El Presidente Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 The review by Shrink of the HDM Piramide LE 2003 was spot on and certainly resonated with me. It was a glorious cigar when released with its rich creaminess and maintained that profile for 3 years until my boxes started diving in personal utilty. Good...but no longer great. It annoyed me no end because I compared each to the great I had experienced many times. There are boxes of cigars which age magnificently but there are no general rules. Point in fact. HDM Piramide and Des Dieux both utilise primarily high quality seco to achieve that creaminess. One wilted while the other powers on 10 years and more actually increasing in that cream trait. Why? I suspect it can only be an issue relating to the batch/batches of seco used in the production of the HDM Piramide LE. It just didn't have the legs. If that is indeed the case then it would not be a one off event. The lesson I learned is that if you are really enjoying a batch of cigars (say achieving a 93+ utility) there is a risk they will not reach 94/96. They actually may go backwards. Sample, Sample Sample. It is now the rule I follow. So yesterday I tried to think of other cigars in my collection that have gone the same way as the HDM Piramide. A box of 07 Monte 2. Brilliant and now less so. I miss the vibrant chocolate notes. It is now in my mind a good cigar. For those that have experienced some of the exceptional 08/9/10 boxes of Monte 2, and you enjoy that medium but rich choc/cocoa/dark coffee note, it may trasform in a few years into a smoother but less intense style. Which do you prefer? So this weekend. If you have a box of great cigars you have been ageing and you have achieved to date a specific profile from the ones yu have smoked over the years.....smoke one and report back. Is it continuing to improve? Has it peaked in your opinion/did you prefer it some time ago? Let us know the details of the box and the cigar. Your experiences.
Colt45 Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Point in fact. HDM Piramide and Des Dieux both utilise primarily high quality seco to achieve that creaminess. One wilted while the other powers on 10 years and more actually increasing in that cream trait. Why? I suspect it can only be an issue relating to the batch/batches of seco used in the production of the HDM Piramide LE. It just didn't have the legs. With these two, any thought on ring gauge / ratios of tobaccos used?
El Presidente Posted February 25, 2011 Author Posted February 25, 2011 With these two, any thought on ring gauge / ratios of tobaccos used? I wondered about that. Proportion of Seco is higher in the Dieux than the Piramide (higher % of Volado). The creaminess of the HDM Piramide upon release was outstanding. I am trying to recall another Piramide/gauge of the same flavour profile and how it aged. Stuggling.
cgarner Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I cracked open a box of Partagas Series D No 4 the other night that I had been resting since 1-25-10. Box Code GEA MAR 08. When I first received the box back in 2010 I found the cigars smokable and enjoyable but a bit bitter. I scored them around an 85. I gave some to friends as gifts and smoked a couple more and they all seemed to be around the 85 mark. But the one I picked the other night was absolutely fantastic. It was easily low 90. It would have been a 92 smoke but most (first 3/4) of the first third was still somewhat bitter, not bad at all but not as good as the second third and final third, IMHO. I will try another in a couple weeks and if they keep improving I will take a hand full down to my buddies wedding in late May. I don't see these cigars getting aged for 5 years. I was trying to hold out, since the video review gave them such high praises with 5 years of age, but man these things are quite good now.
joeypots Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 were there two releases of the Hoyo Pyrimid? I think I got a box of the second release and they never measured up to the first few I got in trade.
PigFish Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Interesting thread my friend but I believe in very few general rules with cigars. In time I have reduced most of what I have heard as wives tales now. I do believe in risk and odds. What does one save a box of cigars for if they smoke well now? Why smoke a lesser cigar, with the belief that a cigar can change in time, when one has a good cigar to smoke today? I realize this does not fit all moulds! Lastly, while a fun exercise, how does one judge the remaining stock from one cigar? Yeah, I know... same old trite argument. Perhaps I will smoke one of a box of '04 Cohiba Robustos and tell you that I still don't like them!!! -LOL Better yet... I could smoke a good cigar, one of the many that I smoke everyday, better spend my time and tell you how muck I still love those instead! Oh... and what does this tell you about cigars in general? The thin ones are the better ones! Cheers mate! -P
Dbone Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 So this weekend. If you have a box of great cigars you have been ageing and you have achieved to date a specific profile from the ones yu have smoked over the years.....smoke one and report back. Is it continuing to improve? Has it peaked in your opinion/did you prefer it some time ago? Let us know the details of the box and the cigar. Your experiences. Bolivar Petit Coronas, TEB MAR 08 This cab is nearing 3 years of age, I've put 2 years on it myself. It's really been a stellar box. The cab is somewhat in the back of my cabinet so it really doesn't get smoked from that often, just to much hassle to unload to get to it. My notes showed the last two years it has been quite sharp with flavor, with a heavy finish. The flavors are wonderful, I call it charred steak. Very meaty and plenty of coal flavor. Not one that will dry your mouth. Not very sweet. Plenty of thick leather in aroma, boot or jacket leather. I haven't touched this box most of the winter, but I did today for the assignment. Although this is just one sampling, I'd say the sharpness I remember and that's noted has fallen off, replaced with a HEAVY dose of cream. In fact after the initial warm-up, the cigar smoothed out quite a bit - had me somewhat perplexed. It is still a stellar smoke, but I have to admit to being a bit disappointed with the sharp flavors dialed down. Was this just a poor cigar, or something that'll be repeated throughout the rest? That'll have to be answered at another time.
LeafLover Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 Andy, a couple weeks ago I dug into one of my Boli PC's same box code as yours. Last I've one I had one from that box was in November which I remember was spectacular. Might have been just that cigar I smoked a couple weeks ago but I too remember smoking it and looking at the cigars a few times thinking, hmm. I remember thinking that the flavors were dialed down a notch. And, also noticed that the flavors didn't kick in until halfway through. Again, it might have just been that cigar. I don't think I can attribute it to storage conditions because they've been very consistent. I'll try one more from the box in the coming week to see how it goes. I'm thinking I should start taking some notes. I don't really like to be too cerebral about cigars, but it would be good to know how they are trending so I'm not smoking through the box hoping for nirvana went it's in a period when it's just not there.
Dbone Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Maybe we should do a trade of each others LOL You know another forum Im on, these guys are saying the '99's (Boli PC) are just coming around and smoking GREAT. Is this the same cigar, same blend from the same seeds? We're a far way from 12 years on our boxes, YIKES But yes - sounds like we're both in the same boat here.
El Presidente Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Bolivar Petit Coronas, TEB MAR 08 Cheers for that Dbone The reason I like this exercise is that in six months when you may have your next you have a gauge. You can see if it is an abberation or a trend. If you don't sample you don't know.
El Presidente Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Interesting thread my friend but I believe in very few general rules with cigars. In time I have reduced most of what I have heard as wives tales now.I do believe in risk and odds. What does one save a box of cigars for if they smoke well now? Why smoke a lesser cigar, with the belief that a cigar can change in time, when one has a good cigar to smoke today? I realize this does not fit all moulds! Lastly, while a fun exercise, how does one judge the remaining stock from one cigar? Yeah, I know... same old trite argument. Perhaps I will smoke one of a box of '04 Cohiba Robustos and tell you that I still don't like them!!! -LOL Better yet... I could smoke a good cigar, one of the many that I smoke everyday, better spend my time and tell you how muck I still love those instead! Oh... and what does this tell you about cigars in general? The thin ones are the better ones! Cheers mate! -P I don't disagree hermano. I think both of us tend to live for the moment. Laughter and enjoyment today is a bankable commodity in my eyes. I don't take futures in Laughter and Enjoyment. Have seen to many times with friends and family where the market has collapsed due to ill health or a change in circumstance.
prshah25 Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I have been aging a box of Cohiba 2001 piramides..they were excellent until last year...Smoked 2 last week and it seems to have lost its flavor...its just going downhill I believe..
khomeinist Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 At lot of this comes down to marca and vitola for me. Some marcas like Bolivar I enjoy fresh. Others like ERDM or Punch need time according to my taste. Diminishing returns? I will go on record saying that I am a little worried about the Trinidad Robo T. I now think that I should have gone through more of mine when they were fresh. I thought that they would age like Fundadores or Coloniales. After recent sampling, I am unsure. But who knows. I will keep checking to see if my boxes are just in a sick period.
edameff Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 Gee Thanks Prez, after I read this I charged into my humidor to grab my box of Hoyo LE Piramides 2003 and ran to the dock to smoke one...it was terrible. Bitter, harsh and very unbalanced. I am hoping that it is a very long "sick" period and will improve with more age, otherwise I will be using these for firewood.
CanuckSARTech Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 I have been aging a box of Cohiba 2001 piramides..they were excellent until last year...Smoked 2 last week and it seems to have lost its flavor...its just going downhill I believe.. Gee Thanks Prez, after I read this I charged into my humidor to grab my box of Hoyo LE Piramides 2003 and ran to the dock to smoke one...it was terrible. Bitter, harsh and very unbalanced. I am hoping that it is a very long "sick" period and will improve with more age, otherwise I will be using these for firewood. You gentlemen can feel free to send those up this way, if you'd like! More than enough room in my humidors for those!
aavkk Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Interesting thread Rob. Being 5 months into an 7 month trip has me a little concerned that I'm missing great window of opportunities on various cigars in my collection. When I do get back home I look forward to plenty of sampling and recalling previous experiences that have been mostly at least a year since enjoying.
jedipastor Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 This topic is the exact reason why I'd love to see FOH do more AGED cigar reviews! I just loved the reviews on the '01 CoLa and Fundadores, and the old PSD4 review. For example, if you want to review the 2010 PSP2, also grab one from 2005 or something. Smoke and review them back-to-back. I know that cigars can change so much year-to-year with crops, etc. But for someone like myself that is newer to Habanos, it would be nice to what to expect (or at least hope for) in general terms. It's tough for me personally to jump on boxes of different sticks when I don't know what I'm even hoping for long-term.
michael69 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 don't forget sick periods; the cohiba 2006 pyramide being a case in point, it's now smoking well. I'm hoping for similar with monte C (yes, they are better at the moment, and may be coming up further) last hoyo 2003 pyramide I had (original release) was superb....
Geo17pip Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Not sure if this is much help but it is interesting. Yesterday at the brewery I smoked a abr 03 Famosos. When i first got them, they were medium bodied and flavorful (coco, spice, coffee) At some point maybe in through the year they kind of lost it and weren't as good. Smoked my last one yesterday and man, almost no body. It was almost ultra light for me. There flavors weren't as strand either. Towards the end the flavors kicked up and i was getting (coco, nuts, fruit, candied apple) Really nice but not what I enjoy in a well aged cigar. Too light bodied for me.
joeypots Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 How about what the MD from Hong Kong calls the "first vacuum period"? Between first maturity and second maturity, pleasant flavors are missing. Any one have the experience of letting cigars that seem to be on the decline age wise get better after something like 15 years?
aes8 Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Great topic Rob as I have been wondering this for a while. The past conventional wisdom was that the longer you aged a cigar the better the flavors matured. I'm not saying this as truth, but I do believe that it was a widely held pratice. My question is do you think with the seed changes in 2000 and 2006, which produced a more ready to smoke cigar, has affected the aging charactheristics of cigars in general? I wasn't planning on breaking some boxes for another 10-15 years or so but this has got me wondering. Also wondering if those of you that are aging your own and seeing diminishing returns are storing them in air tight bags or vaccum pack them?
Montaigut Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Interesting thread my friend but I believe in very few general rules with cigars. In time I have reduced most of what I have heard as wives tales now.I do believe in risk and odds. What does one save a box of cigars for if they smoke well now? Why smoke a lesser cigar, with the belief that a cigar can change in time, when one has a good cigar to smoke today? I realize this does not fit all moulds! Lastly, while a fun exercise, how does one judge the remaining stock from one cigar? Yeah, I know... same old trite argument. Perhaps I will smoke one of a box of '04 Cohiba Robustos and tell you that I still don't like them!!! -LOL Better yet... I could smoke a good cigar, one of the many that I smoke everyday, better spend my time and tell you how muck I still love those instead! Oh... and what does this tell you about cigars in general? The thin ones are the better ones! Cheers mate! -P Un tien vaut mieux que deux tu l'auras... (Bird in hand...) I agree with Pigfish. CARPE DIEM!
LeafLover Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 Cracked open a DIC 09 Partagas 898V on Oct 2 and smoked the first one out of that box. Was good but not great. Now, April 2, I smoked the 2nd one out of the box. UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Savored every puff. You know the kind of savoring you do with a habano where you literally close your eyes, you look at the cigar between puffs, you are conscious of the feel of the habano in your fingers, you enjoy the feel of the foot of the cigar between your lips. you smell the aroma of the cigar in the air and you hope to smell that again. 6 months did wonders for this box.
headstand Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Just for clarification Rob, are you suggesting that cigars past their prime may drop significantly in overall quality, say from a 93 to and 80? Or are you thinking more along the lines of a drop to the high 80s. One of these scenarios I could live with, the other - shivers...
El Presidente Posted April 3, 2011 Author Posted April 3, 2011 Just for clarification Rob, are you suggesting that cigars past their prime may drop significantly in overall quality, say from a 93 to and 80? Or are you thinking more along the lines of a drop to the high 80s. One of these scenarios I could live with, the other - shivers... I suppose I am saying the elements that made it a 93 for you once, may not be there longterm. It may be a 95 cigar for someone else....but an 85 for you. The constant in reviews is how subjective taste is. One mans Cohiba is anothers Guantanamera. Never assume a cigar you are thoroughly enjoying will remain or improve upon that utility indefinately.
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