What's in a Name

[Colt45]

We've had any number of discussions regarding habanos - the cigars and the company. I believe that in the not too distant future, competition

will open up for the production of Cuban cigars, that there will no longer be a monopoly.

So I was wondering how members might feel about smoking a "non-traditional" Cuban cigar. Are the marques important to you. Traditions behind

some of the brands. The company. Or is a well constructed, great tasting cigar from a new producer enough.

My thoughts are not about feeling abandoned by HSA, peeved about deletions, etc. But will it matter to you if it's not Montecristo, Partagas,

Bolivar, etc?.....

[Ginseng]

Of course I would be open to accepting a new line. As long as there is a reasoned, meaningful rationale behind its creation. I'm just not sure something like the Monte Open fits my conception of such an execution.

Wilkey

[canadianbeaver]

My thoughts are not about feeling abandoned by HSA, peeved about deletions, etc. But will it matter to you if it's not Montecristo, Partagas,

Bolivar, etc?.....

I think the idea of a "custom", like the Hamlet... pig tail, shaggy foot would be great. And the cigar would be able to be branded as the best of the best, blended by experts, like the Coh line, without the expense of banding and "instant heritage" issues.

Lisa

[Colt45]

Of course I would be open to accepting a new line.

W, my thought is completely new companies who will be able to produce cigars. Something like Tabacalera Ayala, etc.

[Wicky]

No big brand name would not be an issue for me. Bands or boxes either, for that matter. Just give me a good cigar in a decent shape and I'm good.

[investandprosper]

I'm an old soul, and like my Bolis, Upmanns, RAs, and Partagas. I'd probably stick with what I like.

[gersonmorelli]

Great topic... I am actually somewhat skeptical about this. It would definitely be great to have competitors coming in and raising the bar in terms of quality, pricing, etc. However, I wouldn't want this to become a market where advertisement/share/hype rules over quality/tradition.

[CanuckSARTech]

I like my branding stuff. It's the different flavour profiles that I find enjoyable in this case. I'd definitely be open to something new, but stepping completely away from the established brands / blends is just not something that I'd be liking....

[laficion]

I for one won't mind if HSA is still around when the competition starts,

if and when it starts, they do have a "savoir faire" that will be needed

when it will all begin. There hasen't been any other competition or outside initative

for more then 50 years outside of HSA.

I'm all for the Idea of new private brands of cigars, new blends and why not,

new shapes and brands.Yes,"non-traditional" Cuban cigar with a new history to start.

I'm for keeping some of the old big brands with a history & tradition behind them.

If smaller brands are taken away or not able to renew themselves, it won't really

have that much of an effect on me. NOW !!!!!!I don't care if it's called Monte-cristo or

something new as long as the cigar is GREAT, less would not be acceptable.

What would really bother me is that a certain Cuban tobacco history repeats itself

like in the 1930's to 1950's.

What would really bother me is that Cuban tobacco would be used on other cigars

other then Cuban and from Cuba.I would not want the comeback of "Clear Havanas"

or any other mixing.

What would really bother me is that another big money monopoly outside of Cuba takes over.

So,

With new & private brands and new great cigars ? Yes !!!

With Traditions & History not forgotten ? Yes !!!!

In short, that's my 2 Euro cents worth .

[canadianbeaver]

THIS>>>

What would really bother me is that another big money monopoly outside of Cuba takes over.

I don't want to see Macanudo CUBANS

[Wil]

I think the end of the embargo is a long way off. In any case, I think Cuba would protect its cigar industry.

But to answer the question, the names of the cigars wouldn't really be a factor for me.

[Dbone]

Like Wil, brands not a big deal to me. Yes I like my bolivar, Partagas, etc... But they may as well be named Larry, and Moe. The reason 3/4 of my stock on hand are mixed up brands and vitolas is I'm still on the search for what I can settle into. So far really only 2 consistent, Bolivar PC and Monte Esp.

I'd welcome new cigars (blends) with Cuban tobacco, no promises they'd be on my short list but why not. That being said, I always love the idea of the Habanos cigars as Cuban puros, in my mind that carries a lot of weight.

[canadianbeaver]

Do you guys understand what I mean when I say "instant heritage"? I have been in the package design and marketing business for over 25 years. When we launch either a new SKU (store keeping Unit) for a product line (e.g. Diet Coke with LIME) or completely new product (e.g. iPad), there is a marketing initiative program that goes with it.

If a product has to fall in line with an established category or segment, like cigars, you cannot look like you have just landed out of nowhere. You have to look like you have been around and have a believable, credible and established brand. If there are a group of experts (like FOH) ready to test this credibility it can be very difficult. This is why "Instant heritage" is so tricky.

So American companies have their work cut out for them. They may or may not get access to Cuban product, what they do with it is another matter.

Lisa

[Ginseng]

W, my thought is completely new companies who will be able to produce cigars. Something like Tabacalera Ayala, etc.

Ah,

Yes again. If they are rational and passionate and can articulate the meaningfulness behind their work, of course.

Wilkey

[nonameno]

Hello Fellow FOH'ers,

I think competition would only be good for the Cuban cigar industry. Also, there are a lot of extinct Cuban cigar brands/labels which could be resurrected to generate an instant heritage as well, from which they could build upon, if so desired. I think we as Cuban cigar smokers would be the beneficiary of any competition. I think it would only lead to exciting times ahead.

Thank you,

Curtiss

[randomhero1090]

Ok, help me out here...

Altadis/Imperial bought 50% of Habanos SA. Altadis/Imperial owns the trademarks of some of the bigger names...Monte, H Up, RyJ. So I assume if an embargo was lifted those brands could be sold in the US? If I am not mistaken, Imperial owns Davidoff...Cuban Davidoffs make a return???

The US trademark for Cohiba is owned by General Cigar. So that could be a interesting situation.

Cuban tobacco is Cuban Tobacco. Name doesn't mean a whole lot to me. More curious as to what would happen to the quality of the cigars.

[Ginseng]

I think competition would only be good for the Cuban cigar industry.

Only if the industry were situated in a free-market economy. I don't think competition would bring the effects we might expect given communist state dynamics.

Wilkey

[charlesod]

Flavor is everything. Most cigars are guilty until proven inocent IMO. I favor the stronger, richer smokes and, therefore, I smoke CC's almost exclusively. I have my favorites. I'm always willing to try something new and would be open to off-lable brands.

[Colt45]

I'm surely not advocating the demise of HSA, but I'd definitely like to see open competition. And in my mind that would be Cubans already

involved in the industry in some way. I'm not so sure the end of the embargo would allow this to happen. I imagine it would take a change

in the current Cuban government, or at least an expansion of some of the recent regulation easing.

I recently read an article with one of the top brass of Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy who tried to get the company to expand into Cuban cigars.

Though his boss declined, he's still interested in doing it on his own. He feels there'd be no problem with $60 cigars......

[CanuckSARTech]

I'm surely not advocating the demise of HSA....

LOL.

Why not????

[geneticdrifter]

I think blending could be done well but I hope we don't ever have to read fine print to find a Cigar that is 100% Cuban tobacco.

[Eltoasto]

I may be in the minority here but I think the nostalgia that comes with a certain brand can create an experience that often times beat out a slight improvement in flavor/construction from a new one. Weber, push mowers, Frank Sinatra, H Upmann and Cohiba all hold special places in my heart as they remind me of good times with family and friends. It would be nice if HSA gave priority to their core line and only experimented with new lines as their current resources allow.

[mazolaman]

Ironically, HSA has created an almost perfect example of a capitalist product. High demand, great product, great and identifiable packaging, excellent reputation and desirability, high price, excellent tradition, highly skilled fabrication.

I would be sad to see that change, mainly due to the quality and tradition aspects.

Many times under new management, a product looses the thing you loved about it.

I wouldn't mind if a new company appeared, but as long as as the quality of the standard HSA cigar remained exactly the same.

I don't think this would be the case, as there are only so many leaves and so many rollers...

We know damn fine if another company started, they'd be making 50 gauge fatties...with luminous bands...called "The Assassin"

[mk05]

It's late and I probably should answer this rather formally tomorrow, but this is a topic I have strong opinions on, so I apologize firsthand for the upcoming regurgitation of thoughts.

J - you and certainly several others around the world share the sentiment that the heritage and pedigree will be lost after the lift of the embargo. I both agree and disagree. There are reservations in my agreement - which will follow - but firstly, I agree that you should stock up on as much CCs as you can. However, I welcome the introduction to the new blends which would present themselves - which you haven't addressed, so I cannot make assumptions about.

I've had the chance to try some interesting blends by some who have stored vintage Cuban tobacco by the warehouses and have mixed it and/or made CC version of their NC sticks; they were incredible, given their Cuban heritage and knowledge, infusion with NC tobacco created a marvelous, rich, thick, velvety, yet layered, and complex smokes (I was also told stories of Avelino Lara making cigars from tobacco all across the world, including Cuban tobacco, and it was supposedly outrageous, but I digress). There are certain manufacturers who probably/are waiting for the day; a certain old man's interview regarding his perfect cigar comes to mind. What's the point of my exposé? That when done right, NC + CC blends can be beautiful and maybe the holy grail of cigars - perhaps what some of us have all been waiting for.

However, the caveat would be HSA's proclivity towards quality control vs yield. How does Altadis' management and operations teams decide whether to export the tobacco or keep for its own use? Certainly HSA/Altadis is preparing for the end of the embargo - I infer from reports of HSAs new cultivation sites, production exceeding demand, concentrations in certain marcas to reinforce them (whether it is a priority based on revenue or pedigree, one could infer either) for possible quality control issues, and others.* After all, it is a capitalist enterprise as others have noted, and this corporation will do what it will to maximize profit (well wc, but whatever). The decision to export the tobacco or regulate it strictly will be a very calculated move, with which I do not have enough information to draw any hypothesis on**

Who knows, maybe some enterprising consortium will buy expired brands of HSA and bring about a marvelous comeback. It's possible, albeit perhaps improbable. So in closing, if HSA handles the cultivation and distribution of their prized tobacco, I am all for post-embargo world tobacco blends.

---

*Of course, the game of corporate management vs world conditions and competition is a pure chess game, and I am too far out of the loop to glean anything. This is pure speculation and my opinion

**I guess you could do a basic market sizing and sensitivity analysis on competition and draw scenarios with upcoming health regulations in regions/sectors effecting revenues globally, but we don't get numbers like that to begin with, so impossible to draw a map

[khomeinist]

I truly doubt a true free-market is anywhere near reality. Why would HSA give up its corrupt monopoly? That company needs to go under or liquidate its holdings. Then we can talk.

I think HSA should explore limited arrangements with entrepreneurs that want to try new brands or re-boot the flagging ones. They could sell the tobacco and let the partner handle blending, rolling, distribution, etc. I guess that this is starting to happen with retailer customs. Would be nice if full-fledged marcas were the next step.

Somebody please take over La Gloria Cubana (just one example)....... Rename it to get around General/Swedish Match, whatever. But this blend is being disrespected horribly right now...

Would love a split of Partagas as well. Serie nonsense on one side. 898V, shorts, SDC, lonnies, coronas, etc on the other side...

ok. i am digressing....