the great debate

[Ken Gargett]

In Melbourne for a tasting and had the opportunity to catch up with one of my very best mates – right back from end of school days.

Very intelligent chap who has done extremely well for himself. Spent quite a bit of time as CEO of one of our publicly listed companies. Been involved in all manner of things from telecommunications, technology, corporate restructures to saving international forests and more.

We caught up over breakfast and, as so often happens, the debate ranged far and wide, though one topic took centre place.

He is a fan of more recent vampire epics. I remain solidly and irresolutely immovable that none come near the classic of the genre – “Buffy, the Vampire Slayer”.

Apparently, there are now shows called 'Twilight' and 'True Blood'. Granted I have not seen them, but I still feel able to dismiss them. For many reasons. I might add that he also was muttering positive things about something called 'Gossip Girls'? But I have no idea if that is a vampire drama or if he is just a perve (that is not true – I know only too well that he is a perve).

And may I take this opportunity to state that if the rumours are true and there is to be a re-make of Buffy, may I just say, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME. Seriously? Why tamper with the classics? Would you re-write Shakespeare? Attempt to better Dylan or Springsteen? A line must be drawn in the sand.

Is there anyone else out there so misguided as to prefer these later wannabes?

I can remember when Buffy first aired. A drama about a teenage girl killing vampires and demons. To be honest, I did not think you'd get me watching it at the point of a gun. But the Sydney Morning Herald, one of our most respected newspapers, had a review calling it one of the best shows to hit television in years. I assumed that they were taking the piss, but apparently not. Several years later, they listed it as one of the all time top five shows. Sopranos, Mash, West Wing, I think. Forget the other. Possibly Fawlty Towers?

But the interest was piqued and it was on quite late, around the time I was getting home from work in those days. So I watched one or two. Not bad. Then I remember the moment that sold me. Indeed, I managed to spit my late night snack/replacement for dinner across the room. Part of vampire lore seems to be that they have no reflection. No, I have no idea why. Anyway, Angel, the dark, brooding, always in a singlet, vampire who has had his soul restored by a gypsy curse as punishment for all his killing (the theory being that now that he has a soul, he is in perpetual torment), is standing there, silent and serious. Willow (Buffy's nerdy computer geek friend) is terrified of him but finally says, 'so, are you a real vampire?'

He looks a bit surprised but grunts 'yes'.

'So, how do you shave?'

The way the show combined taking the piss out of its self, endless brilliant one-liners, ridiculous villains and demons, absurd plots, one seriously cute heroine, great fun and a planet rushing headlong to the apocalypse was just all too good. A tragedy that it ever ended.

I remember another time it completely took the piss out of itself. Nerdy librarian, Giles, who is the Slayer's watcher (tho of course, she ends up saving him endlessly), gets wind of the worst, most evil, unstoppable demon of all time, heading to Sunnydale (where else could it be set?). Panic all episode. Nothing can stop it. We see the drawing, in one of Giles' old books, of this evil beast. Terror everywhere. Finally, at the very end of the show, it arrives. All five inches high (from memory, Buffy just steps on it). Seems Giles forgot to read the the small print. “drawing to scale”. And if memory serves, it was Buffy that did the first one-off musical episode. And it wasn’t as bad as you'd think.

And great one-liners.

When Buffy has to tell her mother that she is the chosen one, the vampire slayer, her mother just looks at her and says, 'well, couldn't you just try not being the vampire slayer?' It is precisely what my mother would have said.

The spider episode. One of the gang, Xander I think, says (something like – these things stick in the mind but not always exactly literally), 'I really hate spiders. Nasty insects'. Willow points out that they are not insects, rather they are arachnids.

Xander - “they are from the Middle East?”

The obnoxious headmaster who is always trying to expel Buffy, says to Giles, 'there is trouble afoot. I can just smell it. It is like a sixth sense'.

Giles just looks over his glasses and replies, absolutely deadpan, 'no, that would be one of the five'.

How can you not love it! Accept no substitutes.

KBG

[CptKloss]

no doubt buffy was one of the best series on tv - ha! The musical episode .....

there's a new series that just started this season -Grimm that basically copies buffy MO (same producers) but it , of course does not compare....

oh by the way - I only started watching it when the series was nearing to the end....my wife has been watching it for a long time - but of course, I completely dismissed it, how more ridiculous could it get? Blonde chasing vampires with a wooden stick? And then I watched one episode....heh

[mazolaman]

Twilight, or twiglett, is apparently a Mormon safe vampire story, allegedly favouring their values. This from several well respected film reviewers and buffs.

Buffy is terrible.

LET THE RIGHT ONE IN! NOSFERATU!

[Hohenthal]

Dear Mr. Gargett,

Your opinion and preference in all honour,

but after all it`s only entertainment industry TV and a comparison with "Boss" or Shakespeare is a bit of a far reach for me - sorry.

Sincerely, Alex

[Phillycyclocross]

There is only one good vampire story. Bram Stoker did it right the first time. Vampires are supposed to be the soulless walking dead. As such, they should act like. Dismembering, devouring, and disemboweling every living human that they encounter. If you are a monster than by God you should act like one! These new age twilight sparkly vampires that don't kill anything and want to cry over their love lives make me want to vomit. Man up!

As far as Buffy and True Blood - Buffy. No question. That show was great entertainment. And the musical episode was pure genius. If you want to watch something comparable, Supernatural.

[Styler]

This has to be the most unexpected thread topics ever, I almost thought someone had hijacked your forum account!

I was/am a huge Buffy fan and it never ceases to annoy me when people take one look at the dodgy make up and one liners then see fit to dismiss it as trash. The writing is superb and often very funny. The S4 episode Hush springs to mind where no one can speak, I think they won some sort of award for it. They are trying to discuss how to kill a particular vampire and Buffy makes a hand gesture that she thinks mimics the act of thrusting a stake into a vampire. Cue everyone else getting the wrong idea entirely!

I must say though that the spin-off Angel is possibly even better if not quite as funny. Wesley (who starts off in Buffy) probably becomes the best character in either show by progressing far from his blubbering idiot beginnings. Very well written.

These modern vampire series are very much geared towards the emo crowd, they take themselves very seriously. Far too seriously in the case of Twilight which would like to think of it's self as dark and brooding but which actually has all the menace of an episode of Sesame Street. True Blood is a bit better, it's dark enough to warrant taking it's self a little more seriously but still a very different beast to Buffy.

[Puros Y Vino]

The original Buffy movie was a hoot. A series really pushed it IMO. I wasn't a fan. Too "teeny" for my taste. Of the new shows, TruBlood is the only one I enjoy. Twilight is an abomination. Near Dark and Lost Boys are two excellent but somewhat unappreciated vampire classics.

[Stalebread]

.

I'm with you 100% on this, KG.

I even think there's room for a corporate leadership training program called, "What Would Buffy Do?"

.

[benjaminbbush]

I love bad vampire movies---the Blade Trilogy, the one with Keaneau Reeves, the Underworld series, Van Helsing, even the Lost Boys. The worse they are the more I love them, especially since the worse they are the more they try to compensate with HOT female stars (e.g. Kate Beckinsale).

My wife HATES these movies. She cannot stand them and my putting one on will drive her from the room. She is especially helpless when the SyFy channel shows the entire Blade trilogy.

BUT, when it comes to TV shows geared toward teenie-bopper girls (One Tree Hill, the Hills, etc.) my who is a 33 year old mother of a six month old that has a masters and is sitting for the CPA exam could seriously spend every waking moment watching these shows. She has them running continuously on NetFlix streaming.

These shows make me run from the house screaming much like one of those teenie-bopper girls.

That is the longwinded set up to say this: MY WIFE LOVES BUFFY AND ANGEL. I have never watched more than 2 mintues and quickly chalked them up to teenie-bopper girl shows and proceeded to leave the scene screaming like one.

So, I think in my humble (and probably wrong opinion) that those shows are more like 90210 than good old fashion C-rated vampire movies. But far be it for me to judge anyone for their likes or dislikes-remember that I think the Blade Trilogy and the Underworld series are gold.

[Omskakas]

Ken, I'm not sure if you're trolling...

..Or if you're high.

If you're interested in vampire movies (while sober). I recommend you this.

[TankerT]

I will watch Twilight if it ends with Buffy showing up and slaying them all.

Go team Buffy! (Sorry... Kirsten Whatsername has nothing on Sarah Michelle Gellar either...)

[brazoseagle]

Am I in the right place?

[Lotusguy]

Who are you and what have you done with Ken????

[cigcars]

I can't say I'm really a vampire fan...although I did fall head over heels in love with Frank Langella's Dracula in 1979 OH!! what a gorgeous good lookin' creature he was! As for the Twilights, I've TRIED to endure them all the way through...B-O-R-R-R-I-N-G I've always liked the wolfman a bunch, but the newest crop are only mouth-wide-open dogs running around on all fours, not the cool half man, half beast wearing a shorn tattered pair of pants over his furry legs. It's the ONLY time I've enjoyed Oliver Reed, in all his feral majesty climbing buildings and baying at the moon. Lon Chaney, Jr. at Universal would allow no one else to play "his baby" as he called it "The Wolfman." I've never seen Buffy despite Rutger Hauer's appearance in the 1986 movie.

[El Presidente]

Am I in the right place?

.........we can't be all having the same nightmare

Ken has been a Buffy fan for as long as I have known him.

Springsteen...Dylan....modern art....Rugby/Reds -Wallabies...Fly Fishing....Fine Wine....Arsenal...Skins....and BUFFY.

If only Buffy fought battles against Household grime ....and not vampires.

[Ken Gargett]

If only Buffy fought battles against Household grime ....and not vampires.

if only...

you wanted content!

and may i say, first time i have encountered anyone who prefers the film to the series.

and yes, i enjoy supernatural. not quite buffy's class (and she would so kick their collective arses) but fun.

and i can't believe you think i can be summed up in one line. not sure if that is more tragic for you or me.

[oliverchang514]

I love bad vampire movies---the Blade Trilogy, the one with Keaneau Reeves, the Underworld series, Van Helsing, even the Lost Boys.

So, I think in my humble (and probably wrong opinion) that those shows are more like 90210 than good old fashion C-rated vampire movies. But far be it for me to judge anyone for their likes or dislikes-remember that I think the Blade Trilogy and the Underworld series are gold.

I do love watching the Blade Trilogy movies, especially the first one and the underground scene in the club with blood gushing from the sprinklers.

Is Ken trolling as a previous poster mentioned? I'm surprised I read his entire post devoted to Buffy.. This has to be a different forum, that or I'm in the twilight zone.

[Fuzz]

Nothing wrong with the Buffster. I'll watch the occaisional episode on Fox 8 in the wee hours of the morn. I'll agree the musical episode was done pretty well.

As for Twilight, that has done more damage to the vampire genre than Dracula 2000. Twilight is nothing but a kinky girl trying to decide if she'd rather have her cherry popped by a cold bitey dead thing or a warm bitey furry thing. I mean, you got to be pretty depraved if you're into bestiality or necrophilia.

[Colt45]

Is Ken trolling as a previous poster mentioned? I'm surprised I read his entire post devoted to Buffy.. This has to be a different forum, that or I'm in the twilight zone.

The longer you've been a member, the more sense it might make

[jedipastor]

Wow. Ken, my opinion of you just quadrupled! Good taste in cigars, wine, AND tv shows?

I'm a big fan of Buffy. Like you, I mocked it for years having never watched more than 10 minutes of it (hypocrisy ... I'm working on it). Then I watched the show FIrefly--also by Joss Whedon--and LOVED it. Joss and his writing team just do such an amazing job at writing characters that you actually give a crap about, unlike the vast majority of TV these days. So I figured I'd give his first show Buffy a try. It's brilliant (though I like Angel a little better, more mature subject matter and the Buffy character herself get's a little annoying sometimes, lol). And yes, Joss Whedon is "The Boss" of the television creation world

My wife had never seen Buffy or Angel, but we just watched through all of them this year. She really enjoyed them as well. Though now she has the hots for David Boreanaz, so that sorta backfired, lol!

BTW, if you guys have never seen Firefly or the follow-up movie Serenity, do yourself the favor! My favorite show of all time. The Blu Ray is in sale on Amazon for like $16 US.

[anacostiakat]

I find True Blood entertaining. Even if they mangle the books story lines horribly.

I never watched Buffy or Angel or Twilight. . .

[Stalebread]

(snip)

BTW, if you guys have never seen Firefly or the follow-up movie Serenity, do yourself the favor! My favorite show of all time.

YES! Was travelling a while back and caught part of the movie on TV. Came home and ordered both the movie and the TV series. Great stuff.

.

[Ken Gargett]

Wow. Ken, my opinion of you just quadrupled! Good taste in cigars, wine, AND tv shows?

I'm a big fan of Buffy. Like you, I mocked it for years having never watched more than 10 minutes of it (hypocrisy ... I'm working on it). Then I watched the show FIrefly--also by Joss Whedon--and LOVED it. Joss and his writing team just do such an amazing job at writing characters that you actually give a crap about, unlike the vast majority of TV these days. So I figured I'd give his first show Buffy a try. It's brilliant (though I like Angel a little better, more mature subject matter and the Buffy character herself get's a little annoying sometimes, lol). And yes, Joss Whedon is "The Boss" of the television creation world

My wife had never seen Buffy or Angel, but we just watched through all of them this year. She really enjoyed them as well. Though now she has the hots for David Boreanaz, so that sorta backfired, lol!

BTW, if you guys have never seen Firefly or the follow-up movie Serenity, do yourself the favor! My favorite show of all time. The Blu Ray is in sale on Amazon for like $16 US.

saw serenity and a little bit of firefly and enjoyed them. angel is also terrific. not quite the same humour as buffy but very enjoyable. thought that the big green singing monster was terrific.

[Fuzz]

saw serenity and a little bit of firefly and enjoyed them. angel is also terrific. not quite the same humour as buffy but very enjoyable. thought that the big green singing monster was terrific.

Ken is getting his geek on!

Next we'll be hearing the Ken is going to join Smithy at the next cosplay convention, dressed as Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan!

[Ken Gargett]

Next we'll be hearing the Ken is going to join Smithy at the next cosplay convention, dressed as Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan!

only thing i understood in that sentence was "join smithy' and i think we all know the chances of that!

what is a cosplay? let alone the other things?