Does gun control work?

[rudder]

Australian Gun Law Update 09

Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts

From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia

Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the now available data from Down Under. It has now been one year (12 months) since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now available: Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent; Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent); In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent as compared with the last one year period when private ownership of a firearm was legal.(NB: the law-abiding citizens did turn in their personal firearms, the criminal element did not and thus criminals in Australia still possess their guns.) While data for the 25 years preceding the confiscation of privately owned guns showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months as criminals now are assured their victims will be unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the

elderly, while the resident is at home. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns. This story of well intentioned government intervention in the rights of lawful individuals to own and possess firearms won't be seen in the mainstream US media or on the American evening news. Presidend Obama who advocates a similar confiscation in the US will not be reporting any of this to you. The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honestcitizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only

the law-abiding citizens.

[Colt45]

Position, grip, sight alignment, breath control, trigger squeeze, follow through.

Works every time.

[rudder]

Position, grip, sight alignment, breath control, trigger squeeze, follow through.

Works every time.

We're talking about guns here.

[Tampa1257]

I believe in gun control.

That is why I go to the range as often as possible.

[zuma]

Don't believe every single email that you receive... if you do, I am a Nigerian banker and I have a deal that will make you rich!

Various forms of that email have been making the rounds for quite some time (see it says update 09, yet the text claims 12 months since enactment)

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Yeah and I believe in gun control...

[Colt45]

I'm sure our resident Aussie gun fanatic Ken Gargett will chime in.

[android]

Controlled short burst always worked well for me...but if they have gotten through the perimeter the 45cal. is nice for close range work

[Jakester]

I'm with Colt, Miami and Android on this and have always viewed "gun control" as hitting my target.

[b0rderman]

that snopes article does a good bit of statistical wrangling as well...I am not really sure what this means:

"the proportion of armed robberies involving firearms has actually decreased over the last 7 years"

What does that really mean? Like Snopes themselves said, the proportion could go down but the actual number could go up if the total number of armed robberies increased...

Either way I feel bad for polls and statistics, everyone is their friend one day and their enemy the next.

[Shelby07]

Screw statistics. They can be made to say anything.

Here's what I know for sure... if I wake up in the middle of the night to find an uninvited guest in my home, he's gonna leave pretty quickly as soon as I put a couple of rounds in the floor and yell "get out" even if I'm in another room.

It happened to me when I lived in Florida. And it must have left an impression because he apparently decided never to come back. Don't know what would have happened if I didn't have a gun in the house.

[BlackFriar]

Nothing quite like the sound of a 12 gauge round being chambered in a pump action to tell an intruder, "Get Out."

[tugboat]

Gun control is knowing when you’re to close for missiles.

[Ken Gargett]

what a crock of crap.

if this bloke even exists, which i suspect is highly unlikely (i'd be very surprised if this wasn't simply concocted propaganda from morons promoting the use of guns - and yes, i know i am out of step on this issue with much of the forum but may i suggest that you do not insult me by wasting your time trying to convince me of the eror of my ways and i will try and do the same), we start with the bizarre statement that in 09, we are one year on. any cop in australia would know what a load this is. it happened many years ago. i really didn't see the point of reading much further.

and yes, i know i am banned from mentioning the idiocy of guns etc on the forum but, as we used to say in the playground, i didn't start it.

[El Presidente]

Classic Colt.....Classic

For the record, the original tanscript is false. Gun laws and gun buyback commenced in 1996.

Statistics can always be played with. One can't : 18 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre there were 13 mass shootings and in the 13 years since 1996 there have been none.

Looking at pure stats Gun Deaths in Australia have plummeted sine 1996. The majority of gun deaths prior to 1996 was "Suicide". There is no way to tell whether since 1996 those who would have entertained Gun Suicide merely went to another method.

As a lad who grew up with guns/hunting I do yearn for the old days. I feel the taking away of my weapons was another brick in the wall of a homogeous society and abrogation of personal responsibility through government control. I was vehemently opposed to gun control in 1996

Fast forward 13 years and I have changed my mind. I can still hunt as a licensed shooter. I can't purchase automatic, semi automatic or Assault firearms. As a hunter I don't need to.

In balance (and in my opinion) we have a safer society. It is nice to pick up a paper any given day and not see that some drunk bastard has come home, argued with the wife and blown her away.

Firearms should be a privellege earned over time and not a right. Too many morons in this country ruined it for the rest.

I'm sure our resident Aussie gun fanatic Ken Gargett will chime in.

[zuma]

Firearms should be a privellege earned over time and not a right. Too many morons in this country ruined it for the rest.

Wholeheartedly agree... that is what gun control is all about...

[Trevor2118]

I have always wondered.....

........If you want to shoot an anoying mime artist...........do you use a silencer?

[sinnyc]

I can still hunt as a licensed shooter. I can't purchase automatic, semi automatic or Assault firearms. As a hunter I don't need to.

Firearms should be a privellege earned over time and not a right. Too many morons in this country ruined it for the rest.

Well said and I agree completely.

Of course, until such time as a similar law takes effect here in the US, I have 3 shotguns; a 12 break, a 12 semi, and a sawed-off 12 pump as well as 3 handguns; a full frame .45, a compact .40, and a .22

- Tim

[tugboat]

You may not like guns, and choose not to own one. That is your right. You might not believe in

God. That is your choice. However, if someone breaks into your home the first two things youre

going to do are: 1) Call someone with a gun. 2) Pray they get there in time.

"The reason I carry a gun is because a Cop it too heavy"

"This store only carries $20 worth of ammo..."

[Ken Gargett]

You may not like guns, and choose not to own one. That is your right. You might not believe in

God. That is your choice. However, if someone breaks into your home the first two things youre

going to do are: 1) Call someone with a gun. 2) Pray they get there in time.

"The reason I carry a gun is because a Cop it too heavy"

"This store only carries $20 worth of ammo..."

okay, rob, i know i am not supposed to comment and i promise not even to look at this thread again but i have to say, i find those sort of mindnumbingly stupid platitudes so banal that i am - almost - speechless.

i accept that there are some responsible people, and quite possibly/probably the majority of the pro-gun people on this forum, that will treat guns as they should be and act accordingly. sadly, there are truckloads out there who are not. it really doesn't take much intelligence to be able to pull a trigger.

i promise - last word from me.

[Ken Gargett]

ps - nothing personal

[rudder]

I had a friend of mine foward this. If it is real, my hats off to the guy that posted it. If not real, it is still funny.

---, 7:53 PM

Posted to Craig's List Personals:

To the Guy Who Tried to Mug Me in Downtown Savannah night before last. Date: 2009-03-23, 3:43 A M EST. I was the guy with the black Burberry jacket that you demanded I hand over, shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I hope you somehow come across this message.

I'd like to apologize. I didn't expect you to crap in your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket. It was not cold, but I was wearing the jacket for a reason that evening. My girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber Model 1911 .45 A CP pistol for Christmas, and we picked up a shoulder holster for it that evening. It's a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head, isn't it? I know it probably wasn't fun walking back to wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge flopping about in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse since you left your shoes, cellphone, and wallet with me. I didn't want your buddies to come help you try to mug us again.

I called your mother, or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, and explained your situation. I bought myself and four other people in the gas station a tank full of gas on your credit card. The guy with the big motor home took 150 gallons and was extremely grateful! I gave your shoes to a homeless guy over by Vinnie Van Go Go's, along with the cash in your wallet. I threw the wallet in a pink "pimp mobile" parked at the curb after I broke the windshield and side window out and keyed the driver side.

I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell phone. Ma Bell just shut down the line, and I've only had the phone for a little over a day now, so I don't know what's going on with that. I got in two threatening phone calls to the DA's office and one to the FBI with it. The FBI guy was really pissed and we had a long chat (I guess while he traced the number). I'd like to apologize for not killing you, and instead making you walk back home humiliated. I hope you'll reconsider your choice of path in life. Next time you might not be so lucky. - Alex P.S. Remember this motto...an armed society is a polite society!

[zuma]

Allegedly, identical incidents have been reported in:

* Savannah, Georgia

* Asheville, North Carolina

* Las Vegas, Nevada

* Dallas, Texas

* Austin, Texas

* Knoxville, likely Tennessee, but state unspecified

* Georgetown, state unspecified

* Glasgow, Scotland (Glasgow Central Station)

Again those snopes guys spoil everything , they must be commies...

Oh... but this one about the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act looks like for real... unfortunately, it may not please gun aficionados

[Smooth]

While the firearms buy back and relevant legislation here did take many guns away, they mainly took them from more responsible users (including my father).

There is no getting around the fact it is still VERY EASY for some idiot to get his hands on a gun if he really wants to. And there lies the actual problem as Rob and others have hinted too: Its not the guns, its the people who hold them. No Amount of legislation etc will ever stop an idiot getting a gun if he wants one.

IMO, the more you tighten gun control, the more you take them out of the hands of sensible owners and the greater the advantage to idiot petty criminals who abuse weapons attained through black markets in their crimes.

[Habanos2000]

While the firearms buy back and relevant legislation here did take many guns away, they mainly took them from more responsible users (including my father).

There is no getting around the fact it is still VERY EASY for some idiot to get his hands on a gun if he really wants to. And there lies the actual problem as Rob and others have hinted too: Its not the guns, its the people who hold them. No Amount of legislation etc will ever stop an idiot getting a gun if he wants one.

IMO, the more you tighten gun control, the more you take them out of the hands of sensible owners and the greater the advantage to idiot petty criminals who abuse weapons attained through black markets in their crimes.

I agree with your comments 100%. When do criminals pay attention to the law?

[Guest RobertU]

Firearms should be a privellege earned over time and not a right. Too many morons in this country ruined it for the rest.

Unfortunately, that last sentence seems to apply to almost everything, in quite a few countries! Makes me think maybe education is the answer or something. I mean, if we can eliminate the "morons" part, then it seems like that would be a big step forward.

As for gun control, I'm torn. I've been around them all my life and know that decent people have legit uses for them. I also know that decent people often do stupid things, like lose their jobs, get hammered, come home and shoot their wife and kids...or get dumped and stalk their ex with a shotgun until the police come and shoot them...or sit in a dorm room pining until they take their own lives. Unfortunately I knew people who fit those last two descriptions. I also know that not-so-decent people find lots of illegit uses for guns that harm the decent people.

While Australia's stats seem to show that a stronger gun control worked, I'm just not 100% convinced that taking guns away from the law abiding people makes society safer. My guess is that it stops many suicides, and potentially some domestic homicides, which are reflected in Rob's stats. It may even stop some mass shootings, but if someone is really bent on killing a bunch of people, they'll find a way. On the other hand, gun control probably also adds to an air of fear for many, feeling that they have to play by a stricter set of rules than the criminals. And not having a gun in certain areas of the US certainly would make you much less safe.

Not sure what the answer is...maybe better education and better opportunities for the average person so there are fewer incentives to commit crimes in the first place. That, combined with reasonable restrictions, would seem to be a good step forward. It won't eliminate the issues, or the morons, but we're talking about statistics not absolutes, and even a small % decrease can have a big real-world effect. A good economy and good opportunities tend to lower the crime rates. (And, BTW, I have not heard, and do not think we will ever hear, Obama say he wants to take all our guns away. That kind of inflammatory rhetoric only helps gun control advocates in the long run, as it makes gun rights advocates seem a little loopy!)