Havana News July 08

[bassman]

Damn! The 06 7 07 Bolivar CEs are some of the best recent cigars made. I have plenty, but might need to get another cab just to be safe.

[Colt45]

» For a group trying to emulate the great watch brands (Rolex) or

» Champagne houses (Dom Perignon)

Yet their actions speak more of invicta and cold duck.......

[tigger]

» Coronas Extra

» Monarcas

» Super Seleccion No 1

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Rob, I'm really looking forward to your after-trip post in 2015 when you announce that there will be one (and only one) cigar sold in 2016 - the 78 rg Coeeba Volado Mundo Edicion Muy Limitada Gigundo....

Edited to add:

Oh, and "Montecristo Open" reeks of poorly executed marketing strategy. Sometimes that works though.

[tigger]

» » For a group trying to emulate the great watch brands (Rolex) or

» » Champagne houses (Dom Perignon)

»

» Yet their actions speak more of invicta and cold duck.......

[brian1]

From another board:

"It is to provide a milder blend than the original line but allegedly keep the integrity of the flavour profile. To be sold predominantly in Duty Free. Proposed sizes include:

Monaco 54x150

Master 50x124

Albatross 46x135 (a piramide)

Swing 38x110"

Have they lost their mind a Montecristo Swing!!!! Rob, maybe you accidentally went into the US Domestic Cigar strategy meeting.

:rotfl:

[mrcoin]

» » What in the hell is "Open" supposed to mean or connote?

»

» Maintains the Sport theme (Golf) I assume. It is still idiotic.

Yes, I can see it now: "Sir, would you like a Par, Birdie, Eagle, Bogie or Double Bogie?, Or maybe the Bunker, for that dry sandy taste.

LOL

[northo]

» From another board:

»

» "It is to provide a milder blend than the original line...

I think I said on CA, but all of the stuff I wrote was actually from here first (from this post and another one). Hope no-one minds the democratization of information.

[northo]

Surely these new Montecristo Opens would just be like having another new marca in the Habanos portfolio? The taste will be, to one degree or another, different from regular Montecristos.

That it makes use of the brand recognition of a previously existing marca is neither here nor there. Presumeably they are only doing this because some of the other newer marcas (I'm thinking particularly Vegueros) have been design and marketing disasters. Incorporating the Montecristo brand into the new marca will make it much more likely to succeed.

To the accusation that many seem to be making that it will cheapen the Montecristo brand I would say this: If Habanos make sure that the quality of these new cigars is up to scratch, as well as maintaining the quality of original montes (and there is no reason to suppose they can't), then how will the brand be cheapened. Nobody regards the Tatuaje brand to be cheapened by the existence of Red-Label Tats, it happens all over the NC cigar industry. After getting over the initial shock of change, I'm confident people will judge these new montes on their own merit.

p.s. I don't work for Habanos, just love my montecristos and want more.

[Colt45]

» Nobody regards the Tatuaje brand to be cheapened by the existence of Red-Label Tats,

» it happens all over the NC cigar industry.

My argument here would be that a brand like Tatuaje is but a twinkle in the eye when compared to

the historical significance of the Cuban Montecristo - they really have little to lose.

And it is true that HSA does seem to be following the trends of the NC industry - Cohiba Maduro,

Montecristo Sport / Open....

There's nothing wrong with well thought out advancement or change, but again, I feel Habanos would

do well to concentrate on the quality of the cigars they are now producing....

[tigger]

» I've said this before, but I'll babble on again - I'd love to see the

» production of Cuban cigars opened up

» to competition. It'd be nice to see companies whose primary focus would

» simply be the production of

» great cigars.

What are you, some kind of Communist?!? :-P

[Tampa1257]

Moving ahead with the Montecristo "Open" reduced taste and reduced flavor "Lite" Montecristos may be initially heading to the Duty Free markets, but in my opinion, this is a Gateway Habano for entry into the US Market. It is the perception of the Spanish (Altadis or now Imperial) that the large US Market:

A: Does NOT Enjoy Full Flavor cigars (Note the amount of large ring cigars that are mild to medium strength and mild to medium flavor i.e.; Cohiba Siglo VI & Montecristo Edmundo) these cigars are a direct trend following the Non-Cuban trend of large ring gauge cigars. The gross number of sales of these vitolas is what the Cubans are making decisions upon for new cigars and what they are discontinuing.

B: The "Open" name which Rob has described as having an appeal of a Golf Outing is just a spin off of the initial "Sport" name. This is HSA's basically the Spanish ******* Market Wizards idea that smoking cigars is for the active and upper lifestyle consumers. Around the world, Golf has the perception of being only for the higher income individuals, sort of the "Elite". This has 2 functions. One is that they can raise the price of the cigars they sell and increase profits. Two, is that they do not have to sell as many cigars to make the same or even more profit. They feel that they would rather sell less and make more profits than consider their current consumers needs or wants. Imperial is going to be making some substantial changes in what is happening with Habanos S.A., not all of which are going to be good for the Habano Consumer in my opinion.

C: Imperial/HSA is going to trim down the number of vitolas in each marca because everything is number driven. If the vitola does not meet certain sales quotas, then it is on the chopping block. It is ABB, All Bout Business; their philosophy is now “**** em” let them pay through the nose, on only what we want to sell. And it better sell a lot!!! They have shown the entire cigar smoking world that they do NOT care about their Customers. They have shown that they are Greedy and strictly care only about the CUC, Dollar, Euro or whatever currency they do their accounting by. All they care about is “Show Me the Money”, gone is the rich Heritage of Cuban Cigar Manufacturing, it is only about the money. Sad, sad, sad state of affairs.

D: The new Montecristo “Open” is a entry level cigar, strictly for new cigar smokers and directly intended for the female market. It is my belief that Imperial intends to roll these out for the US Market as soon as possible. They foresee the Embargo not lasting much longer and want to expand rapidly into the American Market.

[Colt45]

» What are you, some kind of Communist?!? :-P

If by communist you mean someone who'd like to see one or more privateers come in and produce

great cigars at a reasonable price with little fanfare, then yes, I am a communist. :-D

[Grasso]

Then they'd better start training new rollers now, while making sure to not repeat the '98-'01 production problems.

Then again, the way things seem to be going, they'll probably just maintain current production levels and jack the price sky-high for all of us greedy Americans if the embargo ever ends.

[perfectform]

If the U.S. market opened up to Habanos, would they truly be able to handle and properly increase production to serve possibly their new biggest customer? I don't know...it seems quality would decrease while production increased...at least for a while anyway...

[toasterhead]

» Discontinued Cigars

» This is the list of cigars proposed to be discontinued at end 2009.

» Again..it is not final but as an analogy....they are on the gallows, noose

» around the neck and awaiting a final plea.

»

» Bolivar

»

» Bonitas

» Inmensas

» Coronas Extra

»

» Fonseca

»

» Cosacos

»

» Upmann

»

» Coronas Junior

» Monarcas

»

» Hoyo De Monterrey

»

» Hoyo Du Roi

»

» Montecristo

»

» Joyitas

»

» Partagas

»

» Super Partagas

» Princess

» Petit Coronas

»

» Punch

»

» Super Seleccion No 1

»

» Quintero

»

» Nacionales

»

» Vegas Robaina (only 3 cardboard packs to be discontinued)

»

» Famosos (25's will remain....only cardboard packs discontinued)

» Don Alejandro (25's will remain....only cardboard packs discontinued)

» Clasicos (25's will remain....only cardboard packs discontinued)

»

Hey don't worry guys; they will all be back someday, as REs or LEs :-)

Dave

[harryleech]

To all of you who say that this may be a success, may work ok blah blah blah blah I say one thing: Guinness light. For those of you that have never heard of Guinness light, there is a reason: It fell flat on it's face and was an even greater failure than new Coke.

Guinness Light was an attempt by some marketing genius in Guinness to bring the beer that had been around since 1759 into the 20th century. Their slogan was "They said it couldn't be done." Apparently, it couldn't. It's failure was so complete that it was named "The HMS Titanic of stout products" by the Irish Times. The reason I use this as an analogy rather than 'new' Coke is that like Guinness, the Montecristo brand goes back a long way and when you have something that impossible to re-create or imitate (hundreds of years of heritage) you don't fu*k with it plain and simple.

I'm sure that they teach the parables of Guinness Light, 'new' Coke etc in Spanish marketing classes as they are pretty fundamental and very basic lessons. The Cubans seem to grasp this and they have been making these cigars since the year dot, so why try and reinvent the wheel? Why not start an Edmundo Dantes brand line (as the 109 seems to have been quite popular?) Or something else that has some relevance to Cuban history or cuban cigar history? But Montecristo Open?!? Come on!

By the way there have been a few other spectacular failures with new Guinness brands since a large multi-national took them over (sound familiar?) Guinness Breo in the mid-90's (white Guinness) and Guinness low alcohol last year. Mess with the brand and you'll lose the die-hard fans and new consumers may try for a while, then give up.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Montecristo Open: The HMS Titanic of Cuban cigar brands!

[Wiley]

Damn good thing I got my cab of SS#1 while the getting was good!

[Shelby07]

» To all of you who say that this may be a success, may work ok blah blah

» blah blah I say one thing: Guinness light. For those of you that have

» never heard of Guinness light, there is a reason: It fell flat on it's

» face and was an even greater failure than new Coke.

»

But the failure of Guinness Light had nothing to do with the name. The product sucked!

I don't know... I'm sure that most cigar smokers will want to at least try the new cigars, and if they're great cigars they could be called anything and they'd be a success. The thing about brand names is after a while they become familiar enough to take on their own meaning. After a while people could be referring to the "open" in the same way as they refer to "Siglos" or "Shorts."

If they turn out to be great cigars, I'll probably call them "O's"

[harryleech]

[» » To all of you who say that this may be a success, may work ok blah blah

» » blah blah I say one thing: Guinness light. For those of you that have

» » never heard of Guinness light, there is a reason: It fell flat on it's

» » face and was an even greater failure than new Coke.

» »

»

» But the failure of Guinness Light had nothing to do with the name. The

» product sucked!

»

»

» I don't know... I'm sure that most cigar smokers will want to at least try

» the new cigars, and if they're great cigars they could be called anything

» and they'd be a success. The thing about brand names is after a while they

» become familiar enough to take on their own meaning. After a while people

» could be referring to the "open" in the same way as they refer to "Siglos"

» or "Shorts."

»

» If they turn out to be great cigars, I'll probably call them "O's"

Hi Shelby,

Part of the failure of Guinness Light was the product. But a large part was the marketing geniuses (genii?) imagining an 'opening' in the market where there was none:

1. Stout drinkers do not want to drink something seens as 'light.' They see that as a bit wussy, for lack of a stronger adjective.

2. Cuban cigar smokers do not need an even milder version of Montecristo!

I have yet to meet anyone who has smoked a Montecristo and gone "you know what the problem with this cigar is? It's just too strong for me..." If anything I like a slightly stronger blend, but the Montecristo blend is perfectly balanced for what it is: Anything lighter or stronger and it's no longer a Montecristo, nor should be in the line. It should be a seperate marca, with consistent charectaristics for it's history, lineage etc. And without the crappy name or dodgy, cheap looking packaging!

For the same reason I do not think that the maduro 5 should have been launched as a Cohiba, but as a seperate marca (perhaps if they want to launch a maduro line they should have have a seperate line for that and a seperate line for this new 'mild' ie bland blend, in the same way that they launched a seperate marca for figurado's, Cuaba.) But at least the Cohiba brand is only 40 years old give or take, so they're not meddling too much with the heritage of the brand (which is the most tangible piece of intellectual property they have to market Montecristo.)

I think also that the so called marketing guru's in HSA are missing the entire point: The key to success for Cuban cigars in the US market is not going to be imitating the NC brands like Macanudo etc. The reason that they are not kicking the ass of most of the NC's in the US market is that they don't have access to that market! Take away the embargo and all of a sudden HSA will have an instant market (for the brands that they don't have conflicts with the same NC names) that they won't be able to meet the demands of (ala the cigar boom) so why try and pander to that market now? I've yet to meet a cigar smoker who is uninterested in trying Cuban cigars once they have the opportunity!

And am I wrong (I'm not in the US market, so maybe I'm just believing the hype, apologies if that's the case) but haven't the biggest successes in recent years (at least according to CA etc) been or NC brands who are doing their best to emulate the best of Cuba? Pete Johnson's Tatuaje range, the Don Pepin Garcia blends for all the major cigar companies.... Padron anniversary's are also quite strong (though not overly complex for the few that I've tried) as are Opus X.

I don' mean to be argumentative or close minded (ok, maybe I do ;-) ) but I just don't see the need for the new line, as well as hating the mocked up packaging!

And I think if they want to get the duty free market they would be better off just

a) getting more tubo's to the market on time (ie the P2 tubo's that may not land this year at all and

having higher production values on the double banded cigars that they've just launched ie the Mag 46 in tubos and Epi Especial's 2nd bands both look extremely cheap...

Pull up your socks Habano's marketing!!!

[bassman]

Low alcohol Guinness? I always thought the stuff they sell as regular Guiness in the USA was low alcohol. At least the Foreign Export version they sell in the Caribbean Islands is over 7% alcohol.

[Claudius]

» It is ABB, All Bout

» Business; their philosophy is now “**** em” let them pay through the

» nose, on only what we want to sell. And it better sell a lot!!! They have

» shown the entire cigar smoking world that they do NOT care about their

» Customers. They have shown that they are Greedy and strictly care only

» about the CUC, Dollar, Euro or whatever currency they do their accounting

» by. All they care about is “Show Me the Money”, gone is the

» rich Heritage of Cuban Cigar Manufacturing, it is only about the money.

» Sad, sad, sad state of affairs.

»

» D: The new Montecristo “Open” is a entry level cigar, strictly for new

» cigar smokers and directly intended for the female market. It is my belief

» that Imperial intends to roll these out for the US Market as soon as

» possible. They foresee the Embargo not lasting much longer and want to

» expand rapidly into the American Market.

I dont blame HSA for wanting to make money. You may be right that they are planning ahead for a possible fall of the US embargo, but that is certainly a mid-term (2-5 years) event at best.

If people wanted mild cigars or a mild Montecristo, then I assume dealers are permanently sold out on Diplomaticos, Hoyos, ERDM, Rafael Gonzales, Juan Lopeza nd Quai d'Orsay, right? Err, no, wrong. The truth is most people dont want mild cigars. The next truth is Montecristo is 20% of what HSA sell, so they slap a Monte-something label on a cigar and think it will sell. Will it sell? We'll see, but I have serious doubts. IMO people want the real deal, not a light, Sport, Golf, or Open version of something. The only way these would sellis if people who dont know about cigars were to buy lots of these at duty free shops as gifts. But I think this is a minor part of sales, most people will bring back what the cigar smoker back home asked them to bring. Obviously, HSA's extensive studies of what duty free customers want have informed them otherwise (j/k :-D)

[cigarros]

» Only two distributors are maintaining a level of growth with the rest

» stagnant or dropping. Conditions are expected to remain difficult in the

» immediate future. Cigar lines offered will continue to be reviewed with

» those removed being replaced by new offerings which hopefully wiill have

» more market appeal.

Great post, Prez!!! Tell please who is showing growth? In which countries?

[Colt45]

» Great post, Prez!!! Tell please who is showing growth? In which countries?

Dmitri, I'm not Rob, but he mentioned Asia and the Middle East as the regions showing growth.

It's somewhere in this thread.

[cigarros]

» » Great post, Prez!!! Tell please who is showing growth? In which

» countries?

»

» Dmitri, I'm not Rob, but he mentioned Asia and the Middle East as the

» regions showing growth.

» It's somewhere in this thread.

THX for reply! But one more question - in Russia according statistic date from HSA retailers, consumption cigars of all global marks grows. MC selling with demand steady. I'm not sure that HSA thinking make or mar. And I hope so many countries, so many customs. Isn't it?

[Colt45]

Brian, in cased you missed it, here's a link to a thread which shows the proposed packaging as well:

[link=http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entry.php?id=85701&page=0&order=time&category=all.tld/]Click Here[/link]

In addition, I feel the use of Dom and Rolex to be somewhat condescending - I don't know if the

analogies are Rob's or Imperial's.

These are names that people know, and while Dom is a great wine, and Rolex a fine watch, there are

others that are equal or superior. To me it really smacks of a focus on marketing - "the masses don't

know any better", versus a focus on quality.

I've said this before, but I'll babble on again - I'd love to see the production of Cuban cigars opened up

to competition. It'd be nice to see companies whose primary focus would simply be the production of

great cigars.