] (MEH...)

Ryan Clark [Pittsburgh Steelers] (OLD!!!! but still better than what we have, a band aid to our problems instead of a surgery)

I would put corners up but i doubt we use money on a high free agency pick at corner... We can find that on our roster or in the draft... Even though my money is that we finally get Aqib Talib from New England to help us out. We should have had him last year but we couldn't afford him. And he gave us a discount and we still couldn't get the deal done. So that should ge to show you what kind of financial shape we have been in over the last 2 seasons.

Top Wide Receiver Free Agent Targets 2014:

Hakeem Nicks [New York Giants] (Doubt we get him)

Anquan Boldin [san Francisco 49ers] (Not a lot of tread left, but we'll see)

Eric Decker [Denver Broncos] (Great "System Guy" but he's a possibility)

Kenny Britt [Tennessee Titans] (Great Size, and Speed known to be an under achiever, but still upgrades our roster on his worst day)

Jeremy Maclin [Philadelphia Eagles] ( I would love to lock this guy up! My Pick for sure, i could really see him falling to us because 1. We would pay him and have the ability to pay hm his desired contract 2. Desean Jackson wants a new contract. This has all the makings of him walking away from Philly)

So I of course we can't get them all but if i had to bet on it. I would say our Free Agent guys would be Maclin, Byrd, Mack, and Veldheer. This would be a great start, coupled with the draft and smaller deals to add depth to the roster.

thanks for all that.

i really thought they'd find a way with byrd or talib last year but the money was beyond hope, i guess.

boldin moving again would not be a good sign? ditto decker?

they have to start with the OL surely. no point in having rg3 if we allow the crap to get beaten out of him every week.

from what i have read, maclin is on the radar.

hard to see the giants losing nicks given the poor year eli had. surely he'd want his top WR there next year?

with the safeties, we have thomas coming back? i guess jury still very much out, but he was a second round pick - it is sort of like having an extra second round pick, in a way. offload cousins for another (any thoughts on that?). makes the draft look healthier. if thomas steps up, be a big help, though i guess you can't expect too much this next season. rambo was a bit of a disappointment but i guess he was a 6th round rookie? tough expecting him to be a starter straight up, especially in that mess.

but the key is as you say, doing it properly. we really can't afford any more haynesworth, sanders or mcnabb crap. huge money for has-beens.

when does free agency start?

[TheCoach]

Don't forget we have the 34th pick overall this year in the draft... Just 2 picks outside of the first round so we should be able find first round talent this year with no problem, Also look for us to trade down with that pick if we feel like we want to recoup picks... Kirk isn't going anywhere... He has great skill a live arm, adequate accuracy, but he's far from being polished. We still need him for developemental reasons. His trade stock took a beating these last 2 games of the season for obvious reasons. Free Agency starts March 11th 4pm eastern time...

[Ken Gargett]

Don't forget we have the 34th pick overall this year in the draft... Just 2 picks outside of the first round so we should be able find first round talent this year with no problem, Also look for us to trade down with that pick if we feel like we want to recoup picks... Kirk isn't going anywhere... He has great skill a live arm, adequate accuracy, but he's far from being polished. We still need him for developemental reasons. His trade stock took a beating these last 2 games of the season for obvious reasons. Free Agency starts March 11th 4pm eastern time...

i look forward to more discussions on the glorious skins in coming years and hopefully one day sharing some cigars to celebrate their next superbowl win!

on kirk, one assumes he'll leave after four years no matter what. are we not better off getting something for him now?

and re free agency, is any contact banned till then or are things put in place well in advance?

[westg]

On the Offense: Tyler Polombus OT, Santana Moss WR, Josh Morgan WR, Aldrick Robinson WR(pending on the free agency/draft) Kory Lichtensteiger OG, Fred Davis TE(to free agency), Evan Royster RB, Jawan Jamison RB, Josh LeRibeus OG, Marice Hurt OG, Will Mongomery OC, Nick Williams WR, Josh Bellamy WR, Dezmone Briscoe WR, Maurice Hurt OT, Rex Grossman QB

One the Defense: Josh Wilson CB, Adam Carricker DE, London Fletcher LB, Chris Neild NT, Jordan Pugh, Daryl Tapp LB, Doug Worthington DE, Brian Orakpo (free agency, even though i know we're gonna keep him knowing he doesn't deserve the payday) Brandon Merriwether S, Chase Minnefield CB, Nick Barnett LB, Chris Baker NT, Jose Gumbs CB

Kickers: Sav Rocca

Great topic and discussion ..is this the same Sav Rocca that played for Collingwood. Here in Aus ?

[Wil]

Great topic and discussion ..is this the same Sav Rocca that played for Collingwood. Here in Aus ?

Yep, same one.

[westg]

Yep, same one.

Ha thanks.. I hope he has some sort of cult following ....big Sav sure could kick the skin off a footy, good luck to him, I hope he is loving it.

[Wil]

Ha thanks.. I hope he has some sort of cult following ....big Sav sure could kick the skin off a footy, good luck to him, I hope he is loving it.

Heard him speaking on the radio in Grand Final week. Sounds like a tough gig (lots of uncertainty) but he's doing well.

[anacostiakat]

Nice to see another person from the District and Redskins fan. Do you stop by Drapers in the city?

I like Gruden for the pick. Very interested in the actual makeup of the coaching staff under him though. I assume Haslett will provide some experience, etc.

I have said this before but will repeat that I believe there is a solid nucleus on offense that they can build on. Easy to agree with those you have named.

However the defense needs more work and I am hoping that that will be addressed (or at least start to be addressed) this coming year. Agree with those you have listed I just think there are more "holes" and it may be more difficult to fill them.

The special teams? Oooo-fah. And yea the punter needs to go.

Welcome Aboard!

Aaarrrggghhh......