PigFish Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 "If I were rich, I'd have an entire bin FULL of Behike 54s, instead of my 1-box. If those cost 1/2 of what they do, I'd have probably 10 boxes resting." That kind of hits the nail on the head - taking price out of the equation (as we were asked to do), you think the 54s good enough to acquire more. So in essence, you believe them to be good cigars. Affordability, value, etc - at least for the purpose of this exercise - are a separate topic. Along these lines... If they were $4.00 per stick I would still not buy them. Because I have $4.00 per stick cigars that are better! Taste is absolute when viewed only as a function of a cigar. My taste in cigars, as in my world view of cigars relates to my entire body of knowledge in cigars and that includes what I pay for them. A good cigar is always a good cigar regardless the cost. Bad cigar, will always be bad regardless of cost. An opinion about my taste in cigars, what I was asked about requires an opinion regarding what I taste in these cigars. Rating these cigars, or what I think about them in the context of how I perceived the question, was within the framework of my world view of cigars. What is the value of rating a cigar from one who has only smoked 1 cigar? Not much I say. The limited sample does not allow one to correlate data if no data exists. While he may like the cigar, not knowing a world of cigars to compare it to, he might eventually find that the first cigar was in reality not very good when compared to others. But what can one correlate by smoking 1 cigar when that person has a lifetime of cigar smoking behind him? It allows him to correlate the value of that cigar against his world knowledge of cigars. Of course the more he smokes any one cigar, the more he knows about it. But like the guy who throws his fishing line into a dry river bed, how long it takes him to determine that this is a bad place to fish will likely be a reflection on his patience, his intelligence and his tenacity. A fair sample size then is the best way to judge a cigar, like anything else, including the seasonal fishing hole! When I opine something it is now based on life experiences for and against a certain product. I am honest enough to say if I liked the product or not. And while I do like some Cohibas the brand itself is not a favorite. My small sample of this small subgroup of Cohibas reflects my feeling of a larger group of Cuban cigars. They will all vary. The price I pay does not reflect a likelihood of getting a better cigar. It is the contrary actually... At least for me. I pursued my view of value with Rob for a few reasons. While it is fair to ask me if I like a particular cigar, that was not really the question. Trying to get a gauge on the forums thoughts as to the recent release Cohiba's, specifically: Cohiba Behike Line (52/54/56) Cohiba 1966 Limited Edicion Cohiba Piramide Extra (for those that have tried them) Forgetting pricing issues (it is a relative thing person to person), what are your thoughts? Winners, Losers, quality, consistency, favourites? This was the question! My answer was in part the question of taste and in another part a criticism of Rob for asking the question the way he did. As I see it, when the entire marketing model of these cigars suggest that the more you pay, the better you get... I have to ask, why would someone then completely disregard the marketing strategy of the cigars themselves when asking a question about them? Does anyone really want to argue that the model for these cigars mentioned is in a nutshell, "the more you pay, the better your get?" I am not a guy that has only smoked 1 cigar! The value of my answer is therefore related to my experience. It is my world view. My world view is that the BigHillbilly (the only one out of the three that I have tried) is not a very good cigar. I have not smoked many, to be fair. On top of that, its entire marketing campaign is a fraud. My thoughts were asked in the original question! It is a poor value! That is what I think of the BigHillbilly! To beat this rap, the cigar must be a good cigar. Then the cigar must be better than a $4.00 cigar to be a good value. Then it has to be 10x better than the $4.00 cigar to be honestly marketed!!! That is the logic my friends, plain and simple. I smoke for the pleasure, not for the sake of the "bad" experience. Paying $40 bucks for a mediocre cigar is not a notch in my belt. IT IS A STUPID AMATEURISH MISTAKE! That is my take on it. Take it for what it is worth! If you as a reader cannot follow my logic, I can say nothing more than I am sorry! If you like them and think they are worth the money you can have my share. Cheers.
canadianbeaver Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Lisa loves Cohiba Siglo 3's and Behike 52's. Matthew likes Behike 54's and probably any other Cohiba product you put in front of him. No rocket science here.
IcedCanuck Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Lisa loves Cohiba Siglo 3's and Behike 52's. Matthew likes Behike 54's and probably any other Cohiba product you put in front of him. No rocket science here. Phil has enjoyed all Cohibas he has smoked with the exception of the Maduro 5 Genios
Zigatoh Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Thread gone wild! Doesn't seem to hard a question to me, have you tried them, did you like them? I have tried the 1966 a few times and loved it, and the behike 52 only once and thought it started slow, became interesting, and left me thinking a box to lay down might be an idea at some point. Cheers pres PS Can't help myself though, a note on this from PigFish - "Then it has to be 10x better than the $4.00 cigar to be honestly marketed!!!" - With any product the law of diminishing returns kicks in and kicks in Hard, no $40 product in any area I can think of is ten times as good as a $4 product, wine, whisky, steak, etc etc...
ramon_cojones Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Not sure if I can trust piggy since he doesn't like rass, his credibility goes down the toilet LOL!!! What happened to my avatar pic hmmm...
Diamondog Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Phil has enjoyed all Cohibas he has smoked with the exception of the Maduro 5 Genios You won't like them then, rest won't help....sell them to me!
khomeinist Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 'what we were asked to do' The kool-aid overfloweth.... Value is always a consideration when discussing consumer products. Otherwise we are dealing in abstract speculation. I think QDO coronas are superior to BHK regardless of price. I dislike the 10-count 'luxury' segment, but my assessment is based on empirical sampling.
PigFish Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 'what we were asked to do' The kool-aid overfloweth.... Value is always a consideration when discussing consumer products. Otherwise we are dealing in abstract speculation. I think QDO coronas are superior to BHK regardless of price. I dislike the 10-count 'luxury' segment, but my assessment is based on empirical sampling. Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa! Ko-Hee-Baaa!... Ko-Hee-Baaa!... Ko-Hee-Baaa!... Yes... Ko-Hee-Baaa! Now, chop off their heads!!! -LOL -
PigFish Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Not sure if I can trust piggy since he doesn't like rass, his credibility goes down the toilet LOL!!! What happened to my avatar pic hmmm... ... but after a little processing much of it can be found in your drinking water!
Fuzz Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I'm sorry, but I can't understand why this is such a hard question for people. Q1. Have you smoked said cigars? Yes, go to Q2. No. stop right here. Q2. Did you like them? Yes or No. Q3. Provide feedback on quality, consistency, flavour, etc. Note: Reserve judgement based on price or comparison to other cigars not in question. Simple.
Rushman Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Pig.....you had me at BigHillbilly! Funny stuff. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631627,-87.070683
El Presidente Posted October 16, 2012 Author Posted October 16, 2012 The utility/enjoyment a cigar provides is how I judge it initially. Piggy is right in that one cigar is not enough to determine its utility. To have a genuine worthwhile opinion you need to try several and preferably from different periods. Now if I really love a cigar...price is a factor I take into account in determining its value to me personally. Price for me is a secondary consideration, not a primary one. As an example, I enjoy the book releases. I think that most are remarkable cigars. I don't enjoy them enough to have one in my collection. I love the Cohiba Siglo VI original 2003 release. If I could find them I would gladly pay $60 a piece (duty paid in Oz). The value equation to an individual...... is unique to that individual. There is no global "across the board" formulae to adhere to.
PigFish Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Pig.....you had me at BigHillbilly! Funny stuff. --- I am here: http://maps.google.c...1627,-87.070683 I have a way with words, don't I? -LOL On a different note I was wondering. Are the threads worse (and this should be a poll) if Kommie and I agree or disagree? Any answer is acceptable in 1000 words or more. "Piggy, you shouldn't post," is only 4 words and is therefore not acceptable! -The Pig
Fuzz Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 "Piggy, you shouldn't post," is only 4 words and is therefore not acceptable! What if I type, "Piggy, you shouldn't post" 250 times? Does that count?
khomeinist Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Damn. I gave most of my 2003 Sig VI away. Not my cuppa. I obviously get it that 'it's all relative.' It is just hard watching the industry move from 'everyday smokes' to 'the occasional luxury.'
khomeinist Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I'm sorry, but I can't understand why this is such a hard question for people. Q1. Have you smoked said cigars? Yes, go to Q2. No. stop right here. Q2. Did you like them? Yes or No. Q3. Provide feedback on quality, consistency, flavour, etc. Note: Reserve judgement based on price or comparison to other cigars not in question. Simple. Well.... Not all of us enjoy (or are able) to think like a kindergarten programming algorithm.
PigFish Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The utility/enjoyment a cigar provides is how I judge it initially. Piggy is right in that one cigar is not enough to determine its utility. To have a genuine worthwhile opinion you need to try several and preferably from different periods. Now if I really love a cigar...price is a factor I take into account in determining its value to me personally. Price for me is a secondary consideration, not a primary one. As an example, I enjoy the book releases. I think that most are remarkable cigars. I don't enjoy them enough to have one in my collection. I love the Cohiba Siglo VI original 2003 release. If I could find them I would gladly pay $60 a piece (duty paid in Oz). The value equation to an individual...... is unique to that individual. There is no global "across the board" formulae to adhere to. So should the exceptionally priced cigar not be exceptional? While I am being criticized for being thorough in my discussion, to be brief, is expectation not a factor in these cigars? Are we to expect nothing more than a catalogue cigar at 4x's the price? If I can expect nothing more for my money, what am I getting exactly, other than wishful musings of the unsmoked cigar? I proffer that when the cigar is expensive the factor of expectation must be considered more than in other cigars. Expectation is all that you have that represents its value before you smoke it. Without it, there is nothing that we can use to support the value of the exceptional price offering. Are we to simply take it on face value, to trust those who say that the cigar is worth its face value with little or no reputation to support it? When you buy these cigars, you invest heavily in expectation. Expectation then is what is being offered with these cigars. Any question regarding them certainly should take into account what one expects from them. Someone suggested that with these cigars you are only granted a license to experience a "difference," not necessarily an inprovement in experience. I reject this. If my position is not improved, commensurate with the asking price, then there is no need to purchase them. Food for thought! Cheers mate! -R
PigFish Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 What if I type, "Piggy, you shouldn't post" 250 times? Does that count? YOU... must stay after class!!! -LOL
PigFish Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Well.... Not all of us enjoy (or are able) to think like a kindergarten programming algorithm. ...dude! That was worth the iced coffee though the nostrils!!!
Fuzz Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Well.... Not all of us enjoy (or are able) to think like a kindergarten programming algorithm. Well, it helps when you have the maturity of a 5yr old!
OZCUBAN Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Hi all I cannot really comment on this as I have only had one of the Cigars in question,think it was the Behike 52 or 54 ,I cannot recall which it was ,but it is somewhat irrelevant as it is the only one I have had and it was plugged . And to me that's another subject matter again deserving of its own thread Cheers OZ
sharks Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Overall quality etc has been spot on from the cigars I have had of late. At the end of the day each to their own, different tastebuds etc whatever rocks your world. As per the question I do enjoy my Cohiba's. A very big fan of the Behike 52, and 54. The 56 just doesn't rock my boat. The few 1966 I have smoked have been quite enjoyable and I believe it may be a real winner with a few years. The Cohiba P Extra was ok but also very young. Given the dollars my humidor would be stacked with 52's and 1966's. Oh plenty of room for the Siglo VI aswell
mk05 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Rob I will have a 10ct or two for you when you come to visit next month. Everyone has their perspective on it. That's what makes conversation worthwhile. No one is wrong for liking what they like. Some like to appreciate the value aspect. Some like to just smoke a cigar for what it is, regardless of the value prop. It is what it is. Smoke what you like.
El Presidente Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 So should the exceptionally priced cigar not be exceptional? While I am being criticized for being thorough in my discussion, to be brief, is expectation not a factor in these cigars? Are we to expect nothing more than a catalogue cigar at 4x's the price? If I can expect nothing more for my money, what am I getting exactly, other than wishful musings of the unsmoked cigar? No criticism mate I love Shiraz. When a hyper priced bottle of limited availability comes on the market I generally try it. It may or may not be to my taste. I make my decision to purchase then. I can't recall how many times Ken will adore it and I think it is "ho hum". Different strokes...different folks. Flip side as well...in blind tastings of wine I will often prefer the cheaper offering. I proffer that when the cigar is expensive the factor of expectation must be considered more than in other cigars. Expectation is all that you have that represents its value before you smoke it. Without it, there is nothing that we can use to support the value of the exceptional price offering. Are we to simply take it on face value, to trust those who say that the cigar is worth its face value with little or no reputation to support it? When you buy these cigars, you invest heavily in expectation. True to a point. But how does an "anti marketing/direction" bias affect a persons opinion? Does that not need to be taken into consideration when one reads commentary on a cigar? I take nothing on face value. If I did then I would have a collection of everything HSA told me was great. I like what I like and am not personally swayed by tales of Medio Tiempo or 5 year aged tobacco or shiny boxes. I like the BHK 52 and 54 allot. The 56 is not my cup of tea and yet to many here it is the best of the line. Good on them. Their tastes are different. Expectation then is what is being offered with these cigars. Any question regarding them certainly should take into account what one expects from them. I expect a great cigar. I don't expect automatically that it will be my cup of tea. I don't expect flaws in construction nor blending. I expect a very good wrapper. If I don't like it but Frank or Ohio or yourself or Maverick, Tom etal sings its praises then I put it down to "different strokes for different folks". Someone suggested that with these cigars you are only granted a license to experience a "difference," not necessarily an inprovement in experience. I reject this. If my position is not improved, commensurate with the asking price, then there is no need to purchase them. I look for uniqueness in flavour...a different twist. For the sake of the argument, if it is a 95 point cigar then one can rightly point out that there are many regular production cigars that can also be 95 point cigars for a fraction of the price. That is not important to me. What I am looking for is a different flavour experience,smoking utility. Aroma, mouthfeel, richness. It is only upon experiencing the cigar that I make the decision if the price component makes it worthwhile...for me. Food for thought! Cheers mate! -R Fun as always Pigster!
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