your top 3 cigar years over the past decade.

[El Presidente]

We discussed this on the deck on Friday and it led to an interesting discussion. 

In terms of boxed cigar production, how do you rank the last 10 years.  Where would 2019 fit in?

From the attached poll, give us your top 3 years over the past decade. 

 

 

[Rhinoww]

Great question for a newbie and happy to see 2019 represent. 

[NSXCIGAR]

Tough to say since we haven't seen the last of 19 production yet, but it's certainly on the right side of the curve. Is it the best year of the last 10? Don't know. Probably not. 12 and 14 were pretty darn good. I will say that there are more cigars in the catalog that are performing well than in 12 or 14 like Punch Punch, La Fuerza, Connie 1, Monte DE, JLS1/2, PSP2, and many more.

[danny]

2018, 2014, 2019 for me, in that order.  

 

IMO, 2014 showed a significant turn for the better in terms regular production overall 

 

Then things seemed to ebb & flow for awhile until 2018 hit and an even greater change than we saw in ‘14 happened; some of the most gorgeous wrappers I’ve ever seen stemming from what we heard was an amazing 2017 harvest.  

 

In 2018, the fantastic production continued, albeit not as amazing as the year prior, but I feel that the “sequels are never better than the original” mindset may have crept in and expectations became a bit high — as did the prices & hoarding tendencies which has had a lot of influence my opinion of things including this topic.    

 

Anyways, 2019 has continued the trend of pushing out great production, but again the factors mentioned above make it harder and harder to appreciate as I normally would (and should)

 

[Tstew75]

I will always have a soft spot for 12s (particularly MUR) & any 14.

I think 18/19 will go down as all time greats (UAO/MSU/LGR!). Wrappers have been nothing short of magic.

[ohbob976]

At what point is it determined that a given year is a good or bad year? 

[rascalmonkey]

2014 was a game changer - the ULA bolivars were just effortlessly amazing ... + affordable too

 

[El Presidente]

2014 will prove to be hard to beat. 2013  not too far behind

2019 will be right up there. I have seen plenty up to OCT 19 code  (7000 + boxes) and it will push for top 2. 

[ohbob976]

41 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

2014 will prove to be hard to beat. 2013  not too far behind

2019 will be right up there. I have seen plenty up to OCT 19 code  (7000 + boxes) and it will push for top 2. 

Would you say 2019 has been significantly more impressive then 2018? 

[El Presidente]

50 minutes ago, ohbob976 said:

Would you say 2019 has been significantly more impressive then 2018? 

Absolutely.  Particularly in comparison to the first half of 2018. 

[Chas.Alpha]

On 2/10/2020 at 12:59 PM, Rhinoww said:

Great question for a newbie and happy to see 2019 represent. 

The ‘19’s have been stunning, IMHO...

 

If you are someone with the means to “go long” on a production year, my bet from 4 years ago was the ‘18, ‘19 and ‘20’s. Living in South Florida, I am able (and interested) in watching the weather patterns. The harvests from 2017 and 2018 should have been great, as opposed to 2015 and 2016, where unseasonable rains effected the crops.

The weather this year has been perfect.

I wish I had signed on to the forum as “The Cigar Whisperer”... ?

 

[Fugu]

8 hours ago, ohbob976 said:

At what point is it determined that a given year is a good or bad year? 

legitimate question

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, ohbob976 said:

At what point is it determined that a given year is a good or bad year? 

98 and 99 were bad years. 

We haven't really had a bad year since. 

[Fugu]

I'd be really hard pushed to give a fair verdict on this. I honestly feel I am not in a position to answer that 'simple' question. Got excellent boxes from each of those years. But there is only so much stock that I could say I got of the same cigar and sampled evenly across all years, with box-to-box variability, which is making it hard to judge. And - to boot - there is less and less I am able to compare over the years, simply because a great many of old favorites fell out of production...

So consensus seems out for 2010/11 and 2016/17 to be the subperformers? Perhaps true, but then again, it always depends on the particular marca/vitola considered, and it would be a vast understatement to say that there had been some good examples from those very years, as well.

No love for 2010/11? I recall some greats falling into this period, such as Monte GE from 2010 coming to mind, 2010 also marking the start of the BHK-line (mind you, still considered as being the one-and-only by some), such a great BTO prod. for all things Cohiba, SPBeli from 2011 is bliss, also holding for Molinos, desDs, monster VRC and many, many more in 2011.

No love for 16/17? Why exactly would this be? - Couldn't get hold of any BHK, no Swinnies, no Monte Especial?! ... - well, instead smoke Monte Especiales No.2, HUPC, BCG, RyJChurch, Dip 2, duDep, Reyes or La Trova....! Just to mention a few. Some of their best examples during that period of time for me. Granted, production was low for some, as was availability of quality wrappers. But what had been made was solid, some even golden. The only striking thing I noticed were many subpar wrappers on the super premiums, such as SW and Espies, well into '18.

As for the more recent years it might be too early for a full verdict. Or do we just go by looks?

 

Finally, this poll will likely tend to show a bias for the more recent vintages as, by the nature of things, there will be relatively fewer folks here, who are / or have been smoking 2010, 2011 stock.

[El Presidente]

3 minutes ago, Fugu said:

The only striking thing I noticed were many subpar wrappers on the super premiums, such as SW and Espies, well into '18.

Would you agree that sub par wrappers on premiums would be a sign of lesser quality?

6 minutes ago, Fugu said:

As for the more recent years it might be too early for a full verdict. 

In terms of flavour, probably. In terms of quality, you can certainly make a call. 

7 minutes ago, Fugu said:

I

So consensus seems out for 2010/11 and 2016/17 to be the subperformers?

2010 and 2011 ...more 2010 was at the heart of the underfilling crisis.  It sticks in my craw to this day. As a lover of BBF, I recall SLB after SLB of BBF that almost felt hollow. 

2016 was a solid year.  Second half of 17 things started to fall away. 

[SenorPerfecto]

2014 will prove to be hard to beat. 2013  not too far behind
2019 will be right up there. I have seen plenty up to OCT 19 code  (7000 + boxes) and it will push for top 2. 

Can you guys get polls to show on Tapatalk?

[El Presidente]

5 minutes ago, SenorPerfecto said:

 

Can you guys get polls to show on Tapatalk?

 

Best to ask Tapatalk to see if they can get us to work on their site 

[ohbob976]

when people talk about best year. is it mostly construction and wrapper quality that get taken into account? or do you guys notice flavor of cigars being off during the not so great year. for example will a "psp" high quality offering from 2017 be just as flavorful as a "psp" high quality offering from 2014? 

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, ohbob976 said:

when people talk about best year. is it mostly construction and wrapper quality that get taken into account? or do you guys notice flavor of cigars being off during the not so great year. for example will a "psp" high quality offering from 2017 be just as flavorful as a "psp" high quality offering from 2014? 

My personal assessment is based on the three factors  of construction + flavour / enjoyment + leaf quality.

In general (for me) 2014 was a stronger year  than 2017 in terms of leaf quality, 2017 a nose just ahead in terms of construction, 2014 a touch head in terms of flavour/enjoyment.

Good boxes are good boxes regardless of year. 

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

3 minutes ago, Chas.Alpha said:

The harvests from 2017 and 2018 should have been great, as opposed to 2015 and 2016, where unseasonable rains effected the crops.

The weather this year has been perfect.

Hard to pinpoint based on harvests. Any given cigar uses leaves from multiple harvests. However with 17, 18 and now 19 finally confirmed as great harvests and 20 looking great heading into the final month it's almost guaranteed the next 2-4 years' production is going to be on the right side of the curve. 

[Fugu]

20 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Would you agree that sub par wrappers on premiums would be a sign of lesser quality?

I agree with most aspects you are adressing, Rob, sure, but that's in fact my point. Subpar wrappers on the Sir Winnie yet don't make for an overall poor "vintage" (it even doesn't have to mean a poor Swinnie, not telling any news here). At the same time we have seen fabulous wrappers on OR La Trova (end '17). And e.g. the final run of Boli Coronas Gigantes had been nothing short of spectacular, in terms of construction, burn and - in particular in terms of flavour. Great examples from allegedly "poor" years make it even harder - for me - to find a true crossectional benchmark against which to judge a year. And while production for a particular marca and format may be a miss for a given period, there's always another one that will shine (as we are at 1998, for instance, a year that saw some legendary Fundies. Just saying). In buying selective (and not caring about - and as such not seeing much - of the newer wide-formats), it is quite likely that the "good box" tends to get an over-representation in my stash compared to what the year's average would have to offer. I can only judge from there, from the smallish frame of things I get to see.

That's why I think such a poll is rather limited in its actual explanatory power. But it sure is fun anyway!

And if any, the greatest year will have been '13 well ahead of '14   

[Fugu]

5 hours ago, ohbob976 said:

when people talk about best year. is it mostly construction and wrapper quality that get taken into account? or do you guys notice flavor of cigars being off during the not so great year. for example will a "psp" high quality offering from 2017 be just as flavorful as a "psp" high quality offering from 2014? 

 

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Hard to pinpoint based on harvests.

Exactly! The final truth is in the smoking. People regurgitate a lot what they've heard and read about harvests, weather conditions, hurricanes and floodings... ditandat, and let's not forget what CA is saying...... But the loss of a part of the harvest doesn't automatically mean a general poor quality in the final product, neither does a limitation in A-class wrappers. It limits (certain) production. And finally, a volume-harvest alone doesn't make a good cigar. Add to that, that in difficult years (leaf shortages), production may be more relying on stocked bales set back in storage. So, it is tricky anyway for the consumer to relate boxed production to a certain set of particular harvests.

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Good boxes are good boxes regardless of year.

I guess, that's in a nutshell what I was trying to get across...

[El Presidente]

7 minutes ago, Fugu said:

I agree with most aspects you are adressing, Rob, sure, but that's in fact my point. Subpar wrappers on the Sir Winnie yet don't make for an overall poor "vintage" (it even doesn't have to mean a poor Swinnie, not telling any news here). At the same time we have seen fabulous wrappers on OR La Trova (end '17). And e.g. the final run of Boli Coronas Gigantes had been nothing short of spectacular, in terms of construction, burn and - in particular in terms of flavour. Great examples from allegedly "poor" years make it even harder - for me - to find a true crossectional benchmark against which to judge a year. And while production for a particular marca and format may be a miss for a given period, there's always another one that will shine (as we are at 1998, for instance, a year that saw some legendary Fundies. Just saying). In buying selective (and not caring about - and as such not seeing much - of the newer wide-formats), it is quite likely that the "good box" tends to get an over-representation in my stash compared to what the year's average would have to offer. I can only judge from there, from the smallish frame of things I get to see.

That's why I think such a poll is rather limited in its actual explanatory power. But it sure is fun anyway!

And if any, the greatest year will have been '13 well ahead of '14   

I don't disagree with you at all 

Again, there hasn't been a truly bad year since 98/99. 

However, they pay farmers in part on quality. That in itself says something.

In 2017/18 they largely ran out of large quality leaf reserves and you saw the result in some Winnies/Esplendidos and the simple abandonment of production is some lines. 

What they put out in some cigars in 2018 was simply subpar. 

 

[Fugu]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

What they put out in some cigars in 2018 was simply subpar.

Ok, that's obviously what I didn't buy (and I didn't buy a lot of 2018, not sure why....haha )

[Chas.Alpha]

41 minutes ago, Fugu said:

 

Exactly! The final truth is in the smoking. People regurgitate a lot what they've heard and read about harvests, weather conditions, hurricanes and floodings... ditandat, and let's not forget what CA is saying...... But the loss of a part of the harvest doesn't automatically mean a general poor quality in the final product, neither does a limitation in A-class wrappers. It limits (certain) production. And finally, a volume-harvest alone doesn't make a good cigar. Add to that, that in difficult years (leaf shortages), production may be more relying on stocked bales set back in storage. So, it is tricky anyway for the consumer to relate boxed production to a certain set of particular harvests.

I guess, that's in a nutshell what I was trying to get across...

Nothing other than an opinion, just seems that the years following bad harvests have produced less than stellar cigars on average, whereas the good harvests (i.e. 17, 18 and 19) seemingly have produced amazing smokes.

Ultimately, one must agree with the statement from Fearless Leader. A great box is a great box.

I don’t have the good fortune to have opening master cases of cigars as part of my job description! ?