NCs under Cuban marcas

[patrickamory]

I haven't seen this discussed much except a (rightful) dismissal of Cohiba Red Dots.

When FOHers list their favorite NCs, it seems they are always brands that don't use CC marcas as their names - it tends to be Padron, Tatuaje, Ashton, Fuente, and so forth.

Are there any good cigars produced under the non-Cuban Montecristo, La Gloria Cubana, H. Upmann, Partagas, or Romeo y Julieta brands? Were some of these not re-establishments by exiled Cubans who owned the original marcas?

I'm just curious, as a newbie in general, and even more so a newbie in the NC world.

[JLH]

I don't buy many so can't speak extensivly other than to say, there is a reason I don't buy them. Some of the brands get hot shot AJ Fernandez to blend some sticks so they get a big score but they are relativly boring. I did buy a few of the the Partagas Cortado ($6) and for the price it is a terrific stick. I know Dion from Illusione has a blend coming out for one those brands, so I'll probably buy that. And for the record, I would say at $4 for a churchill, the Red Dot is just fine. No reason to bash it. I have smoked many of them. 

Jason

[SCgarman]

I would say many of the non Cuban "versions" of their Cuban name counterparts are no longer owned or affiliated with the families that escaped Cuba with seeds after Castro seized power. As been mentioned General Cigar has names under it's umbrella now. Perhaps there are other large conglomerates besides General. I have had RyJ, Montecristo NC's in the past. Never had a Cohiba red dot. The name was clearly ripped off as the Cuban Cohiba was created after the Cuban revolution. If I were to reach for a non Cuban it would likely be a Padron, Fuente, My Father or a Hamlet. Many also swear by Tatuaje and Illusione. 

[Pharmacovigilant]

I have always likened it to the brewing industry where the General brands represent the Millers, Buds, and Coors of the world and the smaller boutique brands are the microbrews. I tend to find more nuance, character and variety in Vitola size in those boutique brands. Good luck finding an NC Monte or Upmann in a Lancero or even a Corona for that matter.

[BrightonCorgi]

Partagas NC's were the leader in NC Cuban marca names since this was such a thing.  They released iconic cigars in their own right like the 150th Anniversary and Limited Reserves.  The Humitubes are a terrific cigar.  Keep in mind all this being said, not having an NC Partagas in 15+ years.  More recently, I was impressed with an NC H. Upmann 1844 Anejo's. 

When Dunhill was selling cigars in their US boutiques in the 90's, their humidor was A-Z of NC Cuban marcas and novel name ones that look like Cuban marca styling.  The olde days.

[TobaccoRoad]

When a communist country uses a name brand without permission on an inferior product, they call it counterfeiting. When a capitalist country does it they call it marketing. I avoid them out of principle.

[Cairo]

2 hours ago, TobaccoRoad said:

When a capitalist country does it they call it marketing.

What really yanks my chain is when they call their cigars "cubanesque".

Newbies get bamboozled by that stuff.

[Ford2112]

I avoid them. It just bothers me. I also hate the term Cubanesque. Come up with your own flavor marketing>"Pure Pepper Bombs"

[cigcars]

        *Of the NC cigars I've found I enjoy almost on par with actual Cubans are: Castadaglia Daughters of the Dust cigars: Padron 45th Family Anniversaries: And surprising bundles Cuban Sandwich with the Cameroon wrapper available from Mike's Cigars catalog; Finck's Cigars out of Texas Lamb's Club. 

[patrickamory]

Fascinating, thanks for the history everyone!!

[Fugu]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:24 AM, BoliDan said:

General Cigars put those brands on the market and got the brands rights after the embargo

Way more complicated. General Cigar (of Scandinavian Tobacco today) didn’t buy the rights from the expats right after the revolution. Spanish Tabacalera had been involved to a great part before. And there had been other companies/entities holding TMs of certain Cuban brands initially. The Cuban expats sold their trademarks, yet no doubt about that. But there had been ongoing dispute between Cuba and the new trademark holders whether those transactions had any ‘legal’ character. Because, following their reasoning (Cubatabaco’s), the Cuban state (“rightfully”) seized physical as well as intellectual property before, claiming those as “genuine” Cuban brands. Much of these court cases had been happening in the 80s and 90s, and been finally bilaterally settled after some long and fierce fighting (which e.g. lead to Monte and Partagás as well as some others having temporarily not been available in Spain and certain other markets in Europe in the 80s, a little known fact today). Plus some decent money flowing... The Cohiba case was only settled in 2006.

As for the NC counterpart brands, I have very limited to no experience with them, for in markets where Habanos holds the TMs General does not. So the NC-versions are not available (and getting those clandestine shipped into Europe by some “Friends of Non-Habanos / Czar-Merica” isn’t really an option 😂).

But one particular cigar I might mention. That is the Partagás/Macanudo “Benji Master Series - Majestuoso” of 2009. A Dominican / Nicaraguan blend with a beautiful Cameroon wrapper in a Corona Gorda-ish format. This had originally been branded Partagás elsewhere and had been distributed under the Macanudo label by General Cigar in Europe. Same stick. That is/was a very decent cigar, created by or under the auspices of Benjamin Menéndez. As a CC smoker I was pleasantly surprised. There have been follow-up formats based on the same blend, which I hadn’t tried.

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, Fugu said:

But one particular cigar I might mention. That is the Partagás/Macanudo “Benji Master Series - Majestuoso” of 2009. A Dominican / Nicaraguan blend with a beautiful Cameroon wrapper in a Corona Gorda-ish format. This had originally been branded Partagás elsewhere and had been distributed under the Macanudo label by General Cigar in Europe. Same stick. That is/was a very decent cigar, created by or under the auspices of Benjamin Menéndez. As a CC smoker I was pleasantly surprised. There have been follow-up formats based on the same blend, which I hadn’t tried.

Cameroon wrapper is a hallmark of the NC Partagas line.  I am a fan of Cameroon wrappers too!

[patrickamory]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Cameroon wrapper is a hallmark of the NC Partagas line.  I am a fan of Cameroon wrappers too!

As am I... one thing that drew me to the Hemingway line.

[gustavehenne]

I've tried a few. I really really like the Trinidad Espiritu Series 2 Fundador which uses a bunch of Mata Fina tobacco in it.

Had my first Montecristo Nicaragua Series No. 2 the other day (Cigar of the Year No. 2 allegedly) and it was nice but nowhere close to my Top 20. I wouldn't buy another box although it was terrifically constructed and looked fantastic.

[LordAnubis]

I once had a Partagas P2 side by side to a Partagas Heritage (NC)... and the NC was better.

MdO medio tempo line is nice i find aswell, it has a sweet tip.

The Hoyo Excalibur is good too from my trials.

Bolivar was ok, nothing to write home about but nothing disgusting.

Overall the trinidad, monte, ryj, hupmann were a pass from me. Not tried red dot.

[JLH]

Of note (maybe tragedy, time will tell), General did purchase the Room 101 cigar brand and hired Matt Booth to play a major role in one of their sub brands, which I think controls Partagas. Again, keeping in mind, these brands have zero to do with their Cuban namesakes, but this is a first in recent years. These types of things in, Beer, Music, and etc. rarely are positive to the palates of the connoisseur. 

My understanding is if the embargo is lifted, most cubans would need to re-brand for the U.S. market. 

Jason

[Ej456]

I used to smoke a non Cuban partagas which was a half way decent cigar then smoked a Cuban partagas and decided like a poster said above I can’t do this out of principle. Come up with your own name. 

[Fugu]

6 hours ago, Ej456 said:

and decided like a poster said above I can’t do this out of principle. Come up with your own name.

As I was alluding to above, the question is (and has been for long in litigations) what’s the “own” here. Those General Cigar brands are the ones that trace back and have been initially bought from the expatriates, i.e. the original trademark owners.

15 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Cameroon wrapper is a hallmark of the NC Partagas line.  I am a fan of Cameroon wrappers too!

Found some nice further reading here, CA interview from 2010 with Benji Menéndez, going far beyond said cigar and Cameroon wrapper leaf....

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/an-interview-with-benjamin-menendez-15452

[BrightonCorgi]

6 hours ago, Fugu said:

Found some nice further reading here, CA interview from 2010 with Benji Menéndez, going far beyond said cigar and Cameroon wrapper leaf....

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/an-interview-with-benjamin-menendez-15452

Great article.  I do remember shying away from NC Partagas around that time as they started to be less flavorful and haven't had one in quite some time.  In the 90's their Limited Reserve I thought was as good as any Cuban cigar (and priced like one ).  The 150 anniversary was the starting point of their decline.  So much hype on a range of cigars that just did not live up to the story.  The humidor is cool.  I know someone with one or two of them untouched.

[clickbangdoh]

When I started smoking cigars, I of course started with NC's being in the US, picking up a few here and there. Weirdly, I never gravitated to the "Cuban" brands, and mostly ended up on the boutique side of things. I know part of it was, even then I knew about the real cuban brands, and so I also felt like, why don't you just make your own new brand like all these boutique brands (Tatauje, Oliva, Perdomo, Drew Estate, etc, etc.) have painstakingly done? I know there's some nuance there with the sale of the brands by expats and all, but that was my feeling. So, I never really smoked many of them, but often, when I did, I also thought they tended to be blander and have a sameness to them compared to the aforementioned brands I was smoking. There were a few that I found agreeable, think one of the Hoyos, the Excalibur or Dark knight or something like that was a good one if I was buying one-the-run at a smaller shop. I see that the big cuban legacy brands are trying to make some inroads by hiring the successful blenders to develop lines, so maybe they're coming around, I just think bland when I think of them and not sure what it'll take to switch that opinion. I'm loath to try, I mean, there are a literal metric ton of really good NC's out there from other brands, brands I've been smoking already or are putting in the work to establish themselves, so why bother?

[amberleaf]

Last time I was holidaying in the DR I picked up a sampler box of the NC Cuban brands; RYJ, Monte, Upmann etc. They smoked extremely well with very good construction. Nothing really bad about them at all, other than they were pretty forgettable.