Accused of selling fake Siglo VI Tubos

[El Presidente]

Wilkey...thank you for all the trouble you went to. Much appreciated.

Stunned at the SLR cedar sheet

Habanos s.a. changes suppliers quite regularly these days as they have adopted a tendering process for Tubes, bands etc.

It is important that if you have concerns on discrepancies to come out and say so. In this case the client e-mailed us and it could be sorted out (which is the process we are going through).

What would be worse is if the client stewed in misconceived thoughts.

Open and frank discussion is important in these matters. We all learn. This morning I arrived not having a clue how many "petals" were in the construction of a Siglo VI cap

[Ginseng]

Oh yes, one more thing.

Rob and all of Czar deserve an apology from you for the unfounded accusation as well as the reckless manner in which it was delivered.

You obviously have not been paying attention to all the efforts that Rob has taken to open his house and his heart to us.

Wilkey

[Ginseng]

» Wilkey...thank you for all the trouble you went to. Much appreciated.

»

» Stunned at the SLR cedar sheet

It's the least that I could do considering.

That sheet is pretty wacky is it not? I mean they could have used a blank sheet, or even broke off one from a cab of Serie A to fit. But to make the effort to replicate one with a soldering iron. Inconceivable.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

No apology necessary.

E-mail can be a blunt tool when emotions get the better of you. I can count many times when I would love to have taken back an e-mail and written it again.

I am just glad that you all have shed some light on the subject.

[smokum]

» It is important that if you have concerns on discrepancies to come out and

» say so. In this case the client e-mailed us and it could be sorted out

» (which is the process we are going through).

»

» What would be worse is if the client stewed in misconceived thoughts.

»

» Open and frank discussion is important in these matters. We all learn.

» This morning I arrived not having a clue how many "petals" were in the

» construction of a Siglo VI cap

This says it all. Judging from his friendly note to HSA...if he was supplied a faker he would be on the next plane out to hang the heads of PCC and HSA. And Lisa would cut their nuts off.

TAMPA... I followed the link posted to the other board. A very excellent response you gave. Cudos.

[The Wise Old owl]

This whole thing is stunning... packaging aside, of all cigars, a SIGVI should easily be recognized as genuine or not once fire is set to it.

Wish I'd bought some of those fake '03s Prez offered a while back...

[smokum]

I did bring a box home Owl.....they say Sigblo VI on the box . They are one hell of a fatty but a tremendous cigar.

[toasterhead]

Hey Prez,

I'll pile on; 11 Siglo VI tubes checked and all are 8 panels, top and bottom. 7 three-pack cardboard boxes checked (10 tubes gifted away!) and no black stripe on the Habanos sticker. All acquired from you in 2008.

The quality of the cigars has been stellar. If you line them all up and look closely you can see variation of wrapper shade and slight differences in girth but the length and construction are otherwise dead on.

Where's the beef?

Dave

[Ken Gargett]

who even knew that ribs on the inside of a cap existed?

i would say that, first up, i think it a bit unfair to jump down the throat of the member who put in the complaint. he had a problem, right or wrong, and emailed privately to address it and quite legitimately in my view, if he could not get an acceptable explanation, wanted his money back. i think that is fair. now, it is up to him how he chooses to respond. i also wonder from the wording if perhaps english is not his first language (apols if it is) and we all know how easily this can lead to conveying an impression that may not be exactly the one intended.

rob has posted the issue, without naming the member, so that everyone can have a say and again i think that was a good way to go.

i think the responses have been interesting and i have learnt a lot.

now, all that being said, i'm just a bit pissed at this member for not bringing it directly to my attention and not rob's. imagine the fun i could have had. after all, who amongst us has not spent many a winter's evening carefully counting the ribs on the inside of a siglo vi cap - i know i have - just looking for something like this. i could have arranged picketers outside czar headquarters with placards and even may be a tv camera. the courier mail headquarters are just around the corner. what a wasted opportunity.

i did rush home to check my tubes (not a sentence i ever thought i'd utter) and they are all 16's. but then i didn't get them from rob. mine were all from the very early days of release in havana.

i did pick up a box of lusi's from rob this morning and while they look sensational, the lid of the box is a little out of whack. FAKE! FAKE! i want my money back (but only if i can keep the cigars).

[ARRV]

» who even knew that ribs on the inside of a cap existed?

» i would say that, first up, i think it a bit unfair to jump down the

» throat of the member who put in the complaint. he had a problem, right or

» wrong, and emailed privately to address it and quite legitimately in my

» view, if he could not get an acceptable explanation, wanted his money

» back. i think that is fair.

Save that prior to emailing he obviously posted on another board without prior consultation. That is simply "not on" as it were.

The whole thing is just unbelievable to me. I mean you're dealing with hand made products from a third world country yet people expect outright perfection and impregnable consistency.

Travel to any third world country and you'd be amazed that anything gets done let alone Cuba where there are a number of daily problems that these people face such that I'm amazed that these people can even spell cohiba correctly on a consistent basis let alone worry about cap lines and wedges.

Worst of all this punter has completely ruined the whole purpose of smoking a cigar which is to enjoy it - he was and forever will be so paranoid that any cuban purchased will be somehow wrong in some miniscule detail that the smoke itself will take second place to an investigation of minutia.

Why bother. Hell if I'd probably smoke dried banana leaves if they tasted like a Sig VI.

Having said that I am sure rob has been selling fakes for years. :-P

What he actually sells are Australian puros - or worse, Bondi Cigars.

[Ken Gargett]

» Save that prior to emailing he obviously posted on another board without

» prior consultation. That is simply "not on" as it were.

okay, was not aware of that. missed that. thought he had done the right thing by going privately to rob and lisa but if he has posted elsewhere without corroboration then he should be exposed, thrown to the dogs, hung drawn and 1/4ed. flogging is too good. i retract my earlier sentiments and think that he deserves all he gets. you people have been far too soft on him.

[ARRV]

» » Save that prior to emailing he obviously posted on another board without

» » prior consultation. That is simply "not on" as it were.

»

» okay, was not aware of that. missed that. thought he had done the right

» thing by going privately to rob and lisa but if he has posted elsewhere

» without corroboration then he should be exposed, thrown to the dogs, hung

» drawn and 1/4ed. flogging is too good. i retract my earlier sentiments and

» think that he deserves all he gets. you people have been far too soft on

» him.

I could be wrong - but on my reading of that CA post the allegation is made first then in a later post the author states he will now contact the vendor once Job's comforters have given him their support

[El Presidente]

» okay, was not aware of that. missed that. thought he had done the right

» thing by going privately to rob and lisa but if he has posted elsewhere

» without corroboration then he should be exposed, thrown to the dogs, hung

» drawn and 1/4ed. flogging is too good. i retract my earlier sentiments and

» think that he deserves all he gets. you people have been far too soft on

» him.

Lets not draw and quarter anyone. Reality is that we have learn't the construction dynamics of current Siglo VI Tubos.

I appreciate everyones help. As a community we got to the bottom of it. All in all a good days work

[El Presidente]

» » It is important that if you have concerns on discrepancies to come out

» and

» » say so. In this case the client e-mailed us and it could be sorted out

» » (which is the process we are going through).

» »

» » What would be worse is if the client stewed in misconceived thoughts.

» »

» » Open and frank discussion is important in these matters. We all learn.

» » This morning I arrived not having a clue how many "petals" were in the

» » construction of a Siglo VI cap

»

» This says it all. Judging from his friendly note to HSA...if he was

» supplied a faker he would be on the next plane out to hang the heads of

» PCC and HSA. And Lisa would cut their nuts off.

»

» TAMPA... I followed the link posted to the other board. A very excellent

» response you gave. Cudos.

Bob, the day I sell a fake cigar is the day I shut the doors. If PCC cannot maintain supply integrity then the whole system is beyond repair.

[Claudius]

» As we all know, Club Czar is ONLY supplied by Pacific Cigar Company (PCC).

How would we know that?

[El Presidente]

» » As we all know, Club Czar is ONLY supplied by Pacific Cigar Company

» (PCC).

»

» How would we know that?

You have my word. I could give you all documentary evidence/contracts you need. But you don't need them, because you have my word.

[SmokinAl]

» » As we all know, Club Czar is ONLY supplied by Pacific Cigar Company

» (PCC).

»

» How would we know that?

I don't. Rob says it's so. I've met the man and his word is good enough.

If that's not enough for you, he'd be a comlete **** to risk his business of ten years for the sake of introducing any questionable product. This should be easy Claudius, it's common sense.

[El Presidente]

Al, on reflection it is a legtimate question.

If there comes a day when I take on a second supplier I will announce it upfront. I don't see it occuring. No-one will find out via accident.

Claudius, I signed an exclusivity supply agreement with PCCHK in 2001/2002. There are benefits and there are pitfalls but overall it has served both operations well.

Under my contract I cannot import or sell Cuban cigars outside of PCC supply.

Claudius I know what you are implying. There are retailers (well regarded) who have been caught out with fakes recently. They went outside the official channels.

I can only give you my word that I have always kept to the letter of the contract and the intent. Should I decide to exit the contract then Dag would be the first person to know followed by this board....and before a cigar is sold from the new supplier.

Relax Dag

[Claudius]

» » » As we all know, Club Czar is ONLY supplied by Pacific Cigar Company

» » (PCC).

» »

» » How would we know that?

»

» You have my word. I could give you all documentary evidence/contracts you

» need. But you don't need them, because you have my word.

Rob, I trust you, you know that.

I was simply trying to say that one cannot prove a negative. Nobody can prove that they are only supplied by an official Habanos distributor. One can prove one buys from PCC, Intertabak, 5th ave, etc., but one cannot prove that one doesnt buy elsewhere. It just isnt possible to prove something one doesnt do.

It was clumsy of me posting this here. That said, I could question the person who emailed you in the same manner. There is no guarantee for internal construction of a tubo; he ordered Siglo IV A/T and that's what he got. If the color of the tube were a pale yellow or the band were different from that of other cigars of the same marca, he would have a valid point. But minor changes such as the ones mentioned are not good enough to question authenticity. Reminds me of people yelling fakes whenever the Montecristo band changes or when boxes change from cedar to okume. What puzzles me is how they expect such packaging consistency from a third world country, but most of all, how they complain about it without smoking one of the cigars first. If I see something unusual in a box of cigars, my first reaction is always to smoke one of the cigars. Usually, I find an explanation of what has changed and why on the internet later on. Much better than making a fool out of myself on a forum (although I do that, too :-P)

[Caesar]

Pardon my ignorance.

I have some Siglo VI tubos. What in the hell am I looking for (and where) when you discuss 8 vs 16 panels?

Thanks.

[El Presidente]

Your right mate, you can't prove it. I could have all the watertight contracts in the world and still ship in a few cases to average down costs. Plenty have done it, plenty do it.

Still there is a pleasure in simplicity. Looking in someones eyes, shaking their hand, making a deal and keeping it. True friendships blossom from such relationships be they business or personal.

There are many things I like about this FOH community but one thing I really enjoy is that it is a looking glass for all members in to the day to day world of Czars....good bad and ugly. We really do work in a "Trueman Show" environment where invariably what we do gets posted. Today was no different. It keeps you on you toes ;-)

[El Presidente]

» Pardon my ignorance.

» I have some Siglo VI tubos. What in the hell am I looking for (and where)

» when you discuss 8 vs 16 panels?

»

» Thanks.

Take off the cap. Look inside to the cone. Are there 8 or 16 seams?

[Claudius]

» Claudius I know what you are implying. There are retailers (well regarded)

» who have been caught out with fakes recently. They went outside the

» official channels.

Rob, I dont know if you're referring to the fake Swiss ELs, but if that's the case, that's a Swiss problem. Säuberli AG, a cigar importer belonging to the Oettinger Group (like the Davidoff brand) got fakes and sold them to the Swiss retailers (including the Davidoff shops, obviously). Most retailers in Switzerland buy from both Intertabak and Säuberli, so most retailers in Switzerland had these fakes. With exception of the La Casa del Habano. They are only allowed to buy from Intertabak, and as far as I am aware, only do buy from Intertabak. I've turned around countless boxes at LCH Geneva and not one was from anybody but Intertabak. That's the LCH gaurantee: only cigars from the official importer, where no fakes can get mixed in. As far as I'm concerned, I trust you completely and buying from you is as good as buying from a LCH. With the exception of buying from you being cheaper and service better. ;-)

[northo]

Just for reference- the only sig 6 tubo I have has 16 top 8 bottom.

Didnt the guy say on CA say they smoked fine he was just worried about the packaging. Seems a very curious complaint.

(Oh and by the way Rob- next time I order it's not good enough just to send fine, good-looking and delicious cigars, I also want them wrapped in Persian silk, placed individually in highly polished golden tubes and then sprinkled with fairy dust.)

[cigarnv]

Why doesn't the buyer just smoke a few? It continues to amaze me that people will go through painless hours of research on everything, but taste ,that will prove little or nothing.... the proof is in the smoking.