Assessing Cigars to Age

[El Presidente]

I was asked earlier today in an e-mail to explain how I assess cigars to put down and age.

You may find it of interest and I would love the opinion of forum members on how they assess as well.

Ageing. My assessment criteria.

15 points * Wrapper with good sheen/oil. Can be Colorado claro or Maduro but it needs good sheen. It must also be tensile and thin.

I am not concerned about wrapper marking imperfections (sun spots/water drops).

20 points * Aroma at cold. It must have a decadent richness. I will assess the aroma from the full box and then again from the foot of the cigar. The nose knows.

30 points * Construction. I am at my most peeved when the former two points are spot on but construction lets the box down.

No use laying down poorly constructed cigars. You can get lucky with tight cigars in that they will open up over time at

Lower humidity as the fresh (moist) tobacco dries out. Rarely have I had a loose rolled cigar that provides something

special.

15 points *Heritage/Lineage. Some blends when done properly age magnificently. Some of my favourites are Cohiba Robusto

Esplendido/Siglo IV/Siglo III. Upmann Magnum 48/50/Winston/2. JLS2. HDM Dieux. SLR DC. Diplomatico 2. Partagas 898 Connies 1/2/3 Montecristo Especial. There are plenty more and others will have their favourites.

20 points *First Hand Experience. If you have a series of great cigar experiences from a particular period (say current Mag 50 or 898

Partagas) and you can locate others from the first three points on this list then purchase with confidence. You are looking

For cigars which deliver richness of flavour, density of smoke. It may not yet have true flavour complexity but you know

you are on a winner.

As for the period of time it will take to "Age" that is a sampling issue. I tend to take a cigar from an ageing box at least every year and assess. Don't make the mistake of not looking at them for 5-10 years. You may find that a box of 898 is magnificent at 2 years or 4 years but past its best (to your taste) at 8. Others may love that box at 12 -15-20 years for different reasons. Each ones taste is personal. I have too many cigars I have waited for only to discover I preferred them when sampled two years ago. If the cigar provides a superb experience then I will plow through the box. If it is a 96 box of cigars...am I going to wait for them to become a 98 box of cigars? There is always the risk that for your taste they will evolve into a 90 box of cigars. Each one to there own.

Cheers!

Rob

[Dbone]

Pres, what a great read. I've often read about aging to peak potential regarding packaging. Cab is better than dress boxes. Maybe I can believe this, some dress boxes I have don't close fully. Also, some are lined with paper, some are wood with a nice clasp. Some variances and I'm sure it somehow effects how the rest over a very long period. I might add, I have very little experience in aged cuban cigars.

I gotta ask, Pres, what's the oldest cigar of which you felt was at it's peak?

[CohibaBehike]

Great topic! You really hit the nail on the head with "each one to there own"! In my experience, (which is not as vast) I'd rather smoke cigars around the 5-8 year mark which still have their richness but still a subtle more complex flavor. If I sit past the 8 year mark I would rather wait until around a 15-20 year mark. However, I have only been seriously aging cigars for 3 years now, however, I have had the opportunity to smoke plenty of vintage cigars to find these tastes.

This is only IMO, I'm interested to see what other people do to take from that.

[El Presidente]

I gotta ask, Pres, what's the oldest cigar of which you felt was at it's peak?

Thats a tough one because the oldest cigars I have had have been gits shared with friends around the world so rarley has there been a series of same cigars from the same box to compare them. Hard to ascertain peak.

I remember sharing a Davidoff No 1 with Guillaume (1987 from memory) and I had had plenty from the same year/shipment. 20+ years down the line they were sublime and for me perfection. I finished them over 6 months.

Have had cigars from every decade of the last century and some from the prior. Some were magnificent and others well past their best (in my opinion). Many were just average.

Have had great 30 year and 40 year Monte's and Upmanns but at the same time some hellishly diappointing ones.

I think the best aged cigars are those you age yourself. I am not sure outside of 1-2 vendors around the world that I would purchase true aged cigars (15years+).

[ChanceSchmerr]

Have had cigars from every decade of the last century and some from the prior.

You Sir are my hero. I, indeed most of us, can only dream of having such an opportunity.

Well, got the last 3 decades out of the way, anyhow. That's a start.

[El Presidente]

You Sir are my hero. I, indeed most of us, can only dream of having such an opportunity.

Well, got the last 3 decades out of the way, anyhow. That's a start.

Almost each and every one of them a generous gift and shared with members here from around the world. Great times!

[BatFastard]

Great info and even better read Prez!

[n2advnture]

Wrapper"...It must also be tensile and thin. I am not concerned about wrapper marking imperfections (sun spots/water drops

I'd throw in a couple more adjectives like silky and delicate as well. You can just feel some wrappers and tell (from experience) that they are too thick.

Aroma at cold.

While I do pre-light draw tests I don't pay too much attention to the pre-light taste as things typically change once you add fire. A super loose pre-light draw usually doesn't bode well for good aging.

Construction "Rarely have I had a loose rolled cigar that provides something special."

Completely agree with this. A spongy, underfilled cigar only gets more spongy and underfilled with age. Not to say that the flavors still can't become complex but the draw typically is way too loose and creates a fast burning cigar that gets to hot and requires a lot of attention while smoking to enjoy said complexities.

Heritage/Lineage. Some blends when done properly age magnificently.

Good rule of thumb is to get smokes known for aging well, especially in times when they are stellar fresh. Sir Winstons, Esplends, Partagas 898, CoRo, Co Lanceros, PL PCs, PSD4s and tons more are great starting points for aging. There is a reason why you can't find (very often) aged versions of these.

First Hand Experience. For cigars which deliver richness of flavour, density of smoke. It may not yet have true flavour complexity but you know you are on a winner."

This is key to me above all the others. Having a lot experience with the marcas and vitolas will greatly improve one's odds of selecting boxes that will lend themselves to good long term aging.

"...Each ones taste is personal. "

This is also key as everyone's palate is different. I prefer complexity and subtle flavors and typically get these from 7-10 years (some 12-15) but know many (like you) who prefer cigars that have more of the young, "in your face" flavors.

I have some 70s Part 898s that are still SUPER complex.

The 2nd most enjoyable part of the hobby (1st being meeting new people through cigars) is putting boxes down and sampling them ever 4-6 months to see how they develop as they age. It's quite enjoyable to me, especially when you've managed enough self control to smoke a box at 10 years.

Great post Rob!

[anacostiakat]

"...

I was asked earlier today in an e-mail to explain how I assess cigars to put down and age.

...

As for the period of time it will take to "Age" that is a sampling issue. I tend to take a cigar from an ageing box at least every year and assess. Don't make the mistake of not looking at them for 5-10 years. You may find that a box of 898 is magnificent at 2 years or 4 years but past its best (to your taste) at 8. Others may love that box at 12 -15-20 years for different reasons. Each ones taste is personal. I have too many cigars I have waited for only to discover I preferred them when sampled two years ago. If the cigar provides a superb experience then I will plow through the box. If it is a 96 box of cigars...am I going to wait for them to become a 98 box of cigars? There is always the risk that for your taste they will evolve into a 90 box of cigars. Each one to there own. "

This is pretty close to what I follow as well and I agree as well that it is very subjective.

I either follow the 2 box rule or will follow up a box with another if I acquired the first one to sample. If I like them I will smoke them. Keeping the second buried. My thinking is that as I acquire more boxes of the same I will either keep more, or not.

I really do not follow any "must have" rules regarding smell, etc. It is all based on me.

[adic88]

This is a good read.

For me, there is one other factor besides those Prez mentioned -- and that's how the cigar tastes.

A "young" cigar that has aging potential provides a bit of a bite on the palate; not really harshness, but it's really easy to mistake it for harshness. A little rough tickling at the back of the throat; when i feel that tickle, it tells me that the cigar needs more time.

If i get a tickle, i don't touch the box again for 6 months. If i still get a tickle then, i don't touch it for another 12-18 months.

[Puros Y Vino]

Great article. I have only been smoking cigars for 3 years so aging them has not been in my scope, though I have bought several aged cigars. I would say that another criteria would be the strength of the cigar. A very strong cigar would most likely "soften" over time while maintaining some of its' richness.

[PLUSH]

Great information guys. Being rather new in CC I have no idea what to age. I have just been buying for what I am smoking right now.

[stunod]

Rob, when aging is it better to have lower humidity, say 65% as opposed to 69 or 70%

[ChanceSchmerr]

I really think this a great thread, and one that needs to be moved into the Classic Posts Forum once we have finished with comments in here. I think it's very helpful that Rob has posted his Ageing Criteria on here, and I'll explain why...

I've only been cigar-crazy for just over 3 years now. Having tried most of the CC's I've wanted to at this point, I'm pretty comfortable with my tastes and know what I like - and I like both aged and new cigars, for different reasons. I love the idea of buying cigars to age yourself, and that's pretty much what I've been doing now. I have bought aged cigars from merchants before - but that is because I havn't been in long enough to have aged any cigars myself, and I do enjoy what a cigar with some years on it has to offer. That said, I've managed to gather up enough aged cigars in my home humidor that I won't need to buy many more aged cigars to last me until my personally aged ones have hit their time, unless they are discontinued and I like 'em - if you know me, you know I'm quite the discontinued cigar fan (and I regularly pester Rob & Lisa for cigars I know they probably won't have, but can't help but ask!).

In the meantime, most of the cigars that I am buying now are newer cigars to age myself - and these fall into three categories

1) Newly discontinued cigars that I can't miss out on to age myself (Party SdCs, Dip 4s, SLR Coronas, etc)

2) The Odd RE/LE that I enjoy (Monte Sublimes, PL Dalias when they show up)

3) Current Production cigars that I really enjoy (Party Presidentes, PLPCs, SP Belicosos, P898s when I finally see a PSP box that hasn't yet been sold...)

The Problem, of course - is that I live in a wonderful country that taxes the living *expletive* out of tobacco, and because I can rarely get to countries with decent cigar prices - I cannot personally approve (pre-purchase) most boxes of cigars I buy to age myself, because I can't afford to walk into a Canadian B&M and buy a box off their shelf. This means that the majority of my cigars I buy to age come from an online supplier such as Rob - and this is why his standards for ageing are so helpful. Knowing I can ask him for an HQ/PSP box of something and knowing that he most often comes through (unless I have my chronic bad timing pop up or they are discontinued and Rob doesn't have them for the 59th time!) makes all the difference to me - I know that if I want to buy a box of cigars to age - I will have someone with high standards find me what I'm looking for, and even provide pictoral proof If I ask, so I don't have to worry about what I'm getting in the mail when I do have it shipped - I will know it already meets my standards. This has made all the difference, and why Czar keeps getting my business. Sure, you could complain that the HQ/PSP premium puts the cost up - but ****, if you want the best cigars to age, you'll pay that premium. I love a good deal and hate to pay more than necessary for anything - but with cigars purchased online, you almost always get what you pay for. Sometimes you might get lucky with a supplier who just sends out the box without guaranteeing the quality of the contents, but I like to be sure if I can't see it myself beforehand.

It also helps that Rob values what I do - Oily wrapper, quality construction (getting SO tired of plugged cigars from the dark ages of 99-01) and aroma. If I was a big fan of thick, toothy wrappers - I probably wouldn't care who I ordered from LOL.

I also agree with the trying-a-cigar-from-a-box-once-a-year idea as well. I do this with my box of FEB 08 SLR Coronas and already find an improvement in the taste of these cigars from when I first got them. The only boxes I won't smoke from is those in the Online Humidor - and that's because I can't get at them yet!

Great Thread, Prez - and very helpful to know what you're looking for. Just solidifies my reasoning for going to you first for my online purchases!

[Puros Y Vino]

I really think this a great thread, and one that needs to be moved into the Classic Posts Forum once we have finished with comments in here. I think it's very helpful that Rob has posted his Ageing Criteria on here, and I'll explain why...

...........

Great Thread, Prez - and very helpful to know what you're looking for. Just solidifies my reasoning for going to you first for my online purchases!

I totally agree. I'd even suggest you make use of the Czar's Cigar locker. I've just tossed a BHK56 box in there for future enjoyment. They're storing it in a top of the line facility so I know they're safe and guaranteed by the Czar. If you can keep your mitts off some of your purchases, toss 'em in the locker for aging.

[ChanceSchmerr]

I totally agree. I'd even suggest you make use of the Czar's Cigar locker. I've just tossed a BHK56 box in there for future enjoyment. They're storing it in a top of the line facility so I know they're safe and guaranteed by the Czar. If you can keep your mitts off some of your purchases, toss 'em in the locker for aging.

Agreed - I do exactly that, with about 500 cigars in there at last count. A great system for keeping the cigars out of sight, out of mind for a certain period of time!

[Puros Y Vino]

Agreed - I do exactly that, with about 500 cigars in there at last count. A great system for keeping the cigars out of sight, out of mind for a certain period of time!

500? Nice. Maybe I should change my user id to "ChanceSchmer" and cross my fingers for an administrative error?

[El Presidente]

Rob, when aging is it better to have lower humidity, say 65% as opposed to 69 or 70%

I wouldn't get too concerned over it. My preference is as cool as possible and 61- 63%.

I think that temperature plays a big part in manipulating aging speed. The online lockers are at 14-16 degrees Celcius which is where I lke it. No proof mind you. The aroma at cold to me is far more intense for a box "kept cool" over time compared tothe same box at 18-19 Celsius. The flavour more pungeant. Again, just a personal observation over time.

[CanuckSARTech]

I wouldn't get too concerned over it. My preference is as cool as possible and 61- 63%.

I think that temperature plays a big part in manipulating aging speed. The online lockers are at 14-16 degrees Celcius which is where I lke it. No proof mind you. The aroma at cold to me is far more intense for a box "kept cool" over time compared tothe same box at 18-19 Celsius. The flavour more pungeant. Again, just a personal observation over time.

Well put, Rob.

I completely agree with everything in your initial post. I myself don't give a percentage/point-weighting to it really, but I do hold certain items (like experience with marca/vitola) of higher value than others. But, the whole package of things to look for as you describe are spot-on to me.

I find this all very similar to your HQ/PSP program, albeit with a few more "experience" items in there for the consideration of long-term aging.

I also like what you added above - yes, I find cigars last longer (retain flavours?) when stored more cool, but still with that similar 60-65% RH level. While I have my desktop a bit higher (68%-ish), and then my cabinet sitting right at 64-67% generally, my giant coolerdor, for long-term stuff, is at 62% and 59-61 F (16 Celsius, or so). I've found that works well, and granted, right now I have nothing older than 2001.

The only consideration that I would add is something that I almost got bit with.

As others have said, sample a single stick from each box at least once per year. It's always a good indication as to how things are developing. Once every six months or so is even better, depending on the history you have with a cigar. The only exception I make is if I have two or more boxes of the exact same type, date, factory code, make up, etc. - then, I basically know what's kinda going on with all those boxes, fingers crossed.

But, the consideration with this is, is that even if you don't sample up the cigars every 6 months to a year or so, be sure to open them up and inspect them. For beetles, mold, etc. Whether H S.A. is doing a freezing program or not, or even if you do it yourself as well, it's always good to double check. For the first 2 years, I'd definitely want to open the boxes to check every 3 months (seasonally/quarterly), or at least every 6 months at a minimum. After that first two years, you can at least rest assured that things should be good for the longterm. I'd still continue to open and check them every 6 months to a year, at least, during the long haul while they're aging.

Again, this is for the one in a thousand chance. But, it's worth taking two minutes for each box every 3 or 6 months or so, and ensuring that things are aging smoothly.

It'd be a shame to open a box after 6 years, to find absolute filth.

Excellent thread topic, Rob. Thanks very much for sharing!

[joeypots]

Rob, and everyone else, any thoughts on aging in tubes?

[ZAZ]

Rob, and everyone else, any thoughts on aging in tubes?

I'm interested in this as well.....

[PigFish]

While an aged beautiful cigar is a beautiful thing... beautiful things don't always smoke beautifully! I really only age cigars as a matter of not being able to smoke all my cigars today. I smoke the good ones now and wait on the others. I find it odd that I may save the worst of all cigars to age. It is intuitive to wait to see if cigars change for the better with time and I should probably sell the cigars that I don't like to another who might appreciate them now and stock different cigars, ones that I feel have better potential but I don't. I actually find that on the secondary market many are more concerned with the age itself and their perception as to whether the brand and vitola has the potential for age than the empirical evidence of same.

Tracking my own cigars over the past years I have concluded (no way to prove or disprove my beliefs) that a high level of congeners is what makes a great cigar to age. Cigars that are tannic to me today seem to develop the aromatic compound taste that I like in the aged cigar of the future. When I have experienced tannic cigars, regardless of looks or construction, those are the ones that I believe will develop better than others. Since I can smoke a cigar only once, I kill both the proof and the subjective evedece with each sample. All I can do is hope that the sibling cigar has enough of the same content to prove my theory.

I have linked a relationship with congeners and the potential for a better cigar tomorrow. I am convinced though my own experience that my theory is true. I have to admit however, that based on aforementioned, the fact that each cigar is an individual and may have little in common with its siblings in the same box, I am only guessing!

Cheers. -Piggy

[PLUSH]

Tracking my own cigars over the past years I have concluded (no way to prove or disprove my beliefs) that a high level of congeners is what makes a great cigar to age.

I have linked a relationship with congeners and the potential for a better cigar tomorrow.

Cheers. -Piggy

Congeners, as in toxins?

[Mr.T]

Great thread and fun to see everyone's thoughts and observations. I don't buy NCs by the box to smoke or age. Since we can't buy ccs in this country I rely heavily on Lineage/Heritage and second hand experience, e.g. making an informed decision based on trusted sources and fellow BOTL when buying boxes for the purposes of ageing.

[PigFish]

Congeners, as in toxins?

... as in tannins.

From Wiki:

A congener (from Latin roots meaning "born together" or "within the same race or kind") has several different meanings depending on the field in which it is used. Colloquially, it is used to mean a person or thing like another, in character or action.

Contents [hide]

1 Biology

2 Chemistry

3 Genetics

4 In alcoholic beverages

5 References

6 External links

[edit]Biology

In biology, congeners are organisms within the same genus.[1] A related term referring to members of the same species is conspecific. Congeners and conspecifics within the same geographical region can compete.

[edit]Chemistry

Example of a congener: the number and locations of Cl groups can vary

In chemistry, congeners are related chemicals, e.g., elements in the same group of the periodic table, or derivatives thereof.

There are 209 congeners of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB) as well as 209 congeners of polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDE).

Congeners of oleic acids can modify cell membrane behavior protecting against tumors or having effects on blood pressure.

Congeners refer to the other elements in a group in the periodic table. For example, the congeners of the Group 11 element copper are silver and gold. Similarly, sodium chloride and potassium chloride may be considered congeners.

[edit]Genetics

In genetics, congenic organisms are organisms with very similar genomes, except for a small fraction. For example, recombinant congenic mice strains are produced in laboratories as a tool to study genetic disease.

[edit]In alcoholic beverages

In the alcoholic beverages industry, congeners are substances produced during fermentation. These substances include small amounts of chemicals such as acetone, acetaldehyde, tannins, and other higher alcohols (e.g. propanol and glycols). Congeners are responsible for most of the taste, aroma, and color of alcoholic beverages. It has been suggested that these substances contribute to the symptoms of a hangover.[2]