Piramides

[jakebarnes]

Sort of in the vein of the Deep Dives, I figured it might be fun to do more (subjective) data mining. Specifically wanted to talk more about specific vitolas and where everyone thinks they stand. Figured the Piramides are a fun place to start. So here goes with 2 questions:

1. How would you rank the piramides in the portfolio in order of preference?

2. As a secondary question, if you have the experience with age, where you think the "prime" or minimum age you'd recommend.

I'll abstain for now. Very interested to hear what you all think!

 

 

[jakebarnes]

I'll give it a go then I guess. Expected a little more traction, but guess it's good to have something to debate at the start. This may be controversial, it may not be--I just find the Piramides to be a hard one to sort out (well, except my top 2). 

1. Cohiba Piramides Extra. Honestly, this is one of the few times I put Cohiba as a head-and-shoulders above winner for a vitola. The handful I have had absolutely blew me out of the water. The blend just makes sense and doesn't seem to suffer the same fate of being out of balance if blend/age are slightly off. Think these start to hit their prime at 5 years (which is the age of the one that changed my view), but still good in that 3-5 year window. 

2. Partagas Series P No 2. This is a consistency play first and foremost, but I love this blend and it's such a rich example of what I think the Partagas Serie line can be. A bit more of the sourdough and paprika up front when they are young, I've found they really develop some of that cream and musty forest I enjoy out of the start of a Lusi. Absolutely beautiful savory experience. 3+ years for sure on age (I don't love them as much as some do young), and 5+ smooths out every edge. 

3. Vegas Robaina Unicos.  My first Unicos was actually a pretty terrible experience--it felt like early 2000s VR had a lot of draw issues and it was a prime example of that. Regardless, the experience reminded me of trying to drink a more-frozen milkshake through a straw: it was slow going with minimal reward, but the flavors made me want to keep going. I think that the flavor part carries true today and is what puts this cigar in the third position for me. When I want a "wow" factor that is truly decadent in this vitola, the Unicos are a treat. Chocolate, cream and coffee bean with a pinch of the fruit/prune note with a rich body (and an aroma to match) provide a ton of complexity. I'd say 2-3 years with the recent boxes is enough to get the experience, but they can age for quite a bit and still shine. 

4. Diplomaticos No 2. The disclosure here is--may main experiences with the Diplo 2 are those TOS boxes that were amazing from 2016 era. The consistency of those that I have had were spot on and I toyed with putting Diplo 2 in the third spot as a result.  Lots of DNA with the Monte 2 but I find it to be a richer experience--I think someone called it a "gourmet blend" and I think that suits it best, with complex flavors that move along your palate as you go. When the sweet leather and capsicum profiles are strong, this is a real treat. My boxes are sitting at 7 years now and keep getting better, but I'd say that around 4 years is when they really started to make me say "wow" and lock in to the experience. Interested to see if that continues with my 2022 box when I eventually get into it. 

5. H. Upmann No. 2.  It feels too low to have the Upmann No 2 here, but that's what it looks like from my rankings. Consistent, but seems like the fans of this cigar state that it requires a lot of age to shine (5+) and I never really chased them back then. Younger Upmann 2's haven't had the same richness or complexity as the 4 piramides listed above and left me wanting. Nice notes of shortbread and baking spices but didn't have the backbone that the others do--feel I can get the same flavor profile with less time with a Connie 1. 

6. Montecristo No 2. It's a bit odd to have one of the most iconic cigars down here, but it is also the most inconsistent cigar of this lot. I've had a few that were "on" but countless others that were not. Cocoa core and at it's best, a rich medium-bodied experience that has cream and a buttery-ness to it for me. I don't really seek them out due to the inconsistency and would rather have a Double Edmundo. 

[TacoSauce]

Never smoked a pyrimides. They just seem too big for me. For me the belicoso is the perfect top size. I hereby suggest that all marcas migrate their pyrimides to belicosos. 

[gormag38]

Personally for me: 

HU2<CPE<P2<DIP2<M2

I am a upmann whore. And the recent examples I've had have been great. Think I have a few 2012s laying around that were amazing as well. Lots of complexity and honestly could go for some more years. 

CPE is an amazing cigar. The price point killed me back then (and does so even more now). But it is a great example of a rich/classy cigar. 

P2s are probably one of the most consistent cigars out there....new examples have been on fire!

DIP2s are probably my least favorite....they're not bad by any means. There are just much better options out there imo. 

M2s much like the OP has stated, seems like a shame to put this is last place (as it really is an amazing cigar) but it just has to be ON! When it is, it is likely in my second spot. It's just that you have to smoke through quite a few to find one. 

 

Oddly enough, I've had no experience with Unicos so I didn't include it on my list. I've heard great things but have never gotten the itch to splurge on a box. 

[MagicalBikeRide]

No love for the M2 here. I’ve been hovering them lately 😂 

[Chibearsv]

Making a list in order of preference is tough for me always since my favorite really depends on my mood and flavor craving at the moment.  I can provide my favorite 5 Piramides pretty easily though:

CPE - wonderful cigars - more punch than my typical Esplendidos and a great change of pace for Cohiba - better with age

PSP2 - wonderful cigars - a smooth medium delivery of Partagas flavor

M2 - wonderful cigars - when they are on - which the ones I've tried from 2021 certainly are.

HU2 - wonderful cigars - became impossible to find after CA rated them - find the darkest wrappers possible and they are something special

Diplo 2 - wonderful cigars - new, aged doesn't matter to me, they just work consistently

As you can see, I am a fan of the Vitola.  Trouble is, it's really difficult to find value in Pirmamides currently, so they aren't hitting my purchase radar.  That is, If you can find them at all.

[LizardGizmo]

Under 5 years of age, my preference is:

1. Cohiba Piramides Extra
2. Montecristo No. 2
3. Partagás P2
4. Vegas Robaina Unicos
5. H. Upmann No. 2
6. Diplomatico 2

Over 5 years of age:

1. H. Upmann No. 2
2. Cohiba Piramides Extra
3. Partagás P2
4. Montecristo No. 2
5. Vegas Robaina Unicos
6. Diplomatico 2

I really have fallen in love with CPE recently, and I think '19-'22 Monte 2 have been stellar. Monte 2 prior to '18 are very hit or miss for me. Upmann 2 is the big climber and with 5 years of age it's hard to beat, especially compared to CPE pricewise.

[Ford2112]

I don't smoke pyramid vitolas often but I have yet to smoke a Dip2 that didn't make me say wow. I used to love Monte 2. I'd be more inclined to smoke other vitolas from the marque.

P2. Meh last batch I had.

VR. Only had one. Loved it!

PE. Too much Dinero.

Never tried an Upmann.

[BrightonCorgi]

I have to say I love them all except for the Diplomaticos.  Never had Diplomatico No. 2 I thought was worth remembering. 

Upmann are the most consistent and Unicos are just notch better.  One of my favorite vitolas for sure.  Partagas weren't so great 10-15+ years ago but now it's an amazing vitola for their range.  One of the best current Partagas for sure.

[SCgarman]

9 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I have to say I love them all except for the Diplomaticos.  Never had Diplomatico No. 2 I thought was worth remembering. 

Upmann are the most consistent and Unicos are just notch better.  One of my favorite vitolas for sure.  Partagas weren't so great 10-15+ years ago but now it's an amazing vitola for their range.  One of the best current Partagas for sure.

Agreed. The Dip #2 was very underwhelming, I expected so much more. I was gifted a Dip #3 a few years back, and it was one of the best cigars ever. Upmann #2 is very good with that characteristic shortbread flavor/coffee notes. The Unicos have that one of a kind prune/chocolate flavor notes very different from Upmann. At current pricing for all the #2's, I'm out of the game though. I can't justify 700usd for any of these unfortunately. The $300/bundle Canonazo is a formidable  alternative. 

[Rushman]

Cannot comment on all of them throughout all marcas, but certainly my top three in no particilar order are:

Partagas P2

Diplo #2

VR Unicos

[El Presidente]

I can't fault George's over 5 year list. Under 5 years I have re-arranged a few chairs based on 21-23 stock. 

 

Under 5 years of age:

1. Cohiba Piramides Extra
2. H. Upmann Number 2 
3. Partagas Serie P 2 
4. Montecristo No. 2
5. Vegas Robaina Unicos 
6. Diplomatico Number 2 

Over 5 years of age:

1. H. Upmann No. 2
2. Cohiba Piramides Extra
3. Partagás P2
4. Montecristo No. 2
5. Vegas Robaina Unicos
6. Diplomatico 2

[Nevrknow]

1. CPE yes yes and yes

2. P2 barely edges the MC2. Close call.

3. MC2 been very fortunate in everyone has been spot on. So far. 

only ones I have tried being a newer smoker. 19-21 boxes.

Wish the Upmann hit me better but I guess I'm an outlier. Still have a few newer boxes. I'll let them hit 5 years and try again. If they still don't do it for me I'll be hitting the trading room. 😁

[targa88]

1. Upmann #2
2. Vegas Robaina Unico
3. Montecristo #2
4. Bolivar Belicoso Fino

All aged over 5 years....no recent acquisitions...

[RDB]

I think it’s daft trying to rank them. They have different characters, and I enjoy them all at the right time - they are all of their marca. So if you want a pyramide type experience (cool, tons of smoke, not the greatest complexity) then it’s all about what marca profile you want (cocoa for Monte, toasted bread for Partagas etc). I probably smoke the most M2s, but the VR and Dip options are the most distinctive.

[MagicalBikeRide]

 

1 hour ago, RDB said:

I think it’s daft trying to rank them. They have different characters, and I enjoy them all at the right time - they are all of their marca. So if you want a pyramide type experience (cool, tons of smoke, not the greatest complexity) then it’s all about what marca profile you want (cocoa for Monte, toasted bread for Partagas etc). I probably smoke the most M2s, but the VR and Dip options are the most distinctive.

See your angle. But preference is preference. Multiple marca’s exist for a reason. And if we took a step back, we’d have reached daft long before this particular thread.

 

[MagicalBikeRide]

I’d have M2 top of the pile. For me, it’s the flag bearer for Cuban tobacco. It’s iconic in aesthetic and reputation. It has so much to offer that is uniquely Cuban. Call it twang, call it saltiness, call it whatever you want. A really good one, more common in recent years, is an hour plus well spent. And really hard to replicate with any other tobacco. 

[TacoSauce]

6 minutes ago, MagicalBikeRide said:

See your angle. But preference is preference. Multiple marca’s exist for a reason. And if we took a step back, we’d have reached daft long before this particular thread.

I have it from reliable sources that I "reached daft" several years ago.

[Tunkat92]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Under 5 years I have re-arranged a few chairs based on 21-23 stock

I’m surprised to see the Unicos so slow on your less than 5 year list. I feel like the 22 Unicos have been crazy good compared to other fresh piramides. But all around for the best examples of each, the competition has been stiff.

[jakebarnes]

1 hour ago, Tunkat92 said:

I’m surprised to see the Unicos so slow on your less than 5 year list. I feel like the 22 Unicos have been crazy good compared to other fresh piramides. But all around for the best examples of each, the competition has been stiff.

Part of the reason I started with piramides for this exercise. I feel like they've generally been so good but kinda grouped together...but to call it parity is a travesty and sells short just how good they are. 

[hrs1]

This is a tough one - great thread @jakebarnes!  

I enjoy the vitola & recent examples are smoking really well across all brands.  But, agree with @Chibearsv - I'm struggling with value prop of the piramides currently.  It's probably time to start picking favorites 🫣

1. H. Upmann No. 2
   • The hype right now is well deserved. My EPO MAY 22 box is holding its own against an EOS OCT 18 box of Sir Winstons.
2. Diplomaticos No. 2:  
   • My go to change of pace cigar. It's also the only regular production option available from the brand, so it's the only way to get my Diplomaticos fix.
3. Partagas Series P No. 2
   • Very rich. Solid construction. Excellent cigar.
4. Montecristo No. 2
   • It gets dinged for consistency, but might be my favorite piramide when it's on. I'm smoking through a PSP box from our host (MTS OCT 21) at the moment that is approaching legend status. If only each box were this good ....
5. Cohiba Piramides Extra  
   • Just above the Siglo I as my least favorite Cohiba ....Maybe it's just bad luck, but my wallet & wife are rejoicing 😂

Despite how great all these cigars are, I'd likely reach for other vitolas in each brand before the piramides. I love Mag 50s & HUSWs. D4s & Lusis are must haves. Just about any other Cohiba does the trick for me. But, nothing embodies Montecristo & Diplomaticos like a great No 2 .... @El Presidente - any chance we can get some PSP boxes up on 24:24 again? 

Now, off to crack open a box of Unicos to see what all the fuss is about  

[targa88]

I would also add (empirically) that the quality of production/ rolling has been superior in the piramides category.

Not sure whether that is a function of the "complexity" of rolling this shape - potentially requires a more experienced roller..

[jakebarnes]

Good to hear on those MTS OCT 21 boxes, @hrs1. Haven't cracked mine yet. Might be time to...

[gormag38]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:49 AM, hrs1 said:

PSP box from our host (MTS OCT 21)

I've got a 21 box of MTS PSP2s from this factory that are smoking lights out. I've stashed them at the very bottom of my humidor so I'd keep my paws off of them. 

[Chibearsv]

1 hour ago, gormag38 said:

I've got a 21 box of MTS PSP2s from this factory that are smoking lights out. I've stashed them at the very bottom of my humidor so I'd keep my paws off of them. 

Mine already went bye bye 😟, but they were terrific.