Van55 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I was chatting with tugboat in our local shop yesterday about our letters to Habanos s.a. It occurred to me that some visual evidence that HSA's competitors have entered into the slim gauge cigar arena here in the USA in a big way might be worthwhile. Don Pepin Fundadores: Padron: Davidoff: "New Arrival" They're selling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Lancero is quite tasty if you can find it. Unlike Lanceros, etc I've never had a plugged one either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanceSchmerr Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The Don Pepin Fundadore at the top is a masterpiece. Love that cigar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy2 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 They all taste like Dog Poo !! (except 64 Padron and VSG) had plenty of plugged small guaged DP and Tats too over the years way to many its a joke.. Was talking to a friend who owns a shop said the small ring gauge has slowed down in NY area only PC have been selling because its a short smoke and they have the best flavor with the smaller cigars ... Not me saying this so dont even jump on me for this one !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiJack Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 "New Arrival" Wow, that looks like Harry Carey. Are those Harry Carey cigars? That'd be sweeeeeet. They all taste like Dog Poo !! (except 64 Padron and VSG) Man I totally agree. Those two are consistently at least good. $ for $ an equally priced CC still blow them away tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuciusSulla Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I like the Pepin fundadores quite a bit and while I respect that each person has his or her own palate, have never had one that tastes like dog poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutusthebuckeye Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I like the Pepin fundadores quite a bit and while I respect that each person has his or her own palate, have never had one that tastes like dog poo. Yo,Yo,Yo...Lucius if Jimmy Dieux says it's poo than it's poo....Don Poopeen Garcia ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanceSchmerr Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I just smoked a Davidoff Lancero (2000? I have no idea of the vitola name) that I picked up in Vegas in May.....consistent Honey flavours with subtle Gingerbread tastes coming through in the middle third. Solid, if unspectacular. I'd give it an 88. Which is to say - not Dog Poo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think Jimmy has perhaps inadvertently raised a good point.....construction of the long skinnies. I still struggle far more than I should have to in order to locate a perfectly constructed box of long skinny Habanos. How many people have walked away from the long skinnies due simply to frustration? I know many who have and never returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanceSchmerr Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think Jimmy has perhaps inadvertently raised a good point.....construction of the long skinnies. I still struggle far more than I should have to in order to locate a perfectly constructed box of long skinny Habanos. How many people have walked away from the long skinnies due simply to frustration? I know many who have and never returned. I had a box of ERDM Grandes de Espana from a couple of years ago.....woefully underfilled. I liked the few that i had that were good, enough to want to try another box....but I agree that construction is perhaps the defining characteristic of a long skinny. For the record, the NC Lanceros that I've liked have been flawlessly constructed, only the flavour/taste has limited them. Once I give those Party Connies a try, and that Monte Especial has had a month to rest after it came in from Czar two weeks ago.....I will know better about the Habanos long skinnies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habanos2000 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think Jimmy has perhaps inadvertently raised a good point.....construction of the long skinnies. I still struggle far more than I should have to in order to locate a perfectly constructed box of long skinny Habanos. How many people have walked away from the long skinnies due simply to frustration? I know many who have and never returned. why would smaller ring gauge cigars be more susceptible to construction problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuciusSulla Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 why would smaller ring gauge cigars be more susceptible to construction problems? It takes a pretty skilled roller to pull them off properly, at least according to the cigar lore I've always heard. Roll too lose and they mush out and get too hot. Roll too tight and no draw. Pepin Blue Labels (which the fundadores shape is a part of) are rolled in Miami still by 12 rollers. His Nicaraguan tabacalera has around 100 rollers. Miami puts out around 800k sticks a year; Nicaragua around 3 million (at least back in 2008). This is to say the guy's best rollers do the blue label line. I've found them to be a tighter draw pretty akin to most Cuban lanceros I've had. As far as taste, that is obviously very personal, but I've found the construction of these guys to be very consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smll2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think Jimmy has perhaps inadvertently raised a good point.....construction of the long skinnies. I still struggle far more than I should have to in order to locate a perfectly constructed box of long skinny Habanos. How many people have walked away from the long skinnies due simply to frustration? I know many who have and never returned. I obtained a sampler of the Cohiba Lanceros and enjoyed them enough to order...a box of PSP CL's...or HQ....don't quite remember....I also had the chance to smoke some Monte Especials from the same sampler order. I enjoyed those to... jeez...if my new box of CL's are anything like my sampler pack I will be a happy dude. Somewhere I read the opposite...that the skinny minnies were less prone to problems....and easily delivered more flavor than the long fatties. I have found the long fatties to be somewhat limiting in flavor. All of my purchases have been of recent production... The CL's have been resting for a few weeks...so I haven't grabbed one yet. My experience with Cohibas....for whatever reason goes against the rest for 30 days argument. They seem to take longer...and are better after month's of resting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa1257 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 All Habanos suffered construction issues for a while, if those in the "Know" would simply think about the issue, it became more of an issue during the period that Habanoa s.a. was striving to increase production levels to around 200mm or more a year, I don't have my notes in front of me right now. Of course, they were not training the rollers for any length of time where as typically the thin ring gauge cigars and figurados were only rolled by level 9 rollers who had been taught how to roll these cigars for years. A new roller with a month or two of experience is placed where the thin ring gauge cigars are being rolled and it leads to draw, tight, plugged construction issues. This was really a sad period for H s.a., it is simply a fact that thick rg cigars are easier to roll for inexperienced rollers, yet even then they were screwing this up during the same period. Another issue is that inexperienced cigar smokers not knowing how to smoke a thin ring cigar. Those new smokers having watched others huffing and puffing away generally start "Hot Boxing" the thin ring cigar and they lose all the flavor. Thin ring cigars need to be smoked slowly not allowing the cigar to become too hot. Now when smoking a thicker ring cigar such as a Robusto, it sometimes needs to be smoked a touch more aggressively to keep it burning. So you combine new rollers with little amounts of experience together with new cigar smokers that want a "easy" cigar to smoke, and BAM, to have the direction that the Non-Cuban manufacturers "were" heading. With Tobacconists stocking so many SKU's of new and varied thin ring gauge cigars, it be obvious that they are selling. There is a demand for thin ring cigars, and it is clear that the Non-Cuban Manufacturers are soon going to be gaining market share because Habanos s.a. has lost sight of where the Heritage that built the love of the Cuban cigar around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yossie Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Anyway, Seeing cigar shop pics alway makes me confortable. I live in a rural area where is no big tobocco shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tandblov Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Dog poo or not, they are the competition. The US is a huge market, and the embargo is still in place. A vast MAJORITY of regular cigar smokers in the US smoke almost exclusively non-cuban cigars. So, if HSA see's the underground market in the US as a viable revenue stream (which rumour has it they do), they should pay attention to whats going on in the trends. As far as the editorial about the quality of the tastes of non-cuban cigars goes, well I must have horrible taste. I enjoy a few non-cuban's from time to time that do not taste like "Dog Poo". Of course, that belies the need to see the forest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think Jimmy has perhaps inadvertently raised a good point.....construction of the long skinnies. I still struggle far more than I should have to in order to locate a perfectly constructed box of long skinny Habanos. How many people have walked away from the long skinnies due simply to frustration? I know many who have and never returned. I had to return a box of Cohiba Lanceros just a few months ago. Every stick felt like a wooden dowel except one. The box I received back as a replacement has been perfect. It's not the tobacco but the hands that roll it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocoins Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I agree that there is an appreciable demand for thin ring gauge cigars in the U.S. However, even among those who prefer thin cigars, I doubt that there ever will be a preference for thin non-Cuban cigars over Cuban cigars generally. I think if HSA finds that thin cigars are sufficiently profitable within the rest of their portfolio, they will make them. But if HSA don't need many of them in order to hit their targets, then I don't think they will. I hate to say it, but unless things improve among non-Cuban manufacturers, I will be smoking many more corona gordas and torpedos in the future because ultimately, I will choose on the basis of taste rather than vitola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 It's too bad that some have either missed my point or have chosen to take this thread in a different direction than I hoped. The point is that there is a significant and growing market in the USA for thin gauge cigars. If HSA is discontinuing the Serie du Connoisseur line and the La Gloria Medaille D'Or (for example) because it perceives that there's no market for the vitolas, then the photographic evidence in my first post might change that perception, and (it is to be hoped) change the determination to quit producing some of the best tasting, most satisfying cigars in its catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 On the other subtopic that has emerged here -- if anyone really thinks Cubatobaco's construction inconsistency issues are confined to the long skinnies, I have a slew of plugged Churchills, Double Coronas and other fatties that will prove them wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfoster Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I've had a few plugged robustos too so it's not confined to skinnies OR fatties. I've never had a plugged NC (knock wood). FWIW, I am a noob to the whole cigar world (as I've stated several times) but I do prefer the smaller ring gauges. I prefer the smaller vitolas in general (time constraints) and I think the thinner ring gauges tend to be richer in flavor. I wonder if that's because they have a smaller percentage of filler and binder? (honestly don't know here, wondering...) -- Gary F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbrown Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I wish all the thin ringers were as well constructed as the LGC's from Partagas Factory in 02. Never had a plugged one. Cant say that about recent production unfortunately. It has pushed me away from these recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocoins Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 It's too bad that some have either missed my point or have chosen to take this thread in a different direction than I hoped.The point is that there is a significant and growing market in the USA for thin gauge cigars. If HSA is discontinuing the Serie du Connoisseur line and the La Gloria Medaille D'Or (for example) because it perceives that there's no market for the vitolas, then the photographic evidence in my first post might change that perception, and (it is to be hoped) change the determination to quit producing some of the best tasting, most satisfying cigars in its catalog. I was talking about this with a B&M owner last weekend while buying long skinnies from several manufacturers. He lamented that many guys won't buy the long skinnies because they're not a "man's cigar," whatever that is, and he responds by telling them that they are missing the point. Guys of the sort mentioned by the store owner are a big part of the problem -- if HSA is paring its lines in preparation for entry into the US market, there will thousands just like them hopping on back on the cigar bandwagon if/when the embargo is lifted. These smokers like what they think looks impressive to others and strokes their ego, and they are the same smokers who crested the 2000-2001 boom. There is definitely a market for long skinnies in the US, and I think the trend is increasing. If HSA recognizes what is happening in the US, I truly hope that they do not delete the Serie du Connoisseur line (and save/revive others), because the smaller ring gauges are my favorites for the reasons Van mentioned. Even though there is a market, is it big enough for HSA to care about? I'd like to see comparative sales figures, if any are available. I wish I could be more optimistic, but with the way those jawbreaker LEs and REs sell, I fear that HSA may just put its eggs in that basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 FWIW, I am a noob to the whole cigar world (as I've stated several times) but I do prefer the smaller ring gauges. I prefer the smaller vitolas in general (time constraints) and I think the thinner ring gauges tend to be richer in flavor. I wonder if that's because they have a smaller percentage of filler and binder? (honestly don't know here, wondering...) Gary, here a couple of links to threads in the Classic Posts section which may help shed a little light on the subject. Obviously, it might not be the case for all producers, but it's a good guideline: Link1 Link2 Please note that photos are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 It's too bad that some have either missed my point or have chosen to take this thread in a different direction than I hoped.The point is that there is a significant and growing market in the USA for thin gauge cigars. If HSA is discontinuing the Serie du Connoisseur line and the La Gloria Medaille D'Or (for example) because it perceives that there's no market for the vitolas, then the photographic evidence in my first post might change that perception, and (it is to be hoped) change the determination to quit producing some of the best tasting, most satisfying cigars in its catalog. This is exactly the point that I was making in my letter. H SA is lost! It is no longer the leader of markets but the follower of the expatriated owners. I agree with your point Van. In search of new markets the "other" manufacturers will produce these vitolas, it is only a matter of time. "Their" marketing will push the "slender ring cigar effect;" a more pungent, yet refined and complex smoke, and they will make headway as the "new thing." Like skirt lengths, cigar vitola popularity will change! Look... I am 250ish and I look totally silly smoking a Lanceros, a Monte Esp. or Grandes de Espana! But sporting my goatee, dew rag and a tank top you might say I am more interested in what I am smoking than impressing the cougars at the cantina! I am not saying that if you don't like slender ring cigars you have no taste, but I am saying that there has been a long standing trend for the more experienced CC smoker gravitating to the Cuban medium and thin ring cigars as a matter of taste. Most of us have made the discovery independently... it is not an anti-establishment movement. Many of us see the same things in these cigars, right or wrong, some of us see a distinction between the thin and thick cigar beyond its ocular obviousness. - Piggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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