time for cheika to go

[Ken Gargett]

saw an interesting article from greg crowden that it was time to sack chieka. he is spot on. it has been a disaster. all very well to say who else is there but it no longer matters. anyone. try anything. give them time. we are crap now so why not? give wayne bennett a call. he'll be free soon. 

his record is 49 tests for 25 wins. 51%. that might be terrific if you are coaching scotland - no offence - but so not acceptable coaching the wallabies. awful.

after this coming weekend, it will be 25 from 50. 

so many endless absurd selection stuff-ups. i do not care who - get rid of foley. try anyone. the pooper experiment. spare me. phibbs as the back up half. why? what divinity did we offend? 

and of those 25 wins, how many against top nations - 

nz - 2 out of ten. at least one, i think both, were the last game in a dead rubber. soon to be 2 from 11. 

ireland - 1 out of 5. ireland!!!!! there was a time, not long ago, ireland was used to blood promising players, to tweak training methods. not to lose. 

england - 1 from 7. lord, i remember being embarrassed that england had beaten the reds in a tour game a while back. 

south africa - 2 from 5. and that is about to get significantly worse. 

france - 1 from 2.

scotland - 2 from 4. you could not make that up. and worse, one of those was because the ref dudded scotland. it should be 3-1. our two wins were by a single point each. and last time they put fifty points on us. the shame...

the only top nations we seem able to beat are argentina and wales. mind you, so does everyone else. 

people say well he got us to the world cup final. well big whoop. the draw meant we had to beat scotland. which we only did because the ref had a howler. and then argentina. so the first time we are challenged in the finals, we are done. 

how can this be allowed to persist?

time for cheika and all the sycophants at rugby australia to go. 

cheika is making the toxic hobbit look good. 

[Fuzz AI]

I've been saying Cheika needs to go for years. Here is Cheika's record (as of June 2018).

Record by Country

Opponent	Played	Won	Drew	Lost	Win ratio (%)	For	Against
Argentina	6	6	0	0	100%	214	105
England	7	1	0	6	14%	152	212
Fiji	2	2	0	0	100%	65	27
France	2	1	0	1	50%	51	52
Ireland	5	1	0	4	20%	102	108
Italy	1	1	0	0	100%	40	27
Japan	1	1	0	0	100%	63	30
New Zealand	9	2	0	7	22%	170	309
Scotland	4	2	0	2	50%	77	80
South Africa	5	2	2	1	50% a	107	105
United States	1	1	0	0	100%	47	10
Uruguay	1	1	0	0	100%	65	3
Wales	4	4	0	0	100%	109	63
TOTAL	48	25	2	21	54.2% a	1286	1184

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Fuzz said:

I've been saying Cheika needs to go for years. Here is Cheika's record.

Record by Country

Opponent	Played	Won	Drew	Lost	Win ratio (%)	For	Against
Argentina	6	6	0	0	100%	214	105
England	7	1	0	6	14%	152	212
Fiji	2	2	0	0	100%	65	27
France	2	1	0	1	50%	51	52
Ireland	5	1	0	4	20%	102	108
Italy	1	1	0	0	100%	40	27
Japan	1	1	0	0	100%	63	30
New Zealand	9	2	0	7	22%	170	309
Scotland	4	2	0	2	50%	77	80
South Africa	5	2	2	1	50% a	107	105
United States	1	1	0	0	100%	47	10
Uruguay	1	1	0	0	100%	65	3
Wales	4	4	0	0	100%	109	63
TOTAL	48	25	2	21	54.2% a	1286	1184

fuzz, that does not include last weekend. 

[mikeyjb]

Ken,

 

Its the same in any sport here. Keeping out of form players and staff. Refusing to look at fresh new talent over old players and staff.

 

Simply the ability to retain your role requires a certain level of performance. Forget these multi year contracts.

 

Cricket is hopeless as well... so many talented players growing old unable to get into the national team. How many innings of under 10 runs do we have to put up with.

 

Ditch the multi year contracts, put in place performance based contracts.

 

 

 

Sent from my Android using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[Fuzz AI]

2 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

fuzz, that does not include last weekend. 

Nope, it does not. It is only as of June 2018.

Last weekend was just another nail in the coffin.You'd think they'd have run out of nails by now.

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, Fuzz said:

Nope, it does not. It is only as of June 2018.

Last weekend was just another nail in the coffin.You'd think they'd have run out of nails by now.

also, those for/against are way off. scotland have scored 133 in their four tests with cheika in charge. we have scored 100. our defence allows 33++ points per game from scotland. this nation should be so embarrassed that our entire parliament should fall on their swords. literally. please? 

[Ken Gargett]

5 minutes ago, mikeyjayjay said:

Ken,

 

Its the same in any sport here. Keeping out of form players and staff. Refusing to look at fresh new talent over old players and staff.

 

Simply the ability to retain your role requires a certain level of performance. Forget these multi year contracts.

 

Cricket is hopeless as well... so many talented players growing old unable to get into the national team. How many innings of under 10 runs do we have to put up with.

 

Ditch the multi year contracts, put in place performance based contracts.

 

 

 

Sent from my Android using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

which makes sense but they are too scared they will lose talent to indian 20/20 crap or to northern hemisphere or japanese sides. 

[JohnS]

Michael Cheika should go but so should the Australia Rugby CEO, Raelene Castle. Then we will be on your journey towards improvement.

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, JohnS said:

Michael Cheika should go but so should the Australia Rugby CEO, Raelene Castle. Then we will be on your journey towards improvement.

john, the mindboggling stupidity for putting a netballer, from new zealand, in charge of rugby in australia is just beyond belief. mind you her predecessors over the last decade or two have hardly distinguished themselves. 

but especially after she completely stuffed up the bulldogs. she might not have been solely to blame for that, but winnie the pooh could have seen the red flags a mile off. not us. 

[El Presidente]

You don't change unless you have a replacement 

...a better one. 

...there is none currently

[Fuzz AI]

5 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

You don't change unless you have a replacement 

...a better one. 

...there is none currently

Surely we can find an under 16s coach that can do a better job?

[Ken Gargett]

4 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

You don't change unless you have a replacement 

...a better one. 

...there is none currently

no. just as well we didn't do a vid today because we would not have agreed on this.

that argument is fair enough while you give the bloke a chance. he has had way way more than that. and he has failed spectacularly. search the world. i just do not believe that there is no one better. 

he is ridiculously loyal to incompetents. selections are absurd. there is never a plan B. his style of coaching is the fire and brimstone motivation and that only goes so far. that wallaby side on saturday looked like they wanted to be elsewhere. when did you last see that. our record could hardly be worse. sure, other reasons but he is the guy who ultimately takes responsibility.

a friend from nsw - former rugby tragic - emailed me today. his daughter goes out with someone involved with the waratahs. not sure if a player or what. he was told on the quiet that they did not practice line-outs. apparently they normally do not. i find that extremely hard to believe but this bloke is the last guy in the planet to suggest something like that if not true. and the line-out on saturday did look like they had never trained. 

even if you honestly think you cannot find a better coach, it is now time to give the best candidate a go. give someone else a chance to see if they can step up. there is no point in more of the same. 

[El Presidente]

It is the culture first. 

Our Captain said to the ref that the consistent infringements are forcing the Wallabies to go for goal.  No you idiot...that is your choice. 

It is the cattle second 

We don't have 2  number 10's let alone a half dozen of them as NZ does.  We are relying on a half in Genia who wouldn't make the top 6  sides. He is keeping out a replacement (Phipps) who would only maybe make Japan's national side.  

It is the skill set third. 

Not enough skills training and true competition in juniors. Aussie steel in Rugby was never forged under pressure.  Two good club games and you are a red/Warratah.  3 good games and you are a Wallaby. 

 

[El Presidente]

7 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

emailed me today. his daughter goes out with someone involved with the waratahs. not sure if a player or what. he was told on the quiet that they did not practice line-outs. apparently they normally do not. i find that extremely hard to believe but this bloke is the last guy in the planet to suggest something like that if not true. and the line-out on saturday did look like they had never trained. 

 

That's a straight fib Ken. 

90% of our lineout issues relate to the fact none of our hookers can throw in consistently. 

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, El Presidente said:

It is the culture first. 

Our Captain said to the ref that the consistent infringements are forcing the Wallabies to go for goal.  No you idiot...that is your choice. 

It is the cattle second 

We don't have 2  number 10's let alone a half dozen of them as NZ does.  We are relying on a half in Genia who wouldn't make the top 6  sides. He is keeping out a replacement (Phipps) who would only maybe make Japan's national side.  

It is the skill set third. 

Not enough skills training and true competition in juniors. Aussie steel in Rugby was never forged under pressure.  To good club games and you are a red/Warratah.  3 good games and you are a Wallaby. 

 

not sure why you have such a low opinion of japan.

no argument with any of that (except poor japan) but this is the state of aussie rugby after five years of cheika. or four or whatever. that has to be unacceptable. cheika shoved hooper in as captain. decent player, a shadow compared to pocock and someone who seems to think he is a number 8, not a flanker, most of the time, despite being half the requisite size, but has never shown the slightest idea of captaincy. that is cheika. 

the culture is cheika. 

sure, the cattle are dodgy but with better coaching, better direction, a better culture, perhaps we'd see the cattle perform at a higher level. 

skill set. lord spare me.

and we have both long agreed on the lack of competition at lower levels. 

but with cheika as coach, does anyone on the planet, bar him, really think there'll be a different result? 

[Ken Gargett]

4 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

That's a straight fib Ken. 

90% of our lineout issues relate to the fact none of our hookers can throw in consistently. 

i would assume so as well, and this bloke is only relating what he was told, but such a strange thing to say. and he really is the most unlikely person to suggest it unless he believes at least a kernel of truth. but i cannot believe that there was nothing done. 

the throwing was atrocious but the entire line-out was a disaster. not just the throwing. but cheika pulls in TPN from overseas. good player but he has not thrown to anyone in the team for a year. 

[El Presidente]

We have changed coaches to no avail. 

Cheika turned around Leinster to Heineken Semi finals second year and then a finals win. Their first ever.  Tahs to a super 15 Rugby win. 

The guy can coach. I am not against changing him,  I would just like to get a better coach first. 

You really could get the rugby equivalent of Belichick and it would make no difference.  The AB spine of front row,  8 /half/10/15 are vastly superior. 

I don't think any Aussie player would make a combined team. Maybe Pocock (on the bench at least). 

Who were the left out Wallabies who should have been there on Saturday?  I can't think of any where their omission appeared to be a travesty. 

[Ken Gargett]

17 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

We have changed coaches to no avail. 

Cheika turned around Leinster to Heineken Semi finals second year and then a finals win. Their first ever.  Tahs to a super 15 Rugby win. 

The guy can coach. I am not against changing him,  I would just like to get a better coach first. 

You really could get the rugby equivalent of Belichick and it would make no difference.  The AB spine of front row,  8 /half/10/15 are vastly superior. 

I don't think any Aussie player would make a combined team. Maybe Pocock (on the bench at least). 

Who were the left out Wallabies who should have been there on Saturday?  I can't think of any where their omission appeared to be a travesty. 

has a good record pre wallabies, undoubtedly. but perhaps that was his limit. no other coach we have had for a very long time has such a poor record. 

i think pocock would be in the combined team and probably izzy (imagine him with a better team around him) so yes, that is a major issue. but is our cattle so poor that the same can be said when one looks at the english, scottish, french, south africans... we are not that bad. easy to say that no coach would get us over the kiwis and i think that is true. i do not believe it is true about the other nations. 

the other thing this bloke told my mate was that cheika plays favourites. mind you, that comes as no surprise to anyone, i suspect. the example he told my mate was arnold. cheika does not like him. fair to say he was the form second rower in the super rugby for us. no sign of him in the 23? 

i always believed, still do, that bob dwyer had his limitations but at least he went out and found players. horan, little, kearns and others. not everyone worked. there is none of that here. or perhaps hannigan, but that was an experiment that should have ended moments after it began. he just sticks with players who have not worked. no one can tell me that foley has been a success. phibbs? hooper as captain? hooper ahead of pocock. is izzy our best fullback or should he try wing or centre? you think a belicheck would not have made moves, tried something? 

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

john, the mindboggling stupidity for putting a netballer, from new zealand, in charge of rugby in australia is just beyond belief. mind you her predecessors over the last decade or two have hardly distinguished themselves. 

but especially after she completely stuffed up the bulldogs. she might not have been solely to blame for that, but winnie the pooh could have seen the red flags a mile off. not us. 

Yes. That's right, she completely failed at the Bulldogs and her reward was to take on Australian Rugby? It makes no sense!

In regards to Cheika, I feel too that he is a good coach, it's just like all sports really...he's had his time and we need someone new. Rob has a point though, who exactly can we get to replace Cheika and turn the culture of Australian Rugby around?

[El Presidente]

Give me three players who deserve to walk into that Saturday night Wallabies team today? Just three. 

I can't think of one. 

30 players on the field and by your accounts "2" would make the combined squad.  It is a miracle it was 6-5 at halftime. 

Ireland have a better spine than us. They are a better team as a result. 

England Likewise. 

I am pretty sure we are around the same line as Wales/South Africa.   That is just reality. 

Unless you can fix the opening line of this post, Jesus himself would be on anti-depressants if he had to coach that rabble against the AB.  

Cheika doesn't run the ARU. He asked Thorne to keep Cooper in the loop. Thorne rightfully said no. The ARU asked. Thorne rightfully said no.  That shows how much pull Cheika or the ARU have with the State organisations.

There lies a big part of the problem.  An anaemic head office trying to run disjointed states.  

 

 

[99call]

It's pretty hard to build anything on shifting sand, and in listening to nearly all of Cheika's post match interviews,  he's a man who is utterly at odds with himself.  He'll make a short statement about farming a team mantra of no wingeing, then proceed to whine for the next half hour.   He's had to go for a long time, as you've all stated, but I don't understand why you guys feel empty handed at finding possible other options. 

Vern Cotter,  one of the main reasons Scotland has been able to put Aussie to the sword on recent occasion, is a brilliants coach. And I can only assume ego is your only mental block to approaching someone like that. 

I think ego is, also a stumbling block of realising where you are.    Yes it seems like Aussie are very much out of sorts, but NEWSFLASH Scotland, England and Ireland have played some good rugby against you.  Ireland are currently a better outfit than the Aussie team, but I also think they would give some of your great teams of the past a good crack. 

I like many on here, think you need a clean slate, and to accept, for a certain period of time, you may even lose by bigger margins, but it has to start at some point. 

Just as it's really good to see the return of SA from the rugby abyss, I also hope you guys come good sooner rather than later. 

[Ken Gargett]

52 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

has a good record pre wallabies, undoubtedly. but perhaps that was his limit. no other coach we have had for a very long time has such a poor record. 

i think pocock would be in the combined team and probably izzy (imagine him with a better team around him) so yes, that is a major issue. but is our cattle so poor that the same can be said when one looks at the english, scottish, french, south africans... we are not that bad. easy to say that no coach would get us over the kiwis and i think that is true. i do not believe it is true about the other nations. 

the other thing this bloke told my mate was that cheika plays favourites. mind you, that comes as no surprise to anyone, i suspect. the example he told my mate was arnold. cheika does not like him. fair to say he was the form second rower in the super rugby for us. no sign of him in the 23? 

i always believed, still do, that bob dwyer had his limitations but at least he went out and found players. horan, little, kearns and others. not everyone worked. there is none of that here. or perhaps hannigan, but that was an experiment that should have ended moments after it began. he just sticks with players who have not worked. no one can tell me that foley has been a success. phibbs? hooper as captain? hooper ahead of pocock. is izzy our best fullback or should he try wing or centre? you think a belicheck would not have made moves, tried something? 

sorry, will revert. people have just turned up with great champagnes. packing for overseas now in chaos. 

[mikeyjb]

10 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

packing for overseas now in chaos. 

It's not too hard or time consuming to throw some clothes in a bag

Women are a different story

[ayepatz]

4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

his record is 49 tests for 25 wins. 51%. that might be terrific if you are coaching scotland - no offence - but so not acceptable coaching the wallabies. awful.

 

None taken. We are currently punching well above our historical weight, long may it continue! ????????

Scotland’s all time win record is 43.05%.

Scotland Head Coach Gregor Townsend is currently on 64%, the highest win ratio since Ian McGeechan’s first stint of 58%.

Townsend’s predecessor, Vern Cotter, managed 53%.

His predecessor, (Scotland’s current Director of Rugby), Scott Johnson (an Aussie) managed only 31%, but he was only engaged as an interim appointment at a very difficult time. His move up to senior management has been great for Scottish Rugby, as the above stats bear out.

 

[99call]

6 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

Vern Cotter, managed 53%.

Whats your thoughts on Vern, Iain?   He struck me as a very stable, calm, slow boil strategist, and one who is happy to outsource skills he doesn't possess (something Eddie Jones finds difficult). 

I think the days of a Head coach are over.  It's the era of the Team Manager.   Hanson, Gatland, are brilliant at this (Gatland to a lesser degree). Almost creating a grey dispassionate veil over the whole squad and coaching staff. It helps them control the narrative.  Eddie Jones, likes the sound of his own voice too much, to have the discipline to do this. 

Maybe Schmit would be a more creative tactical choice