Need insights on all the different cuban blends

[MPS]

few years ago Rob Ayala conducted experiments on Cohiba Maduro and Cohiba robustos (swapping wrappers) which showed a huge influence of the wrapper on the flavours…

I'm sure it made a huge difference and transformed the cigar but changing the seco or ligero would have a much much greater impact.

[khomeinist]

Not disagreeing that the ligero and seco leaves are very important. I am fairly certain, however, that the 5% estimation assigned to wrapper influence was an incorrect and highly arbitrary calculation.

I have smoked far to many Bolivar pcs to not notice a substantial (>20%) influence along the claro-maduro spectrum. (just to give a single vitola example)

[CaptainQuintero]

Not to mention when smoking the initial centimetre or so of a perfecto style cigar, that pointed end of the cigar is formed from wrapper leaf and has a very distinct flavour compared to the rest of the cigar. If wrapper leaf was essentially flavourless you would taste essentially nothing.

[Michel1968]

I'd say the given 5% influence from the wrapper is a attempt to cover up the lack of consistency (quality,taste etc.) with wrappers in general. Nothing negative, just a consequence of a 'natural product' Like Khomeinist I'm much more in the 20% camp.

[geneticdrifter]

On wrapper influence on flavor: Look at 4:48.

[BonVivant]

An excellent revelation from an insider

Thank you for the video!

[khomeinist]

Yes. That was an interesting video.

[geneticdrifter]

You would think he knows his stuff but he is only one man. He can fall victim to placebo and confirmation bias like any human. But he is the biggest "insider" we all have access to.

[laranced]

Do the oils on the wrapper come from the wrapper leaf or from within the cigar?

[BonVivant]

You would think he knows his stuff but he is only one man. He can fall victim to placebo and confirmation bias like any human. But he is the biggest "insider" we all have access to.

Absolutely not

[khomeinist]

Haha. Leo and his experts....

(safe to make that joke a year later?)

[BonVivant]

Are you from Massachusetts, like MK05? No? Illinois? No?

Can we get back to the topic, please?

Fascinating thread!

[geneticdrifter]

Can someone point me to these other "insiders?" A place where I can can have the same access to them as everyone else?

[mk05]

Are you from Massachusetts, like MK05...

what did i do?

Can someone point me to these other "insiders?" A place where I can can have the same access to them as everyone else?

[randomhero1090]

Great video. So according to Hamlet, wrapper "might" influence the flavor by 8-9%, sometimes more depending on the type and age of the wrapper.

But bottom line the wrapper does have influence, and unless you smoke the parts individually on every single cigar you smoke, you really have no idea.

And every single cigar is going to be different. There are no two cigars identical.

[khomeinist]

Are you from Massachusetts, like MK05? No? Illinois? No?

Can we get back to the topic, please?

Fascinating thread!

Aye Aye Cap'n.

The relevance of my geographic location is...?

I was merely pointing out that unnamed experts don't really aid fruitful discussion in a public forum. It just smacks of arrogance. Thanks....

But yes. An interesting discussion. Anyone else have thoughts on terroir in relation to blend characteristics for each marca?

[MPS]

1336588646[/url]' post='306820']

Aye Aye Cap'n.

The relevance of my geographic location is...?

I was merely pointing out that unnamed experts don't really aid fruitful discussion in a public forum. It just smacks of arrogance. Thanks....

But yes. An interesting discussion. Anyone else have thoughts on terroir in relation to blend characteristics for each marca?

Can you please clarify this statement?

[Dbone]

I really don't know much compared to you all, BUT, I remember reading somewhere that Sancho plantation is closest to the sea hence the saltiness in their profile. This is regurgitated information, I really haven't smoked enough Sancho to agree or not.

[CaptainQuintero]

A top insider told me that all of the tobacco that used to go into Davidoff Gran Cru now goes soley into the Montecristo Open Master.

[Smallclub]

I remember reading somewhere that Sancho plantation is closest to the sea hence the saltiness in their profile.

This is the typical cigar forum myth IMHO. And there is no "Sancho plantation"…

[Dbone]

This is the typical cigar forum myth IMHO. And there is no "Sancho plantation"…

I guess that brings up a good point, does any brand have a specific plantation? Because I've read SLR also all come from the same fields. Not the same as Sancho, just they have their own field which produces their unique flavor.

[Colt45]

Do the oils on the wrapper come from the wrapper leaf or from within the cigar?

My thought is that they come from the wrapper. In the previously mentioned wrapper removal experiment, the cigar in question had little

oil to speak of prior to lighting. By the time I removed the wrapper, it had a nice, even sheen of oil, while the binder was oil free.

[AverageJoe83]

Can you please clarify this statement?

I should hope that it would be pretty black and white, and not need the visual aid of crayons to spell it out for you. And really why would you be surprised the way you've conducted your arguement in this thread. I for one haven't a clue as to how much percent of flavor comes from a wrapper on a cigar and am very interested in learning from facts as to the proper percentile. But you've aggressively become arguementative with anyone who has disputed you even when they have quote sources.

Then you go on the offensive because you know the correct answer because of some "Insider" you have personel communiques with? You quote no sources, refer no names, then expect everyone to take you on your word because? Because of your calm, cool, collected, and mature way in which you provided your side of the arguement?

I would completely agree that it smacks of arrogance, if not a few other choice words.

OT: I think that info from the video was very interesting and provides somewhat of an informed source on the topic at hand.

Edit: had to remove another quote because it came across wrong.

[Colt45]

Let's all keep it from getting any more personal than it already has.

[semery74]

I'm not a believer in terroir. I think there is a major difference in quality based upon the level of organic materials in growing and fermentation. A few points are: the difference between store bought and backyard grown tomatoes; and the ability of a California wine to beat a Bordeaux.

I thought the cubans ended Vega specific cigars and blends in the early 90s. A hard lesson when they were forced to switch to disease resistant strains. Flavor that used to be introduced during primary fermentation, is now more defined in secondary fermentation away from the Vegas. Being coordinated and controlled by the Central Horticulture Ministry. Guy posted an article about it a few years ago. They hand out the corillo and corojo clones regulating farmers on what and how much to grow in order to protect soil integrity.

I believe a wrapper adds flavor to a cigar mechanically more than it does physically. Ever have a cigar with cracks or holes in the wrapper? You lose the suction through that straw.

You can make a cigar taste salty. Just rinse it with a salt water solution.

Why is Hamlet's video over shadow by music when I play it?

There is no arrogance in stating your opinion, but be prepared to hear otherwise, or you will only perpetuate ignorance.