El Presidente Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 http://fortune.com/2015/02/23/cuban-cigar-maker-eyes-25-30-of-u-s-market-if-embargo-lifted/
Habana Mike Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hmm, "Habanos S.A. also promised to preserve the quality of its Cohibas, Montecristos and Romeo y Julietas should it need to ramp up production to meet any new U.S. demand" What happens to the rest?
free85 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 "But lifting of the embargo completely would, and Fernandez Maique said any increased production would not impact the quality of the Cuban cigar, which most aficionados consider the best in the world." I have much fear. I doubt, very much, that some how, magically, a business would start producing more product, increase the quality of it's product (or even keep it the same) and keep price points stable.
semifan1 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Wasn't able to read the article at work, but I would think the people that would get hurt in the short time would be the European side and others. I could see Habano's S.A cutting back (shipping stock) to fill what they need in the US. I Think that there would be a big surge in buying at first from the US, but then calm down once the novalty wore off. 1
Popular Post Garrettbuckeye Posted February 24, 2015 Popular Post Posted February 24, 2015 I can't even imagine the amount of fakes that will show up here in the states. I think many cc smokers in the US would rather things stay as they are. 11
canadianbeaver Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Does anyone know what the story will be with the two sets of duplicate brands once the Cubans enter the U.S. market? I am sure this is a dumb question, but hey, I am a canadianbeaver.
DropTopDee Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 What about the FDA and their regulations. May be difficult to get "new" product approved.
earthson Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hmm, "Habanos S.A. also promised to preserve the quality of its Cohibas, Montecristos and Romeo y Julietas should it need to ramp up production to meet any new U.S. demand" What happens to the rest? Your average shmo, I'd imagine, wouldn't know what to buy beyond the above 3 and perhaps Partagas. Meanwhile, us RA, PL, and RG freaks can continue to buy with ease!
Blakes Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I think it has already been posted here but there was an interesting interview on youtube with Simon Chase where he touched upon this subject a little. I think a lot of things will come into play. Here is the link, I can't remember where he talks on this but the full interview is worth watching. Not related but another interesting statistic he mentions is that the total world wide production of the D4 in the mid 80's was 5000 cigars! How times change! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQe_3l14c0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmXGTbiIr8
earthson Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 But what will the quality of these be is the question? I'm not too worried about the quality of my PLMC (often hit or miss, anyway), RGPC (tops so far), or RASS/RAG/RASCC (I'm batting 0.99 or something with these)
CaptainQuintero Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Simon Chase pointed out that Cuba had always been very faithful to those who stood by then. I don't see Europe getting the short end of the stick. If anything probably a reduced supply to the US when it comes in to: -help maintain demand in the US -make prices in the US be as high as whatever Cuba wants -help keep quality steady as supply is steadily increased.
canadianbeaver Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Altadis owns (50% of HSA) enough of the "brand names" to put a bunch of cigars on the shelves. Too lazy here to check the Altadis site, but IIRC it's 6 or 7 lines. Now that I think of it, I think Altadis sold out to Swedish Match? who then sold out to Imperial? Now my head hurts someone will undoubtedly follow up with a list of lines that won't be contested. And count me in the group that would prefer no change initially, but then I learned about living conditions there Yes, but that will not help when there are two sets, one Cuban and one non, with virtually identical labels, save for a minor detail design change. As for the marketshare, just because they are available, does not mean the market will cough up th dough for them. The fact that Macanudo is number one says a lot.
polarbear Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 What about the FDA and their regulations. May be difficult to get "new" product approved. I see this as the major hurdle for HSA should the embargo be lifted Even if this round of FDA controls gets spanked down in the Senate its only a matter of time before they have another crack at it. At this point, I think the main argument keeping FDA controls at bay is the NC Markers claiming the controls will put a lot of American Companies out of business. If 70% of them fall thanks to HSAs inclusion in the market, that argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to
johndalton44 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Does anyone know what the story will be with the two sets of duplicate brands once the Cubans enter the U.S. market? I am sure this is a dumb question, but hey, I am a canadianbeaver. General Cigar Co. and Cubatabaco have already been battling this out in the 2nd Circuit Ct of Appeals, USPTO Trademark Trial and Appeal Board (TTAB), Fed Circuit, and finally the Supreme Court of the US (SCOTUS)Cubatabaco recently won a ruling at the US Ct of Appeals for the Federal Circuit that vacated and overruled a 2013 TTAB ruling that said Cubatabaco had no standing to challenge the trademarks registered to General in the USA, such as Cohiba, because of the *embargo.* From the Fed Circuit decision, "“Because the USPTO refused Cubatabaco registration based on a likelihood of confusion with General Cigar’s Registrations, Cubatabaco has a real interest in cancelling the Registrations and a reasonable belief that the Registrations blocking its application are causing it damage. Cubatabaco therefore has a cause of action under the Lanham Act to seek cancellation of the Registrations.”" General petitioned SCOTUS for a writ of certiorari (whether SCOTUS will take up case) due to the circuit split between a 2nd Circuit ruling in 2004 that basically said the opposite from the Fed Circuit in 2014. On Feb. 23, 2015, SCOTUS denied the petition, presumably paving the way for Cubatabaco to start challenging some of these registrations, perhaps in full force after the embargo has lifted. As of now, they can already argue they have standing to pursue trademark cancellations for Cohiba (it has a troubled registration past with General). But that's the first step in registering their own. SCOTUS ruling: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/general-cigar-co-inc-v-empresa-cubana-del-tabaco-dba-cubatabaco/
FLB03TT Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 The lawsuits between NC brands already in the US market and CC brands looking to enter the US who share the same name will be epic. The FDA will almost certainly get their regulations thoroughly tangled up in the quagmire. 70% CC penetration of the US market may happen, but it won't happen any time soon.
Colt45 Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 "Cuban cigar-maker Habanos S.A. expects to immediately gain 25 to 30% of the U.S. premium cigar market if the United States lifts its trade embargo and up to 70% of the market within a few years."They'll really need to up their game. 2
canadianbeaver Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I think the money will not be in the Cuban cigars themselves. There just are not that many cigar smokers in America. It willl be in the cigar brand advertising, particularly the media placement, tons of material produced and man hours paid to get this legislation processed (both public and private sector) and ultimately passed.
riazp Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 HOnestly, what i really want to see is what guys like Jonathan drew, Pepin, Pete Johnson, Padron's will be able to do with Cuban Tobacco leaf. I think they can give habanos a good run for their money if they can have easy access to cuban tobacco 4
Vortigan Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 HOnestly, what i really want to see is what guys like Jonathan drew, Pepin, Pete Johnson, Padron's will be able to do with Cuban Tobacco leaf. I think they can give habanos a good run for their money if they can have easy access to cuban tobacco It's a mouthwatering concept!
JerseyG Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I agree that there will be more money to be made from the licensing of the product names. I can imagine a segue to branded coffees and everything else remotely associated with the lifestyles, real or imagined, of cigar smokers. The bottom line will be tax revenue. Tax revenue is the reason prohibition was repealed. And it will be capitalism, not democracy, that will change Cuban markets. If products are left to fend for themselves in the market, and they rarely are, supply and demand will have a natural impact on price. Countries protect there markets and products and I have no doubt the strategies around every conceivable scenario are currently being imagined in anticipation of the embargo being lifted.
cigcars Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 HOnestly, what i really want to see is what guys like Jonathan drew, Pepin, Pete Johnson, Padron's will be able to do with Cuban Tobacco leaf. I think they can give habanos a good run for their money if they can have easy access to cuban tobacco ***I guess I'll have to chop off my own hands to keep from going medieval on their ass if {Drew} resorts to that "infused" crap on fine Cuban tobacco 2
cigcars Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Does anyone know what the story will be with the two sets of duplicate brands once the Cubans enter the U.S. market? I am sure this is a dumb question, but hey, I am a canadianbeaver. Great point, Lisa and one I hadn't considered at all. Knowing American capitalism and its various tactics, I would guess they will probably put some kind of near indistinguishable while at the same time highly suggestive words or writing on their NC cigar bands to, upon brief glance, be passed off as possible CC Habanos bands. Just my 2 cents.
Professor Twain Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 HOnestly, what i really want to see is what guys like Jonathan drew, Pepin, Pete Johnson, Padron's will be able to do with Cuban Tobacco leaf. I think they can give habanos a good run for their money if they can have easy access to cuban tobacco That won't happen. Do the French sell Almaden their grapes?
Vortigan Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 ***I guess I'll have to chop off my own hands to keep from going medieval on their ass if {Drew} resorts to that "infused" crap on fine Cuban tobacco hmmm Java Mint....my first and last infused aberration - I can still taste it now! *retch 1
polarbear Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 That won't happen. Do the French sell Almaden their grapes? Bingo The first thing Tabbcacuba will do if the US market opens up is impose serious restrictions and penaltys on farmers selling to outside manufactures. With Davidoff having a decent presence in the market outside of the US I'm sure they've tried to purchase bales of Cuban Leaf in the past with no results
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