Ken Gargett Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 And, oh yeah... I never read CA. have to say that i thoroughly enjoy CA. in reality, it is about 10 to 15% cigars and the rest is boys toys and sport and a range of things i find of interest. don't always agree with them but a lot of the articles are well researched and well written, certainly in comparison to a lot of the crap that is out there. it is th eonly real window i have on non cubans, though they are of minor interest to me, and always interesting to get a perspective, even if it is a different perspective, on cuba and cubans.
IceChant Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Until sometime ago the ILS per US Dollar was low so I bought mostly NC, I got to like them. Some got very interesting and different flavor profile that I do like and there are few families that been mentioned around that make great cigars. I think the cheapest NC I like is Maxx by Alec Bradley I like the Ego (9.25"X50), simple but I like the flavors. The last 6"X60 I still smoke is Camacho's Triple Maduro for the rest I stopped smoking higher than 52 ringed cigars.
laficion Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Just like French wine is the best wine overall because of the soil in France they are just far superior to any other wines overall consistently year after year. I have to say that there are a lot of good wines out there, Italy, Spain, Australia, etc, etc. BUT, If you insist, your right Jimmy, I don't want to be a disgrace to my country. However, I do love some wines that are coming out of Oregon in the USA, good stuff .
kilroy Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 have to say that i thoroughly enjoy CA. in reality, it is about 10 to 15% cigars and the rest is boys toys and sport and a range of things i find of interest. don't always agree with them but a lot of the articles are well researched and well written, certainly in comparison to a lot of the crap that is out there. it is th eonly real window i have on non cubans, though they are of minor interest to me, and always interesting to get a perspective, even if it is a different perspective, on cuba and cubans. I agree with Ken. Its nice to see the inflated scores in the back and the rest of the mag filled with the toys. And you aren't missing anything in the non cuban world. I shared a couple Oliva Serie V a couple weeks back with a friend of mine and we weren't impressed in the least. The opening draw was glorious and full of flavor and then it tried to build but went no where instead. As far as NCs in my humidor go the only ones I keep in my singles tray are a couple VSGs, a couple Padron '64, '28 and a few La Flor Dominicana. I like the LFDs in only that every once in a while I like a cigar that's even stronger than a Partagas. The rest I actually keep as give aways to friends and silly golf bets I lose (which I dont lose very often!).
Stalebread Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 fact opinion opinion fact It's interesting (and sometimes a bit frustrating) when the boundary between the two gets so porous.
Shelby07 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 fact opinion opinion factIt's interesting (and sometimes a bit frustrating) when the boundary between the two gets so porous. Fact: Truer words were never written. Opinion: You just gotta take a deep breath and roll with it.
smk819 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 I still enjoy a Padron now and then, and also some inexpensive Fuentes for the golf course. I really prefer the cigars made by the Caribbean Commies. At the moment I don't have any NCs in my stash.
Van55 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 fact opinion opinion factIt's interesting (and sometimes a bit frustrating) when the boundary between the two gets so porous. You mean you prefer that fact not become conflated with opinion? I love that word -- conflate. con⋅flate –verb (used with object), -flat⋅ed, -flat⋅ing. to fuse into one entity; merge: to conflate dissenting voices into one protest.
sinnyc Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 I have been smoking 20 +years and i know what i like CC they are the best most complex cigars period.Not to say that NC are not good but hell they are boring and will never ever be as complex as CC's its all about the soil in Cuba. You have CC and than there is NC lets leave it at that.... If i come across like i am bashing NC i am not i am just a CC snob. Just like French wine is the best wine overall because of the soil in France they are just far superior to any other wines overall consistently year after year. Taste is subjective and that is for certain. To say, however, that NC's "are boring and will never be as complex as CC's" and that CC's "are the most complex cigars period" are absolute statements that beg to be argued and so I thought I'd pick up the gauntlet. What about blends from different countries - South America, the Far East, Africa? What about different wrappers- Cameroon, Maduro, etc.? There are so many things that the Cuban cigar industry either doesn't do well or offer at all that if one chose to play Devil's Advocate, one could make the argument that Cuban cigars are in fact products severely limited in variation in that they are restricted to only what comes from the island itself. I don't think this personally, I'm just pointing out that the coin has two sides. The response to that argument would be the same as would be made for Bordeaux or Champagne wines, St. James Parish Perique tobacco, Bourbon whiskey, Chicago hot dogs, or even New York bagels. Namely, that the place of origin is part and parcel of the product. For example, an outstanding California red wine is not and will never be a Bordeaux - only wines that are produced in that region of France can carry a Bordeaux Appellation d'origine contrôlée. Does that mean that the Bordeaux is better than the California red? Ahhhh, well that's the trick isn't it? How do you determine which is "better"? I've taken part in several blind taste tests of cigars (no bands, all cigars pre-cut, some NC, some CC) and I was very surprised by the results. Some brands I thought I loved got very poor marks ( for example, I hated an Ashton VSG I smoked blind but always rated it highly when I smoked it with the band on), some I wouldn't have thought of trying got high marks (for example, I quite enjoyed an Upmann Naturale even though I previously used to think I didn't care for the marca). Blind tests with other products such as wine and liquor that have similarities to cigars (country of origin/terroirs, manufacturing process/expertise, etc) have yielded similarly surprising results. Here's one on vodka that the NY Times ran in 2005. Out of 21 mostly super-premium vodkas were tested, Smirnoff turned out to be the winner. And you can find any number of blind tests that disagree with your statement that "French wine is the best wine overall because of the soil in France they are just far superior to any other wines overall consistently year after year." So, what to do? Well, there is no answer here. You prefer Cubans and that is fine. (For the record, I tend to prefer them as well.) But I think you should participate in a blind test, not to prove you are "right" or "wrong", but to experience a variety of cigars without preconception of prejudice. The tests are a ton of fun and I guarantee that you'll surprise yourself. Who knows? You might discover something NC you like Don't get me wrong: I love Cuban cigars (particularly SLR's, VR's, LGC's, Monte's, and Partagas) as about half of the 1500 or so sticks in my humidors will attest. But to more or less state that there is nothing worth smoking in the whole world of cigars made outside of Cuba is, I think, closed-minded and naive. I point this out because I was challenged on my own, similar beliefs and ended up getting fairly well humbled when I saw the results upon reading my own tasting notes when the actual cigar I smoked was revealed. Taste is subjective - there is no "best". Best of luck, - Tim
stargazer14 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Weeeeell. I guess thats the end of this thread. Nice read Tim, couldn't have said it better myself. Now I look forward to hearing back from Yossi after he goes thru a few more of those NC sticks.
Jimmy2 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Cubans are the best its all about the soil period. No NC don't suck just not as much flavor as Cubans and get boring after a while for me and many who are Cuban cigar lovers.Dont see what the problem is here its my thoughts and I respect yours as you should mine. VSG and Padron 64's are the only ones I will smoke once in a blue moon. Many of my Friends who own Major NC Cigars companies agree with me and have stated Cuban tobacco is the BEST in the world !! Will not get into who I know and who have stated this as they have cigars to sell on the NC market. 20+ years of smoking cigars and I think I know what's better or have an idea. I hate Cameroon, Maduro cigars and don't even like the Maduro Cohiba's and think it was a bad idea for Cuba to make this line. French wines are the best . Super Tuscany are some of the best wines. Cali wines are overrated some good years but mostly overrated. Australia makes the best Shiraz in the world. I have drank some of the best wines in the world as i have some very generous friends that have extremely large $$$$$ collection. Yes I have been spoiled and thank them every time I see them for giving me the chance to drink some Gems in the wine world. Now can we move on..
KB24 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 20+ years of smoking cigars and i think i know whats better or have an idea. What's better to you or in your opinion might not be the case for the next person. I appreciate your opinion, but think we all need to keep that in mind. No offense intended Jimmy. -Patrick p.s. Just bought a case of Swisher Sweet Wood Tips. Think they got great aging potential.
Jimmy2 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 That's just it some people cant take other peoples views if they don't agree with them and take it the wrong way. Like I stated above I respect other people thoughts (views) so no problem on my side maybe they have some on there side and should look at themselves. Most people who have met me here know i am a sweet as sugar in person.
stargazer14 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 p.s. Just bought a case of Swisher Sweet Wood Tips. Think they got great aging potential. Patrick, I found a pouch of Backwoods cigars that had fallen into a hard-to-reach spot in my boat, after 2 or 3 years the things had really come around!
shortsqueeze Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Just like French wine is the best wine overall because of the soil in France they are just far superior to any other wines overall consistently year after year. Wow, that's a heck of a statement! Especially the consistency part. I think the Italians make some pretty darn good wine, not to mention many, many other countries including the US that compete with the French at the highest levels. Yes, the French (kind of a broad category) make some excellent wines, and some lousy ones, but it's got a heck of a lot more to do with it than just the soil.
KB24 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Most people who have met me here know i am a sweet as sugar in person. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHH Jimmy, the fact that you just referred to yourself as sweet as sugar is by far the best thing I have ever read on this forum. That's awesome. Have a nice evening.
Jimmy2 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 I stated Italy makes some good wine I guess your only read some of my posts. KB I am glad you found that funny that's why we are here to have a good time.
sinnyc Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Jimmy, I wasn't questioning your taste or your preferences. I just wanted to illustrate that there are a lot of choices out there and that just because you have found Product A to be superior to Product B that doesn't make it an incontrovertible fact. It's just your opinion and it may be different from mine. When you say, "I believe Cuban cigars are the best in the world", that's your personal view and that's great - I'm glad you have found your favorites. But when you say, "Cuban cigars are the best in the world", you are declaring this to be fact, and that simply isn't the case. There is no "best cigar in the world" - there are only your favorites, and mine, and everybody else's. Taste is subjective. My intent was not to offend and if I did, I offer my apologies. - Tim
Jimmy2 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Cuban cigars are the best in the world and i stand by that and i think most here and abroad agree. That does not mean people dont enjoy NC too it all comes down to personal taste. No offense taken just having a friendly debate as i see us all here as friends.
KB24 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Everyone leave Jimmy alone because he is as "sweet as sugar!"
shortsqueeze Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Jimmy, I challenge you to a blind taste test. I will send you cigars banded only with a number, you smoke them and then post your results here publicly (FOH). First and foremost, you will have to identify the cigars as either Cuban or N/C, along with some other criteria. I will send Rob (if he agrees) or some other neutral party the primer to keep this fair. Do you accept? Josh
Ginseng Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Oooohhh. Another blind taste test. Do it, Jimmy. Do it! Wilkey
Jimmy2 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 YES I WILL .... Dont send me no machine made Cubans or cheaper ones.. Also no please no Cameroon, Maduro cigars yuck and please dont base the CC in some funky substance to throw me off You see the plan here will be for shortsqueeze to send me Cubans but to send me NC that look like Cubans and taste like them. But i will show you non believers that i am right and it can't be done they dont call me Jimmy Cubano for nothing. And if i am tricked i will admit i am wrong and will bow down to the NC smokers. Also i have seen these tests on other forums but those people doing it were not me and i know alot of them failed. I smoke 5 to 6 CC a day for the last 5 years until 3 months ago where i cut it down to 2 to 3 a day i know my CC.. Bring it..
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