General Stuff in Life Poll: Your one & only sports GOAT

[Capn_Jackson]

I think there are several factors that make it difficult to determine a GOAT, but I have my picks in various sports.

MJ

Brady (damn him…)

Nolan (yeah, I’m biased)

Beltré (for non-pitchers, and again… heavily biased)

Pelé

Jack

Karch

Phelps

Simone

The Great One

[Ford2112]

Boxing- Ali

Hoops- Jordan

Baseball- Mays

Football- Rice

Hockey- Gretz

MMA- GSP/Fedor

Wrestling- The Nature Boy WHOOOOOOOO!!!

But the all time GOAT??

 

Arnold Schwarzenegger

[Chibearsv]

I’m in camp B. I think it’s impossible to objectively name a GOAT, especially in team sports. 

My GOAT is Tiger. He played the game in a way that nobody thought was possible. He had all the tools: skill, power, artistry, nerves of steel, and touch. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

I believe it's Wayne Gretzky, and if you look at his stat comparison and records and then compare it to someone like Michael Jordan, Jordan would have needed something like 20,000 more points to be in the same ballpark.

There's a reason he's called the Great One.

[BoliDan]

1 hour ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

I believe it's Wayne Gretzky, and if you look at his stat comparison and records and then compare it to someone like Michael Jordan, Jordan would have needed something like 20,000 more points to be in the same ballpark.

There's a reason he's called the Great One.

That's not how you spell Bobby Orr. Let's add in defense l stats as well.

[chasy]

11 hours ago, Ford2112 said:

Boxing- Ali

Hoops- Jordan

Baseball- Mays

Football- Rice

Hockey- Gretz

MMA- GSP/Fedor

Wrestling- The Nature Boy WHOOOOOOOO!!!

But the all time GOAT??

 

Arnold Schwarzenegger

Tell me you've watched the Arnold documentary (on Netflix)? He is the man.

[chasy]

Not sports, but he's the GOAT of Australians.

[Ruggerpgh99]

2 hours ago, BoliDan said:

That's not how you spell Bobby Orr. Let's add in defense l stats as well.

You are both spelling Mario Lemieux incorrectly. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

4 hours ago, BoliDan said:

That's not how you spell Bobby Orr. Let's add in defense l stats as well.

 

2 hours ago, Ruggerpgh99 said:

You are both spelling Mario Lemieux incorrectly. 

As they say, y'all are willllllldin'.

Wayne Gretzky holds 61 NHL records, many of which are considered unbreakable.

• Most career points: 2,857 in 1,487 games
• Most career goals: 894 in 1,487 games - now broken by Alexander Ovechkin
• Total career points, including playoffs at 3,239
• Most points single season: 215
• Most points single season w/playoffs: 255
• Most shorthanded goals: 73
• Youngest player to score 50 goals in a season
• Most points by NHL player in first year
• Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 includes 122 playoff goals
• Most goals single season 92
• Most goals one season w/playoffs 100
• Most goals in one period at 4, tied with 10 other players
• Most career assist: 1,963
• Most career assists including playoffs: 2,223
• Most assists single season 163
• Most assists single game: 7
• Most single-season points: 25
• First 1,000 points in 424 games
• Second 1,000 points in 433 games
• Playoff goals 122
• Playoff assist 260
• Playoff hat tricks 10
• Game winning goals 24
• Single postseason point record of 47
• Single postseason record of 31 playoff assists wasn't broken until 2024
• Only player to reach 2,000 career points
• Only player to reach 3,000 career points, regular season and playoffs combined
• Only player to reach 1,000 career goals, regular season and playoffs combined
• Only player to reach 2,000 career assists, regular season and playoffs combined
• Finished his career with 1.921 points per game average
• Gretzky holds the record for most MVP awards of any player in North American professional sports.

I could go on for two or three more pages.  And it wasn't even just that he was the most amazing forward to play the game, he made the entire team better.

[Ford2112]

4 hours ago, chasy said:

Tell me you've watched the Arnold documentary (on Netflix)? He is the man.

Yes he is. 

[Chas.Alpha]

Another vote for the Great One.🏆

[BoliDan]

9 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

As they say, y'all are willllllldin'.

Wayne Gretzky holds 61 NHL records, many of which are considered unbreakable.

• Most career points: 2,857 in 1,487 games
• Most career goals: 894 in 1,487 games - now broken by Alexander Ovechkin
• Total career points, including playoffs at 3,239
• Most points single season: 215
• Most points single season w/playoffs: 255
• Most shorthanded goals: 73
• Youngest player to score 50 goals in a season
• Most points by NHL player in first year
• Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 includes 122 playoff goals
• Most goals single season 92
• Most goals one season w/playoffs 100
• Most goals in one period at 4, tied with 10 other players
• Most career assist: 1,963
• Most career assists including playoffs: 2,223
• Most assists single season 163
• Most assists single game: 7
• Most single-season points: 25
• First 1,000 points in 424 games
• Second 1,000 points in 433 games
• Playoff goals 122
• Playoff assist 260
• Playoff hat tricks 10
• Game winning goals 24
• Single postseason point record of 47
• Single postseason record of 31 playoff assists wasn't broken until 2024
• Only player to reach 2,000 career points
• Only player to reach 3,000 career points, regular season and playoffs combined
• Only player to reach 1,000 career goals, regular season and playoffs combined
• Only player to reach 2,000 career assists, regular season and playoffs combined
• Finished his career with 1.921 points per game average
• Gretzky holds the record for most MVP awards of any player in North American professional sports.

I could go on for two or three more pages.  And it wasn't even just that he was the most amazing forward to play the game, he made the entire team better.

Ill give it to you. Patrick Roy is still my favorite player. Forget the offensive guys.

[LaoFan]

Thought about this for a few days...

Naming the goat of any individual sport is hard enough. here's my list of people who do that:

• Basketball - MJ (although if Lebron wasn't such an attention seeking non-cool dweeb, he had the natural gifts and brain to surpass him... but he was too focused on trying to be as cool as MJ... not in the same universe)
• Tennis - Serena Williams.
• Track - Usain Bolt. The guy was talking shit and jogging into the finish line and still set the world record.
• Swimming - Michael Phelps
• Soccer - Messi.
• F1 - Hamilton. (I should be at the Singapore GP if anyone will be in town)
• Football - Tom Brady (and I grew up in a Mormon household watching Steve Young throw TD after TD to Jerry Rice. But leaving Bill and winning in TB is the nail)
• Boxing - I'm biased towards Tyson. Actually an intelligent dude.. but just loved to partying and making bad decisions too much. (I know it's Ali... for the same reason Jordan. Rumble in the Jungle might be the greatest sporting event of all time)
• Hockey - Gretzky. Not even close.
• Golf - Tiger. If he hadn't been such a sex addict, nobody would even be questioning this... they still shouldnt.
• MMA - Jon Jones

All that said... the GOAT of GOATS?

I also don't think it's that close.

MJ.

Forget the records. Forget 6 finals appearances, 6 championships, and 6 finals MVPs. Forget never needing a game 7. Forget 5 reg season MVPs, 10x scoring champ, for the bobby orr comments above... Jordan also made 9 all-defense first teams.

He transcended his sport in a way no one else ever has. He made basketball bigger than basketball.

Before Jordan, the NBA was a U.S.-centric league with pockets of hype.

After Jordan? It was a global religion. He turned the game into a movement — a cultural force that swept through Asia, Europe, and playgrounds in every corner of the world.

Soccer had Pele and Maradona, but soccer was that already... long ago.

Basketball became international because of MJ, not Bill Russell, not Kareem, not even Bird or Magic — and I say that with all the love and reverence of a kid raised by a dad who stroked corner jumpers like Larry Legend himself.

I didn’t really feel it until I watched The Last Dance. That doc made it plain: Jordan’s confidence wasn’t ego — it was prophecy.

He knew he was the standard, and he walked it, talked it, and cashed every check his aura wrote.

And in case this forum needed further reason to pick him... let’s be real — the man smokes how many cubans a day?

He's probably the most iconic cigar smoker alive.

Nobody oozes cool like MJ. On the court, off the court — still the flyest, fiercest, most iconic athlete to ever do it.

[Dlowil]

4 hours ago, LaoFan said:

Thought about this for a few days...

Naming the goat of any individual sport is hard enough. here's my list of people who do that:

• Basketball - MJ (although if Lebron wasn't such an attention seeking non-cool dweeb, he had the natural gifts and brain to surpass him... but he was too focused on trying to be as cool as MJ... not in the same universe)
• Tennis - Serena Williams.
• Track - Usain Bolt. The guy was talking shit and jogging into the finish line and still set the world record.
• Swimming - Michael Phelps
• Soccer - Messi.
• F1 - Hamilton. (I should be at the Singapore GP if anyone will be in town)
• Football - Tom Brady (and I grew up in a Mormon household watching Steve Young throw TD after TD to Jerry Rice. But leaving Bill and winning in TB is the nail)
• Boxing - I'm biased towards Tyson. Actually an intelligent dude.. but just loved to partying and making bad decisions too much. (I know it's Ali... for the same reason Jordan. Rumble in the Jungle might be the greatest sporting event of all time)
• Hockey - Gretzky. Not even close.
• Golf - Tiger. If he hadn't been such a sex addict, nobody would even be questioning this... they still shouldnt.
• MMA - Jon Jones

All that said... the GOAT of GOATS?
I also don't think it's that close.
MJ.
Forget the records. Forget 6 finals appearances, 6 championships, and 6 finals MVPs. Forget never needing a game 7. Forget 5 reg season MVPs, 10x scoring champ, for the bobby orr comments above... Jordan also made 9 all-defense first teams.
He transcended his sport in a way no one else ever has. He made basketball bigger than basketball.
Before Jordan, the NBA was a U.S.-centric league with pockets of hype.
After Jordan? It was a global religion. He turned the game into a movement — a cultural force that swept through Asia, Europe, and playgrounds in every corner of the world.
Soccer had Pele and Maradona, but soccer was that already... long ago.
Basketball became international because of MJ, not Bill Russell, not Kareem, not even Bird or Magic — and I say that with all the love and reverence of a kid raised by a dad who stroked corner jumpers like Larry Legend himself.
I didn’t really feel it until I watched The Last Dance. That doc made it plain: Jordan’s confidence wasn’t ego — it was prophecy.
He knew he was the standard, and he walked it, talked it, and cashed every check his aura wrote.
And in case this forum needed further reason to pick him... let’s be real — the man smokes how many cubans a day?
He's probably the most iconic cigar smoker alive.
Nobody oozes cool like MJ. On the court, off the court — still the flyest, fiercest, most iconic athlete to ever do it.

And let the church say...Amen!

[Lucas Buck]

10 hours ago, LaoFan said:

Thought about this for a few days...

Naming the goat of any individual sport is hard enough. here's my list of people who do that:

• Basketball - MJ (although if Lebron wasn't such an attention seeking non-cool dweeb, he had the natural gifts and brain to surpass him... but he was too focused on trying to be as cool as MJ... not in the same universe)
• Tennis - Serena Williams.
• Track - Usain Bolt. The guy was talking shit and jogging into the finish line and still set the world record.
• Swimming - Michael Phelps
• Soccer - Messi.
• F1 - Hamilton. (I should be at the Singapore GP if anyone will be in town)
• Football - Tom Brady (and I grew up in a Mormon household watching Steve Young throw TD after TD to Jerry Rice. But leaving Bill and winning in TB is the nail)
• Boxing - I'm biased towards Tyson. Actually an intelligent dude.. but just loved to partying and making bad decisions too much. (I know it's Ali... for the same reason Jordan. Rumble in the Jungle might be the greatest sporting event of all time)
• Hockey - Gretzky. Not even close.
• Golf - Tiger. If he hadn't been such a sex addict, nobody would even be questioning this... they still shouldnt.
• MMA - Jon Jones

All that said... the GOAT of GOATS?

I also don't think it's that close.

MJ.

Forget the records. Forget 6 finals appearances, 6 championships, and 6 finals MVPs. Forget never needing a game 7. Forget 5 reg season MVPs, 10x scoring champ, for the bobby orr comments above... Jordan also made 9 all-defense first teams.

He transcended his sport in a way no one else ever has. He made basketball bigger than basketball.

Before Jordan, the NBA was a U.S.-centric league with pockets of hype.

After Jordan? It was a global religion. He turned the game into a movement — a cultural force that swept through Asia, Europe, and playgrounds in every corner of the world.

Soccer had Pele and Maradona, but soccer was that already... long ago.

Basketball became international because of MJ, not Bill Russell, not Kareem, not even Bird or Magic — and I say that with all the love and reverence of a kid raised by a dad who stroked corner jumpers like Larry Legend himself.

I didn’t really feel it until I watched The Last Dance. That doc made it plain: Jordan’s confidence wasn’t ego — it was prophecy.

He knew he was the standard, and he walked it, talked it, and cashed every check his aura wrote.

And in case this forum needed further reason to pick him... let’s be real — the man smokes how many cubans a day?

He's probably the most iconic cigar smoker alive.

Nobody oozes cool like MJ. On the court, off the court — still the flyest, fiercest, most iconic athlete to ever do it.

Dead on! What a great read. I’m a big F1 fan and Lewis is without doubt the greatest race driver ever, period. Might take Gretzky over MJ though it’s damn close and you make one helluva case for Michael. 

[Li Bai]

Very much agreed with y'all but I'm surprised nobody mentioned Sébastien Loeb 🤔

[Lucas Buck]

Oh and Simone Biles! Talk about "not even close". 

[bmac]

MJ

Brady

Tiger

Willie Mays

[Ken Gargett]

On 7/8/2025 at 10:05 PM, Ruggerpgh99 said:

I think, in many sports, you can still define a goat, but in some, its getting much harder. Is Tiger or Jack the greatest golfer of all time (Tiger)? Sure Tom Brady has rings, but, I would say that Jerry Rice, is a better football player. Is Jonah Lomu the greatest rugby player of all time? 

I like the use of standard deviations from @JohnS however, I think there are more statistics that can be used to work on those details. I don't have the patience to do the math on a lot of these, but for golf, I think there is more to be done than just Majors, including total wins, and margin of victory, would also do well to provide more statistics on the GOAT debates. I feel like distilling it into one specific catagory for Standard deviations is limiting the argument. 

Jonah lomu was a phenomenon but no chance he is the best rugby player of all time. long debate about who, but as good as he was, not sure anyone is suggesting Jonah. 

[Ken Gargett]

On 7/8/2025 at 7:25 PM, JohnS said:

The best sportsman in the modern era is without a doubt Sir Donald Bradman. If you aren't aware, he was a Test Cricketer who had a batting average that was a little over 1.6 times higher than very other player who has played the game since 1877 (when the game was formalised in modern times to be played between nations) and batted at least in 20 innings. He was knighted by Queen Elizabeth for his services to cricket the year after he retired in 1949. He remains the only Australian cricketer to be knighted.

So how does he compare to other sports starts of the modern game? According to his Wikipedia page, there is an interesting segment on Charles Davis' statistical analysis of the standard deviation in comparison to the mean (or average) for each game...

Wisden hailed Bradman as "the greatest phenomenon in the history of cricket, indeed in the history of all ball games". Statistician Charles Davis analysed the statistics for several prominent sportsmen by comparing the number of standard deviations that they stand above the mean for their sport. The top performers in his selected sports are:

Athlete	Sport	Statistic	Standard deviations
Bradman	Cricket	Batting Average	4.4
Pelé	Association football	Goals per game	3.7
Ty Cobb	Baseball	Batting average	3.6
Jack Nicklaus	Golf	Major Titles	3.5
Michael Jordan	Basketball	Points per game	3.4

The statistics show that "no other athlete dominates an international sport to the extent that Bradman does cricket". In order to post a similarly dominant career statistic as Bradman, a baseball batter would need a career batting average of .392, while a basketball player would need to score an average of 43.0 points per game over their career. The respective records are .366 and 30.1.

When Bradman died, Time allocated a space in its "Milestones" column for an obituary:

...Australian icon considered by many to be the pre-eminent sportsman of all time...One of Australia's most beloved heroes, he was revered abroad as well. When Nelson Mandela was released after 27 years in prison, his first question to an Australian visitor was, "Is Sir Donald Bradman still alive?"

Below is some footage of his batting technique enhanced in colour and upgraded to 4K quality. Enjoy!

john, so glad you posted this. 

i am a massive fan of Jordan, of Ali, of Pele and a few others - Wally Lewis when it comes to rugby league. 

but there can be no doubt that the all time goat was bradman. no one comes close. 

i see one of our friends posted MJ as the all time goat yet even in this small sample, i have seen the names russell, lebron, walt proposed as well as MJ. personally, i think MJ for basketball, but if you cannot agree on the best in a sport, how the hell can he be the all time greatest. makes no sense.

aside from an occasional drunk imbecile, no one has ever challenged bradman. the greatest cricketer without question and he dominated it by so much. anyone who watched the video saw Thommo at the end. consider that Thommo is probably the fastest bowler ever to play the game and he is in awe, bowling to a 78 year old. greg chappell mentioned another great quick, Ray Lindwall, talking about how good he was. ray was a good mate of my dad's and they played together. there are endless stories we could add. mum actually saw him play. 

bradman far and away. 

[Dlowil]

12 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

Jonah lomu was a phenomenon but no chance he is the best rugby player of all time. long debate about who, but as good as he was, not sure anyone is suggesting Jonah. 

An American’s (who lived in NZ for two years) perspective. Jonah Lomu transcended Rugby. Brought my attention to it as a football player in the states. Richie McCaw is who I’d ultimately pick. Brady-esque with dominance, longevity, consistency, leadership, and success. Always cool even in tightest of tests. I was in NZ from 2014-2016. Those years all but cemented his legacy as the goat. The All Blacks haven’t found the same level of consistent success since. They are still Elite. With McCaw they were damn near untouchable.

[Ken Gargett]

a further point when one looks at stars today and from some years ago - the gear. that video of bradman showed him with a bat that today's players would not touch. thin, almost weedy. today's bats are twice the weight and power. protective gear. in another universe. tennis players. look at today's racquets compared to the older ones. ridiculous difference. many other examples. 

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Dlowil said:

An American’s (who lived in NZ for two years) perspective. Jonah Lomu transcended Rugby. Brought my attention to it as a football player in the states. Richie McCaw is who I’d ultimately pick. Brady esque with dominance, longevity, consistency, leadership, and success. Always cool even in tightest of tests. I was in NZ from 2014-2016. Those years all but cemented his legacy as the goat. The All Blacks haven’t found the same level of consistent success since. They are still Elite. With McCaw they were damnear untouchable.

one of those sports with many contenders. top of head, probably dan carter. he was more important to the all blacks than mccaw, who was another great. eales, loane, Mayfield, mccaw, quite a few forward contenders. campo, horan, carter, lots more backs. i have not even touched the northern hemisphere. 

[Ken Gargett]

On 7/9/2025 at 12:43 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

Eddy Merckx is the most dominant GOAT for the sport he competed in.

He won 525 races out of the 1,800 he competed in.This means he won approximately 29% of all the races he entered.  

.

with respect, i do not think that comes close to bradman's dominance. or heather mckay. i have to confess i don't even know what sport he competed in. 

[Ken Gargett]

On 7/8/2025 at 11:47 PM, Goldeneye said:

Not a tennis fan at all, but for me the clearest example of a GOAT is Serena Williams. Total domination of the sport for a long period of time.

no argument a great player and a serious contender for goat status, but margaret court dominated women's tennis to an even greater degree. won more slams. and remember, played in an era where the rules insisted she travel alone (unless playing for a national event on behalf of Australia). no coaches, no entourage, no support and no family allowed. how would have the pampered princesses handle that! not that serena was pampered - i stood next to her once at the Aussie Open. she is scary big.