Current state of Cuba - article from the Sunday Times

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

 is what I was thinking if the US wants to buy out Cuba, which will be almost impossible, but one can only dream. 

The takeover will be economic. It will be ugly and anyone's guess as to where it would end. The trick will be getting investment/real jobs outside of Havana/PDR. 

[MrBirdman]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

The takeover will be economic.

Bingo. The US financial industrial complex will benefit far more if Cuba is an utterly decimated economy without an established government when trade is reopened. 

I suspect that if reopening were to happen under the current administration, privatization of the major industry, including tobacco, with American investment would be a non-negotiable. Nick Perdomo loves to name drop his “friend” Marco Rubio. Get ready for the Cohiba “Champagne” edition.

[VeguerosMAN]

17 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Bingo. The US financial industrial complex will benefit far more if Cuba is an utterly decimated economy without an established government when trade is reopened. 

I suspect that if reopening were to happen under the current administration, privatization of the major industry, including tobacco, with American investment would be a non-negotiable. Nick Perdomo loves to name drop his “friend” Marco Rubio. Get ready for the Cohiba “Champagne” edition.

The only problem is that the Cuban military won't easily let go of their power. I believe the military is in control of the government, not the other way around.

Heavy NC hitters could buy out Cuban tobacco and we will be smoking Cuban versions of Padron, Fuente, Davidoff, etc

[BrightonCorgi]

6 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

The only problem is that the Cuban military won't easily let go of their power. I believe the military is in control of the government, not the other way around.

Virtually anyone involved in military or government in Cuba is corrupt. Money & opportunity can sway allegiance. The US needs to recognize whatever form of government Cuba evolves too will be equally corrupt.

[SCgarman]

50 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Heavy NC hitters could buy out Cuban tobacco and we will be smoking Cuban versions of Padron, Fuente, Davidoff, etc

I know you like to dream "big", but this one is off the charts beyond realistic. Why would any NC cigar company that has spent decades growing their own tobacco in Nicaragua/Honduras/Dominican want to dilute their distinct flavor of their cigars with tobacco from another country that tastes totally different?

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, SCgarman said:

I know you like to dream "big", but this one is off the charts beyond realistic. Why would any NC cigar company that has spent decades growing their own tobacco in Nicaragua/Honduras/Dominican want to dilute their distinct flavor of their cigars with tobacco from another country that tastes totally different?

Because if they don't someone else will. These brands can create new lines of cigars without the detriment to what already exists.

[El Presidente]

5 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Because if they don't someone else will. 

It will be bedlam. No one is going to pass the advantage of using the best tobacco in the world to someone else. 

 

 

 

 

[JohnS]

18 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

It will be bedlam. No one is going to pass the advantage of using the best tobacco in the world to someone else. 

Completely agree with this. Furthermore, if trust could be re-established in a business sense and outside companies could manufacture cigars using Cuban tobacco again, as it was prior to the Cuban Revolution in the late 50s, then these companies would be stampeding in there to specifically get the 'choice' tobacco in the west side of the island, especially around the Pinar del Rio region.

[mikejh]

5 hours ago, SCgarman said:

I know you like to dream "big", but this one is off the charts beyond realistic. Why would any NC cigar company that has spent decades growing their own tobacco in Nicaragua/Honduras/Dominican want to dilute their distinct flavor of their cigars with tobacco from another country that tastes totally different?

I heard an interview with Manuel Quesada and he said one time he got a hold of a little Cuban tobacco and blended it with a Dominican binder and wrapper I think and he said it was the best cigar he'd ever had. It was his opinion that if Cuban tobacco could ever be freely blended with other countries it would be a whole new world of cigars.

You can listen to the interview here from September 28, 2006, starts talking about Cuba around 41 minute mark
https://web.archive.org/web/20071007213913/http://www.cigar.com/podcast/

[SCgarman]

9 hours ago, mikejh said:

I heard an interview with Manuel Quesada and he said one time he got a hold of a little Cuban tobacco and blended it with a Dominican binder and wrapper I think and he said it was the best cigar he'd ever had. It was his opinion that if Cuban tobacco could ever be freely blended with other countries it would be a whole new world of cigars

I also seen an interview with Jorge Padron who lit up something Cuban (possibly a Monte 2) many years ago and shared his thoughts. He was not impressed, and hinted the Cuban was one dimensional and not on par with the cigars he makes. So everyone has an opinion. Until something drastic in Cuba happens, this is all just noise. The status quo in Cuba may continue well past our lives here on Earth. 

[El Presidente]

9 hours ago, SCgarman said:

He was not impressed, and hinted the Cuban was one dimensional and not on par with the cigars he makes. So everyone has an opinion. 

Jorge, Rocky, Pete, Carlito etal. Fantastic salesmen/frontmen and in an interview situation...generally full of shit. 

They would sell their mother to permanently get hold of top end Cuban leaf. 

[BrightonCorgi]

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

It will be bedlam. No one is going to pass the advantage of using the best tobacco in the world to someone else. 

Habanos could be the someone else in this instance. China has a stake in Habanos, no? What if they want to go a new direction?   

[VeguerosMAN]

There is no way Padron or Fuente would just buy Cuban tobacco leaves from Habanos or the government. They need to buy the entire land and work the land with proper nutrition and fertilizer to meet their standards. Total vertical integration. 

[VeguerosMAN]

9 hours ago, SCgarman said:

I also seen an interview with Jorge Padron who lit up something Cuban (possibly a Monte 2) many years ago and shared his thoughts. He was not impressed, and hinted the Cuban was one dimensional and not on par with the cigars he makes. So everyone has an opinion. Until something drastic in Cuba happens, this is all just noise. The status quo in Cuba may continue well past our lives here on Earth. 

I remember the interview. I believe it was Monte Petit Edmundo and he said it wasn't properly fermented and tasted like battery acid, if I remember correctly.

14 hours ago, SCgarman said:

I know you like to dream "big", but this one is off the charts beyond realistic. Why would any NC cigar company that has spent decades growing their own tobacco in Nicaragua/Honduras/Dominican want to dilute their distinct flavor of their cigars with tobacco from another country that tastes totally different?

Look at Fuente. They are expanding to Nicaragua and I don't think it will dilute their "Dominican" core lines. Just like Cuban tobacco won't dilute Padron's core Nicaraguan line. 

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Habanos could be the someone else in this instance. China has a stake in Habanos, no? What if they want to go a new direction?   

Habanos S.A. is only the marketing arm. They don't own the tools of production. 

New sheriffs in town and I suspect everything is up for renegotiation. 

[Uwiik]

No, I don’t think the problem in Cuba was caused by US. China is always out there ready to eat whatever the US puked out, why aren’t they all over Cuba right now? Because there is NO value in helping Cuba. However, yes I think the embargo is dumb, there is nothing to be gained for all side over something that happened way too long ago, we all know it’s not about democracy. We also need to acknowledge that most of us mentioned Cuba just because we smoke CC, nothing less and nothing more. 

My native country and Cuba is somewhat similar in corruption level. There is a saying that a population always deserves their government and I 1000% believe in this. Granted that Cuba is communist but no bad government can survive that long without the support of the majority of its population, democracy or dictatorship. Just look at Iran, Afghanistan, Palestine and many others. Whether this support was garnered through false promises, intimidation or pure stupidity is another matter. I understand this because I live in the most beautiful but also one of the world’s most corrupted countries (slightly better than Cuba) where the average IQ of the population is 78 (just slightly above chimpanzees) and we tend to pick the most corrupt candidate on every single quasi democratic election, as long as the candidate is religious, can recite the right prayer and don’t mind spewing empty promises of freebies for the poor population, same old tactics for decades always resulted in guaranteed win. It is mind boggling. The population is just blinded by religion, it is so ingrained for centuries there is no possibility that it will ever change ever. There is a reason I never use my right to vote, it’s hopeless. 

It is a fact that a screwed up country always benefits tremendously a small population (5-15%) of the lucky ones, where their support has massive multiplier effects on the uneducated population who will just parrot whatever the richer elites says, thinking that their fate will change eventually if they follow. What you see on the news or limited experience are always very narrow reflection of the country and there are a lot more the eyes have yet to see. Myself, who belong to the wrong race with the wrong religion and stuck as a bottom feeder on the top 1 percent earner of the population (read...I am well off but not rich) cannot even do anything at all, if I don’t play the games I cannot even get a right to live here, I have to bribe just to get a government ID, I have to bribe to get my passport but I get it in one day and the rest of the population will get theirs in 7 days (massively better than 6 months wait for Canadian passport), heck I even have to bribe to get my tax ID but it will be hand delivered to my door by a person in uniform. It was all simple choice for us, use your brain to play along with the games of corruptions or suffer the consequences. It is what it is… 

On the flip side, I have travelled the world enough to see that common population in poor countries, especially in Asian countries, are a lot more nicer and happier (mentally not physically), friends and family is everything for them, they are not too busy chasing the latest iPhone and iPad when all they care is maintaining food, accommodation and education. Try to ask the Koreans if they are happier now after they got so rich and advanced, or happier a few decades ago when things are a bit messier. The birth rate shows, animals won’t breed if they are stressed beyond limit, it is a scientific fact, and we are animal. I think chasing basic human needs is healthier on your soul than chasing a iPhone. Heck, at least here in mine we truly don’t even have hunger or homeless problem because it’s just so damn fertile and everyone just takes care of their neighbors/families. On the other hand, whenever I stay or travel to first world countries I always face hostility, impatience and aggression, it is a clear sign of angry/sick population. I got assaulted three times (one really bad) for no reason whatsoever in the Melbourne CBD during my 6 years stay there, got threatened once with a knife in Vancouver city during my stay there, the level of shouting is another level when you make small mistake anywhere in the US it is scary, nobody would be anywhere near you if you don’t look the same or speak the language in EU it’s depressing, my whole family was thrown out of a cafe like stray cats in Korea because my toddler kids got a little too loud twice. All the while I never got assaulted once in my native banana republic country and there were 6 people who abandoned their rides to help me when I got into accident on a crossroads and I wasn’t even hurt. Everything led me to appreciate my corrupt country and its people more. I ditched my Australian residency after living there for 6 years and compounded 25k in parking and speeding fines (all over 1-5 kmh above limit or 2-5 minutes over time, hasty but tend to follow the rule), I don’t intend to continue my Canadian residency which was granted to me few years ago. I tried living in Vancouver for a while and found out that the school teacher tried to convince my daughter that being a queer is way better than being straight and my daughter was still 11 yo when that happened, tried to sue but who am I to challenge that huge and thick liberal fortress? Of course, in the end it was me who got stuffed with lawyer’s bill. I left these first world countries while still able to maintain my lifestyle, so the reason to go back to my native country (I am Dutch-Chinese-Native mix, not a native race) wasn’t economic reasons. I will take a banana republic any day when the other choice is violence and LGBTQ ideology being shoved down my kids’ throat. I have no problem with LGBTQ, have 3 gay and trans cousins with intact brains who never supported the movement (the modern purple haired extremist version). At least in a banana republic a nobody like me can make a real difference to a small community of my countrymen/women of 130 people earning decent to high living wage where on the other hand I am completely useless except to myself/family if we are living in a first world country. Just offering you folks a different perspective.

All I am trying to say is ‘Let Cuba be Cuba’, and welcome those who want to leave ONLY through proper way, it’s just impossible to make everyone happy, even God ain’t doing it. I am sure not everyone wants to leave anyway. There is a lot of benefits and charms of both sides of situations for a country. Sometimes these benefits applies unfairly to certain groups of people but I don’t see anything different to what’s happening to first world countries nowadays, just look at Europe and US in the past few decades where ALL the benefits are bestowed to alien foreigners and purple/rainbow haired populations when the local population, XY chromosome who identify as such and the old schooler getting the middle finger, that ain’t right either and I am saying this as an ex immigrant to the West who entered lawfully years ago but left due to the hypocrisy. Lately, when I see how EU mighty infallible government treats their own native citizens and beginning to xerox the dictators they shunned by silencing differing opinions, made me wonder if the West’s much more advance status was only pure luck because Caucasians completed the evolution much sooner than the other races?? And no, I am not parroting JD Vance, my Danes manager is fed up with his native country Denmark and getting a citizenship here after 21 years.

No offense to anyone and let’s all relax. After all, it’s just the same shit different smell…✌️ peace 

[Puros Y Vino]

Outside of the legality of acquiring Cuban tobacco and selling it in the US markets, I'm surprised that no NC makers don't just buy up a bunch of cheaper Cuban cigars, deconstruct them and blend them into a NC/CC hybrid. I've seen Hamlet and other rollers take apart a cigar to either fix an underfill or apply a new wrapper. They'd have to sell it outside of the US of course. But I'd bet they'd garner a lot of interest.

[VeguerosMAN]

On 2/18/2025 at 8:12 AM, El Presidente said:

You are deluded or have a selective memory.

Yes, people we associated with were "so happy". They were indeed the primary beneficiaries. Less so outside of Havana and the big towns or if you were poor and black. 

So was the government a beneficiary. They hoovered up the cash, got stronger, and reinvested the money in hotels the military owned as opposed to investing in their power plants and grids. How has that worked out for them today?  

Speaking of power plants and grids, Havana only gets 6 hours of power and Pinar only 2 hours daily. Something needs to be done, but don't know what can be done.

5 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

Outside of the legality of acquiring Cuban tobacco and selling it in the US markets, I'm surprised that no NC makers don't just buy up a bunch of cheaper Cuban cigars, deconstruct them and blend them into a NC/CC hybrid. I've seen Hamlet and other rollers take apart a cigar to either fix an underfill or apply a new wrapper. They'd have to sell it outside of the US of course.  But I'd bet they'd garner a lot of interest.

Perhaps the blends don't work with already rolled tobaccos.

[Puros Y Vino]

2 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

perhaps the blends don't work with already rolled tobaccos

You don't know until you try though. 😁Let's say you work for Fuente. You make your way to Cuba. You buy a box of Monte 2 and 4. You bring it back to your factory in Nicaragua. You take two of you best rollers and tell them to make a Fuente NC/CC Petit Corona & Piramide. They each take a box, deconstruct it and make some experimental blends and cigars. Maybe a Fuente NC with just a CC wrapper. One with CC filler and NC binder and wrapper, etc. Many permutations of this. If none of them have thought about this, I'd be very surprised. The only thing I can see them holding back is pride.  They'd rather not know if adding Cuban tobacco improves their product.

[LaoFan]

11 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

You don't know until you try though. 😁Let's say you work for Fuente. You make your way to Cuba. You buy a box of Monte 2 and 4. You bring it back to your factory in Nicaragua. You take two of you best rollers and tell them to make a Fuente NC/CC Petit Corona & Piramide. They each take a box, deconstruct it and make some experimental blends and cigars. Maybe a Fuente NC with just a CC wrapper. One with CC filler and NC binder and wrapper, etc. Many permutations of this. If none of them have thought about this, I'd be very surprised. The only thing I can see them holding back is pride.  They'd rather not know if adding Cuban tobacco improves their product.

I'm a buyer.