robert griffin III

[ElPuro]

I am just truly happy for Kirk Cousins. Hopefully he is the next Brady. Guy has a lot of brains and class, which bodes well in the NFL.

[wabashcr]

Before he signed in Cleveland, I thought RG3 still had a chance to salvage his career. He's still a remarkable athlete, and despite all the drama, he's an intelligent guy. When he came back from the injury at the end of his rookie year, his people informed the Shanahans that he would no longer run the read option. That was the beginning of the end for him, because his value as a starter at that point in his career was still largely based on making plays with his legs. The team needed his transition to a pocket passer to be more gradual. Considering what they gave up to get him, they needed him to be the electric play maker from his first season.

I think, as is the case with many athletes, he's surrounded himself with some people who are giving him bad advice. He doesn't have the leverage to tell a team he won't run the read option anymore. He has to do whatever the coaches tell him to do. In the right system with the right coach, he could be productive. There is positively zero reason to expect that will be the case in Cleveland, though. Cleveland is where QBs go to die. The dysfunction in that organization isn't conducive to a fragile guy resurrecting his career. They've made some more changes again this year, so maybe this is the combination that finally works out for them. Not holding my breath though.

[Ken Gargett]

When he came back from the injury at the end of his rookie year, his people informed the Shanahans that he would no longer run the read option.

as i said, i really doubt any of us now the truth at the moment.

i've heard plenty of people insist it was the other way. the shannys said no more. i have no idea what is the truth. there are plenty of reports that he was a very decent guy - he behaved impeccably this last year, but again, who knows.

do you have anything concrete that "his people informed etc etc"? i'm genuinely curious because i've heard others insist the opposition. i simply do not know.

[capitalpg]

as a diehard browns fan who lives in DC, i cant f*&king escape this guy

Now this is funny!

[capitalpg]

RG3 did take responsibility for his descent in Washington, which does show some maturity that was greatly missing prior. If his head truly is on straight, I can't see how he could hurt the Brown as there's no where to go but up...

[wabashcr]

as i said, i really doubt any of us now the truth at the moment.

i've heard plenty of people insist it was the other way. the shannys said no more. i have no idea what is the truth. there are plenty of reports that he was a very decent guy - he behaved impeccably this last year, but again, who knows.

do you have anything concrete that "his people informed etc etc"? i'm genuinely curious because i've heard others insist the opposition. i simply do not know.

In addition to being reported by numerous media outlets with ties to the organization, Mike Shanahan himself detailed a meeting where RG3 told him as much. Here's a link, it's about 2/3 down: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/dan-snyders-fingerprints-are-all-over-decision-to-anoint-rgiii-the-starter/2015/02/20/71449e6e-b911-11e4-a200-c008a01a6692_story.html

There is no reason I'm aware of to suspect Shanahan would have made this up.

[Blazer]

RG3 did take responsibility for his descent in Washington, which does show some maturity that was greatly missing prior. If his head truly is on straight, I can't see how he could hurt the Brown as there's no where to go but up...

I think the downside is that if Hugh Jackson builds an offense around RGIII's skill sets and he goes down, as he has done a few times before, you have a pocket passer as the back-up in an offense he can't run. If this happens you are hitting the reset button, yet again, in Cleveland. I get that Hugh likes him and wanted to draft him before, but if he has been given time by Haslem to truly rebuild why not do it the right way and use your draft QB or at least start McKown who relishes the role of mentor?

[capitalpg]

Glad this thread popped up as I'm a huge Tom Terrific fan and so happy when someone who isn't gifted works their balls off to make magic happen, while the gifted kids are just a flash in the pan. Johnny Football makes me sick.

Brady:

6th Round. #199

Stepped off bench in year two for the chance of a lifetime. Won Superbowl... then a few more. Married worlds biggest supermodel, making quite a bit more than him (about $15 MIL, give or take). One another at 37. Lost 2. That's 6 appearances total. No flash, just work. The only flash Brady had was Moss and while 18-0 that season, SB loss and Moss didn't perform. Hate Belichick if you wish, but if you hate Brady it's pure jealousy.

Been a PATS season ticket holder since '84, got tickets as a HS graduation present. I've seen the lean years as the tailgate was best part of Game Day.

The 18-1 season with that heartbreaking loss wasn't a Moss thing, imho. The OL couldn't hold the pass rush all game. McDaniels kept forcing the ball down the field with NO TIME for Brady to be Brady - he didn't adjust the game plan at all. Only time they moved the ball all game was with the no huddle and short routes.

Yes, I'm still angry;)

[capitalpg]

And the Brady pick deep in the draft was great. Hell, just looking at the combine results wouldn't warrant a pick. Scouting was great.

[alloy]

I heard Steve Young on ESPN980 say that Cleveland is the graveyard where QB's go to die. He's going to get injured again.

[Ken Gargett]

In addition to being reported by numerous media outlets with ties to the organization, Mike Shanahan himself detailed a meeting where RG3 told him as much. Here's a link, it's about 2/3 down: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/dan-snyders-fingerprints-are-all-over-decision-to-anoint-rgiii-the-starter/2015/02/20/71449e6e-b911-11e4-a200-c008a01a6692_story.html

There is no reason I'm aware of to suspect Shanahan would have made this up.

as i said, i have no idea of the truth - enough reports to suggest that there were certainly some problems - and i doubt many do. but no reason for shanahan to make it up? seriously? it was obvious that a great many people (though i never heard it from rg3 himself) believed that shanahan had made a massive error putting him back in the game where the injury was made so much worse. given he was trying to hang on to his $5mill a year job, i'd reckon that is a fair reason to start tossing blame around elsewhere.

the relationship between rg3 and shanahan had tanked. you think the coach is going to blame himself?

when you say ties to the organisation, do you mean synder or shanahan or rg3 or who? and having worked with large media groups, i have absolutely no faith in reports like this. especially sports writers. they need to come up with stuff every day. they need to create controversy. not saying it didn't happen (i suspect plenty of blame to go around) but if that is your only source then i am no closer to being convinced.

as a single example i have always loved, back when our lions AFL team was in the midst of a three premiership run, newspapers and tv all started splashing about stories about how one of our star defenders was out for the semi final. he'd been forced to leave training early. serious injury. club in crisis etc etc etc.

i rang one of my best mates who was on the board. first he'd heard about it. checked and rang me back. the so called serious injury was the bloke leaving training ten minutes early for a piss.

i've not had a lot of faith in sports journos ever since.

[wabashcr]

as i said, i have no idea of the truth - enough reports to suggest that there were certainly some problems - and i doubt many do. but no reason for shanahan to make it up? seriously? it was obvious that a great many people (though i never heard it from rg3 himself) believed that shanahan had made a massive error putting him back in the game where the injury was made so much worse. given he was trying to hang on to his $5mill a year job, i'd reckon that is a fair reason to start tossing blame around elsewhere.

the relationship between rg3 and shanahan had tanked. you think the coach is going to blame himself?

when you say ties to the organisation, do you mean synder or shanahan or rg3 or who? and having worked with large media groups, i have absolutely no faith in reports like this. especially sports writers. they need to come up with stuff every day. they need to create controversy. not saying it didn't happen (i suspect plenty of blame to go around) but if that is your only source then i am no closer to being convinced.

as a single example i have always loved, back when our lions AFL team was in the midst of a three premiership run, newspapers and tv all started splashing about stories about how one of our star defenders was out for the semi final. he'd been forced to leave training early. serious injury. club in crisis etc etc etc.

i rang one of my best mates who was on the board. first he'd heard about it. checked and rang me back. the so called serious injury was the bloke leaving training ten minutes early for a piss.

i've not had a lot of faith in sports journos ever since.

Why would Shanahan say Griffin refused to run the read option if it wasn't true? It was obvious that was their best chance to win. You think Shanahan publicly acknowledged this but privately didn't want to run those plays for some reason? I'm not sure I've heard any plausible explanation other than that Griffin refused. Of course Griffin had Snyder's blessing, but there's no reason to think Shanahan would be the reason they stopped running those plays.

I can't speak to how it works in Oz, but in the NFL every team has connected reporters who mine information from within. There is no shortage of media types who have plenty of sources in the Washington organization. I listen to Steve Czaban every morning. He was largely supportive of RG3 at that point, and incredibly critical of the Shanahans. He said numerous times that he heard from his sources that Griffin refused to run the read option, and that was that. Plenty of national reporters had the same story. This was shortly after RG3's rookie year when he still had a lot of support in the organization. Other than Griffin himself denying it, I don't recall anyone else reporting that it wasn't true.

I don't mean to be overly argumentative. I just think there's enough information to reasonably piece together what likely happened in this instance.

[Colt45]

The OL couldn't hold the pass rush all game.

The O line has been an issue for years (at least to me). They have trouble any time they play against a stout defensive line. In the '07 regular season, they almost lost to Baltimore, Philly, and the Giants. You don't have to "stop" his weapons if you can get to TB - it's been shown a number of times. I know they like to get "athletic" O linemen, but they need, and have needed, some immovable objects. Again, just my perspective.

[Ken Gargett]

The O line has been an issue for years (at least to me). They have trouble any time they play against a stout defensive line. In the '07 regular season, they almost lost to Baltimore, Philly, and the Giants. You don't have to "stop" his weapons if you can get to TB - it's been shown a number of times. I know they like to get "athletic" O linemen, but they need, and have needed, some immovable objects. Again, just my perspective.

no argument. the best thing that has happened to the skins in years in the new GM. he agrees with you. lot of work on the OL last year including using the number 5 pick on a guard. it was better last season, not perfect, but getting there.

[Ken Gargett]

Why would Shanahan say Griffin refused to run the read option if it wasn't true? It was obvious that was their best chance to win. You think Shanahan publicly acknowledged this but privately didn't want to run those plays for some reason? I'm not sure I've heard any plausible explanation other than that Griffin refused. Of course Griffin had Snyder's blessing, but there's no reason to think Shanahan would be the reason they stopped running those plays.

I can't speak to how it works in Oz, but in the NFL every team has connected reporters who mine information from within. There is no shortage of media types who have plenty of sources in the Washington organization. I listen to Steve Czaban every morning. He was largely supportive of RG3 at that point, and incredibly critical of the Shanahans. He said numerous times that he heard from his sources that Griffin refused to run the read option, and that was that. Plenty of national reporters had the same story. This was shortly after RG3's rookie year when he still had a lot of support in the organization. Other than Griffin himself denying it, I don't recall anyone else reporting that it wasn't true.

I don't mean to be overly argumentative. I just think there's enough information to reasonably piece together what likely happened in this instance.

first up, no problem at all with you being as argumentative as you like. rather that than someone avoiding what they think.

next, i still believe that very few people genuinely know the full story and i also believe that there is plenty of blame to go around all involved.

finally, i check most of the major skins sites, blogs, official websites, local media every day. so i am more than aware of the endless rumours and stories floating about. it is worth saying that it appears that the new GM has put a real stop to a lot of it. some of those 'usual' reporters are complaining that they can't get info.

also, if you look at the skins back then, the most likely sources, or the ones that are likely to have any info, are synder, allen and shanahan. synder, for all his faults, does not seem to leak stories and certainly would not be involved in dumping on his prized QB. allen also seems mnmore to do with the off field stuff than the actual footy and he is there because of his close links to synder. it makes little sense for him to be leaking this. that leaves shanahan and his camp. anyone else is likely to be speculating. so to me, the bloke most likely leaking is the one most likely to benefit. any jury would drop laughing if this was the evidence.

more specifically, i take the view that why wouldn't shanahan be saying things like that. absolutely in his interest for this story to get out, true or not.

i tried googling to see what i could come up with. the first reports on this discussed things much as you state but then it states very clearly - there is no suggestion that any of this (meaning refusal to run the read option) came from rg3 or his camp. again, who knows. but that was the first report i found so there is clearly room for speculation. and not all reporters are on board.

but sure, plenty of reporters have that story, though others had different ones. but these days, a great deal of sports scoops are simply rehashing what the bloke down the road wrote. so the stories get a life of their own with no foundation. those national reporters simply get their stories from the local reporters. doesn't make it right. all shanny needed was one friendly reporter. or one looking for a beat up or a controversy. no shortage.

by coincidence i was talking to a mate of mine yesterday who was chairman of one of the major AFL clubs (so not dissimilar to be chairman of an NFL team) and we started chatting about things like this. he said that week after week while in the job, he would wake up to read reports in the media quoting him. things he had never said. that none of his board/offsiders etc had ever said. and they were allegedly said to people he'd never spoken with. just made up.

i think that you place far far too much credibility in reports from sports journos. sure, there are some good ones but most simply know that to keep their jobs, they need to fill up the inches, create controversies and quite frankly, make crap up. so as soon as they get a sniff of something, they blow it up.

if asked to guess, i would say that either rg3 or someone in his camp said that they were looking forward to jay gruden being able to improve his pocket passing skills as he was keen not to be such a one dimensional QB. very easy for that to become rg3 refuses to run the read option. i really doubt it was anything more than that and short of a video of rg3 saying it, i'd be hard pressed to believe otherwise. i see no evidence other than claims by journos and journos quoting journos.

remember the timing. shanahan was done in DC. his time had been an utter disaster, bar the one year with rg3 and alfred morris. remember that it was shanahan's decision to put rg3 back in the playoff game when he was obviously injured and against the doc's advice. sure rg3 was keen to get back in but then what top sportsman is not keen to get back into the game (barring shane watson). it is up to shanahan to make the decision not to put him back, even if it reduced ourr chance of winning that one game. he failed.

that decision was the most crucial (not the only reason but a key one - and rg3 could well have tanked even if he did not go back) in destroying a very promising and exciting career. why wouldn't shanahan try and deflect blame and attention? his grab for short term glory was instrumental in destroying what could have been years of success. no coach wants that hanging over him.

shanahan was/is keen to coach elsewhere. it was well known that his time in DC was done. it was simply a matter of whether he resigned or was sacked. he was supposed to have been talking to other teams (again, who knows). if he wants to coach again, he needs the blame for the disaster in DC to be on anyone else. rg3 was the easy target.

if he did not get picked up by another team, then he wanted to be sacked as it meant the difference of some $5 mill. what better way to be sacked than to make it obvious you can't work with a QB who you know the owner will keep.

i remain unconvinced.

[Ken Gargett]

one last quick point. the one thing that everyone seems to agree on for rg3 is that he is no fool. so it is very hard to understand why a smart kid would tell his coach that, especially when he knows that his speed and elusiveness has been a major weapon. that makes no sense to me.

but pure speculation.

[Ken Gargett]

http://dailysnark.com/report-rgiii-tears-acl-walking-browns-facility-first-time/

the really scary thing is, if you read the comments, how many people seemed to believe this.

[mikemerry]

Personally, I'm still upset the Broncos wasted time and money on getting mark Sanchez and not putting 100% of their resources into rg3. Also I'm a huge shanahan fan, but he killed rg3. He's killed lots of players. That's just who he is and what he does.... In Denver he ripped through almost 11 runningbacks in one season. NO player puts their whole career on the line like that ever.... Look at how many games Luck didn't play this year... Enough said ...... Good luck rg3......in Cleveland you've already become a never was. Too bad...... And Ken you are right. Shanahan was rumoured to be going to Miami and Tampa if I'm not mistaken.. I just hope Tebow tries out again in Denver!!!

[Ken Gargett]

Personally, I'm still upset the Broncos wasted time and money on getting mark Sanchez and not putting 100% of their resources into rg3. Also I'm a huge shanahan fan, but he killed rg3. He's killed lots of players. That's just who he is and what he does.... In Denver he ripped through almost 11 runningbacks in one season. NO player puts their whole career on the line like that ever.... Look at how many games Luck didn't play this year... Enough said ...... Good luck rg3......in Cleveland you've already become a never was. Too bad...... And Ken you are right. Shanahan was rumoured to be going to Miami and Tampa if I'm not mistaken.. I just hope Tebow tries out again in Denver!!!

one story going around - as usual, who knows - had denver interested in rg3 but manager and coach both strong contacts with shanahan who opposed it. or at lest suggested better not to.

[mikemerry]

Maybe he's like super religious and therefore limits his focus on the field lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wabashcr]

first up, no problem at all with you being as argumentative as you like. rather that than someone avoiding what they think.

next, i still believe that very few people genuinely know the full story and i also believe that there is plenty of blame to go around all involved.

finally, i check most of the major skins sites, blogs, official websites, local media every day. so i am more than aware of the endless rumours and stories floating about. it is worth saying that it appears that the new GM has put a real stop to a lot of it. some of those 'usual' reporters are complaining that they can't get info.

also, if you look at the skins back then, the most likely sources, or the ones that are likely to have any info, are synder, allen and shanahan. synder, for all his faults, does not seem to leak stories and certainly would not be involved in dumping on his prized QB. allen also seems mnmore to do with the off field stuff than the actual footy and he is there because of his close links to synder. it makes little sense for him to be leaking this. that leaves shanahan and his camp. anyone else is likely to be speculating. so to me, the bloke most likely leaking is the one most likely to benefit. any jury would drop laughing if this was the evidence.

more specifically, i take the view that why wouldn't shanahan be saying things like that. absolutely in his interest for this story to get out, true or not.

i tried googling to see what i could come up with. the first reports on this discussed things much as you state but then it states very clearly - there is no suggestion that any of this (meaning refusal to run the read option) came from rg3 or his camp. again, who knows. but that was the first report i found so there is clearly room for speculation. and not all reporters are on board.

but sure, plenty of reporters have that story, though others had different ones. but these days, a great deal of sports scoops are simply rehashing what the bloke down the road wrote. so the stories get a life of their own with no foundation. those national reporters simply get their stories from the local reporters. doesn't make it right. all shanny needed was one friendly reporter. or one looking for a beat up or a controversy. no shortage.

by coincidence i was talking to a mate of mine yesterday who was chairman of one of the major AFL clubs (so not dissimilar to be chairman of an NFL team) and we started chatting about things like this. he said that week after week while in the job, he would wake up to read reports in the media quoting him. things he had never said. that none of his board/offsiders etc had ever said. and they were allegedly said to people he'd never spoken with. just made up.

i think that you place far far too much credibility in reports from sports journos. sure, there are some good ones but most simply know that to keep their jobs, they need to fill up the inches, create controversies and quite frankly, make crap up. so as soon as they get a sniff of something, they blow it up.

if asked to guess, i would say that either rg3 or someone in his camp said that they were looking forward to jay gruden being able to improve his pocket passing skills as he was keen not to be such a one dimensional QB. very easy for that to become rg3 refuses to run the read option. i really doubt it was anything more than that and short of a video of rg3 saying it, i'd be hard pressed to believe otherwise. i see no evidence other than claims by journos and journos quoting journos.

remember the timing. shanahan was done in DC. his time had been an utter disaster, bar the one year with rg3 and alfred morris. remember that it was shanahan's decision to put rg3 back in the playoff game when he was obviously injured and against the doc's advice. sure rg3 was keen to get back in but then what top sportsman is not keen to get back into the game (barring shane watson). it is up to shanahan to make the decision not to put him back, even if it reduced ourr chance of winning that one game. he failed.

that decision was the most crucial (not the only reason but a key one - and rg3 could well have tanked even if he did not go back) in destroying a very promising and exciting career. why wouldn't shanahan try and deflect blame and attention? his grab for short term glory was instrumental in destroying what could have been years of success. no coach wants that hanging over him.

shanahan was/is keen to coach elsewhere. it was well known that his time in DC was done. it was simply a matter of whether he resigned or was sacked. he was supposed to have been talking to other teams (again, who knows). if he wants to coach again, he needs the blame for the disaster in DC to be on anyone else. rg3 was the easy target.

if he did not get picked up by another team, then he wanted to be sacked as it meant the difference of some $5 mill. what better way to be sacked than to make it obvious you can't work with a QB who you know the owner will keep.

i remain unconvinced.

The timing you're talking about makes Shanahan's claims even more believable. You're correct he took a lot of heat for RG3 getting hurt in the Seattle game, and rightly so. It seems to me Shanahan should have been the one calling for an end to the running plays if he was concerned about saving face in Washington. But he knew those plays were critical to their success.

The reason RG3 would (and no doubt did in my mind) refuse to run the read option is pretty clear. He wasn't going to last very long taking the kind of hits he endured his first season. He and his people wanted him to be a pocket passer with immediate effect. Shanahan knew they wouldn't be any good without the read option. I don't really blame Griffin. He's far from the first to put his long term prospects ahead of the team's immediate interests. But let's call it what it is.

I think you're underestimating how many sources reporters have inside organizations. Players know what's going on in their teams. Assistants, trainers, everyone in Redskins Park knows what's happening with their franchise QB. I don't know who leaked all this or why. I agree it benefits Shanahan, but if it wasn't true, there would have been plenty of strongly worded leaks refuting it. What is most likely to me is that Griffin's stance rubbed a lot of players the wrong way.

We're never going to have the kind of concrete proof you're asking for, and you're of course free to believe what you like. For me the circumstantial evidence is pretty conclusive. As I said, I don't really even blame Griffin. We're talking about potentially generational wealth at stake for him. I do think a more gradual approach to converting to a pocket passer would have been more beneficial to everyone in hindsight. But I think he was the one at the time who had reason to shun that approach. Snyder backed him to protect his investment, and because he's generally clueless about football.

[Ken Gargett]

The timing you're talking about makes Shanahan's claims even more believable. You're correct he took a lot of heat for RG3 getting hurt in the Seattle game, and rightly so. It seems to me Shanahan should have been the one calling for an end to the running plays if he was concerned about saving face in Washington. But he knew those plays were critical to their success.

The reason RG3 would (and no doubt did in my mind) refuse to run the read option is pretty clear. He wasn't going to last very long taking the kind of hits he endured his first season. He and his people wanted him to be a pocket passer with immediate effect. Shanahan knew they wouldn't be any good without the read option. I don't really blame Griffin. He's far from the first to put his long term prospects ahead of the team's immediate interests. But let's call it what it is.

I think you're underestimating how many sources reporters have inside organizations. Players know what's going on in their teams. Assistants, trainers, everyone in Redskins Park knows what's happening with their franchise QB. I don't know who leaked all this or why. I agree it benefits Shanahan, but if it wasn't true, there would have been plenty of strongly worded leaks refuting it. What is most likely to me is that Griffin's stance rubbed a lot of players the wrong way.

We're never going to have the kind of concrete proof you're asking for, and you're of course free to believe what you like. For me the circumstantial evidence is pretty conclusive. As I said, I don't really even blame Griffin. We're talking about potentially generational wealth at stake for him. I do think a more gradual approach to converting to a pocket passer would have been more beneficial to everyone in hindsight. But I think he was the one at the time who had reason to shun that approach. Snyder backed him to protect his investment, and because he's generally clueless about football.

i completely agree that it does seem rg3 rubbed many of his teammates up the wrong way (which i would think would add to the idea that the reports from teammates carry less validity). but there were many reports of why. and many variations.

for me, the timing makes it much harder to believe shanahan but we won't agree on it.

as for teammates knowing, if rg3 did state this (i still think my version way way more plausible), there is no way he would do it in front of the team. no one is that stupid. it would have been to shanahan. so for the team to learn of it, do you think shanahan came out and told them? it just does not ring true.

but i suspect we'll just go back and forth.

the only other forum i am active on is a redskins forum. i will put this to them - and there are guys here who are focused on the skins 24 hours a day - as objectively as i can and see what the response is and let you know. i suspect we'll get some differing opinions there as well but it might shed light.

[Ken Gargett]

The timing you're talking about makes Shanahan's claims even more believable. You're correct he took a lot of heat for RG3 getting hurt in the Seattle game, and rightly so. It seems to me Shanahan should have been the one calling for an end to the running plays if he was concerned about saving face in Washington. But he knew those plays were critical to their success.

The reason RG3 would (and no doubt did in my mind) refuse to run the read option is pretty clear. He wasn't going to last very long taking the kind of hits he endured his first season. He and his people wanted him to be a pocket passer with immediate effect. Shanahan knew they wouldn't be any good without the read option. I don't really blame Griffin. He's far from the first to put his long term prospects ahead of the team's immediate interests. But let's call it what it is.

I think you're underestimating how many sources reporters have inside organizations. Players know what's going on in their teams. Assistants, trainers, everyone in Redskins Park knows what's happening with their franchise QB. I don't know who leaked all this or why. I agree it benefits Shanahan, but if it wasn't true, there would have been plenty of strongly worded leaks refuting it. What is most likely to me is that Griffin's stance rubbed a lot of players the wrong way.

We're never going to have the kind of concrete proof you're asking for, and you're of course free to believe what you like. For me the circumstantial evidence is pretty conclusive. As I said, I don't really even blame Griffin. We're talking about potentially generational wealth at stake for him. I do think a more gradual approach to converting to a pocket passer would have been more beneficial to everyone in hindsight. But I think he was the one at the time who had reason to shun that approach. Snyder backed him to protect his investment, and because he's generally clueless about football.

a person on that forum sent me a link -

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/1/9232961/robert-griffin-iii-washington-jay-gruden-dan-snyder-mike-shanahan-injury-concussion

this is a really interesting piece which goes over the entire timeline. very revealing.

to me, it makes clear a number of things.

1. the skins were monumentally dysfunctional at the time (mind you, that was no secret). for what it is worth, with scot M as the GM, they have largely turned this around. who knows for how long?

2. blame aplenty to go around.

3. whatever went on, you have to have some sympathy for the kid. he was a 23 year old, tossed into this cesspool. what chance...

4. he goes into what shanahan claims but really only skims the denials. not sure what that means. does he think it is not even worth bothering or does he think shanahan is convincing? the writer does seem to take the rg3 side for most of the piece so perhaps the former? i don't know.

5. i was wrong in saying the doc (james andrews, who i understand is one of america's most highly regarded orthopedic surgeons - i know players from a number of teams use him, even though he is contracted to the skins) said he could not go back in when he was injured. it was later when doc A wanted to hold off allowing rg3 back into the game until the 6th round of the new season but shanahan/management pushed for round 1.

6. that said, there is a clear discrepancy between him and shanahan on what happened. i know it is 'he said/she said' but who do you believe? the highly respected surgeon who could easily be shown to be lying (just need one person to say that he actually did examine rg3) or the coach who is desperately trying to save his job and avoid blame. for me, absolutely no question. it shows that shanahan will lie when it suits him. a strong reason why i have serious credibility issues when it comes to anything he says.

even if this changes nothing for you, i think it is a fascinating report on a tragic trainwreck of a career.

[El Presidente]

Ken

I wish him all the best.

in the end with the Skins he failed. Sport is competition. Better players take your spot. You compete to take it back.

I wish him every success with the Browns. It is a clean slate. In the end the excuses stop, wipe the board clean and make your mark....or not. History right now is up to be written by him.

It takes a little luck and plenty of cojones. I hope he has both.

[Ken Gargett]

Ken

I wish him all the best.

in the end with the Skins he failed. Sport is competition. Better players take your spot. You compete to take it back.

I wish him every success with the Browns. It is a clean slate. In the end the excuses stop, wipe the board clean and make your mark....or not. History right now is up to be written by him.

It takes a little luck and plenty of cojones. I hope he has both.

absolutely. i hope he becomes a star. would love to watch him at his best - except when he plays the skins (which he is doing at home for the skins this season). he has had little luck with injuries. lots can be balmed on him but an awful lot on those who should have done better.

the only good thing about it all is that i suspect that this godawful mess was what finally prompted synder to get a competent GM and that seems to have completely turned the franchise around. 20 years too late but, better late then never.