Behikes

[Fugu]

3 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

Are they only made at laguito?

Tricky question as there have been rumours of BHKs occasionally having been rolled elsewhere (Partagas I think it was) and then being relocated to EL for packing and stamping....(rumours ). That said, I have yet only seen EL factory codes on BKHs.

3 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

As the OP, I'm seeing lots of "opinions" here.

True indeed, a lot of opinion here. I will add mine:

Taste is a subjective thing, and it may indeed be the case that the blend, or more adequately put, the particular tobacco qualities and their contribution to the genuine blend have varied over the years - as basically happens to vitolas of all marcas from time to time. Crop variability and production inconsistency, folks... . But to think that the Medio Tiempo leaf is critical for the taste quality of said sticks is too simplistic, to not say naive. First of all - why shouldn't they have used MT in the production after 2010 (as claimed by some)? MT is far from being a rare leaf. It is only "rare" because there isn't much decent use for it, so it isn't much grown. This leaf, when it is going to develop later in the season, is even being actively removed from plants during the pruning processes. Why? - because it is undesired. But if you need it, it's not at all tricky to be grown. Way more demanding to produce fine wrapper leaf. As others have stated - claims of the kind "the rare and unique medio tiempo" are not much more than marketing. Second, MT is essentially adding strength to the blend. Much less so for adding flavour and complexity. The idea behind BHK is - or has originally been - to produce such a flavourful cigar that it can - even - bear a Medio Tiempo leaf, or half a leaf, in the blend for giving such a cigar balance and depth. Like a good and rich in extract wine can handle a higher alcohol grade. That's all, no secret pixie dust. So, aside from MT being mainly a marketing ploy, there is still a core of reason to proclaim it positively, in that its use can be taken as a proxy for the basic flavour quality and intensity of a blend, while - like alcohol in wine or salt in a meal - its sheer use alone sais pretty little.

When we have now seen a longer hiatus in BHK production, I'd even go so far as to say that this has NOT been due to a lack of Medio Tiempo. If at all, an alleged omission of MT in the blend would have been the result of other leaf qualities lacking, so that use of MT would have caused an imbalance to the blend that wouldn't cope with such strength. And if against all odds they couldn't grow MT, I'd say it could have been quite easily replaced by a stronger ligero quality from the upper primings (mind you MT is nothing else than a strong, topmost ligero leaf), without compromising much of the general smoking characteristics of those cigars. At least in the wider-girth BHK siblings, the 54 and 56, that could've been balanced quite easily by taking in a bit more ligero.

I wonder how many here in this thread smoke Behike so regularly that they are truly in a position to come to a general conclusion of a basic blend change after 2010. I am not one of them.

Suggestion for some further reading:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/topic/113767-the-cohiba-behike-project/

https://thedirtyashes.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/the-cohiba-behike-project-final-results/

 

[Mattb82]

32 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Tricky question as there have been rumours of BHKs occasionally having been rolled elsewhere (Partagas I think it was) and then being relocated to EL for packing and stamping....(rumours ). That said, I have yet only seen EL factory codes on BKHs.

True indeed, a lot of opinion here. I will add mine:

Taste is a subjective thing, and it may indeed be the case that the blend, or more adequately put, the particular tobacco qualities and their contribution to the genuine blend have varied over the years - as basically happens to vitolas of all marcas from time to time. Crop variability and production inconsistency, folks... . But to think that the Medio Tiempo leaf is critical for the taste quality of said sticks is too simplistic, to not say naive. First of all - why shouldn't they have used MT in the production after 2010 (as claimed by some)? MT is far from being a rare leaf. It is only "rare" because there isn't much decent use for it, so it isn't much grown. This leaf, when it is going to develop later in the season, is even being actively removed from plants during the pruning processes. Why? - because it is undesired. But if you need it, it's not at all tricky to be grown. Way more demanding to produce fine wrapper leaf. As others have stated - claims of the kind "the rare and unique medio tiempo" are not much more than marketing. Second, MT is essentially adding strength to the blend. Much less so for adding flavour and complexity. The idea behind BHK is - or has originally been - to produce such a flavourful cigar that it can - even - bear a Medio Tiempo leaf, or half a leaf, in the blend for giving such a cigar balance and depth. Like a good and rich in extract wine can handle a higher alcohol grade. That's all, no secret pixie dust. So, aside from MT being mainly a marketing ploy, there is still a core of reason to proclaim it positively, in that its use can be taken as a proxy for the basic flavour quality and intensity of a blend, while - like alcohol in wine or salt in a meal - its sheer use alone sais pretty little.

When we have now seen a longer hiatus in BHK production, I'd even go so far as to say that this has NOT been due to a lack of Medio Tiempo. If at all, an alleged omission of MT in the blend would have been the result of other leaf qualities lacking, so that use of MT would have caused an imbalance to the blend that wouldn't cope with such strength. And if against all odds they couldn't grow MT, I'd say it could have been quite easily replaced by a stronger ligero quality from the upper primings (mind you MT is nothing else than a strong, topmost ligero leaf), without compromising much of the general smoking characteristics of those cigars. At least in the wider-girth BHK siblings, the 54 and 56, that could've been balanced quite easily by taking in a bit more ligero.

I wonder how many here in this thread smoke Behike so regularly that they are truly in a position to come to a general conclusion of a basic blend change after 2010. I am not one of them.

Suggestion for some further reading:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/topic/113767-the-cohiba-behike-project/

https://thedirtyashes.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/the-cohiba-behike-project-final-results/

 

Outstanding!

[Bartolomeo]

7 hours ago, Islandboy said:

Interesting that a simple inquiry on a certain cigar by the OP has devolved into a character examination. But I guess for some, that just goes with the indulging and subjective nature of our hobby.

I can’t speak for anyone but myself, so in a way, can’t answer your broad question. Personally, I’ve only had 2 behikes thus far, a 52 from the box that my boss gifted me a year ago, and a recent 54 that absolutely blew me away - also given to me. I find the profile very pleasurable. But then my first and most memorable CC was a CoRo, and the BHK’s I’ve experienced have been like a CoRo on steroids, so I guess I’m a bit biased.

From the pure perspective of value, I don’t think anyone can argue the fact that Behikes rank pretty low. And I’m sure many find the mystique alone attractive. But then there doesn’t seem to be any shortage of those who happily drop significantly more dough on an 8 year old box of (fill in the blank). It’s all part of the game we love, isn’t it?

I envy those brothers who have been fortunate enough to experience the legend that is the OR in 2010. I’m certain by all accounts that it was magnificent. Just try not to throw shade on the rest of us for taking a roll of the dice. It’s just a cigar, after all.

 

No shade thrown, just asking Matt his opinion about his post....all good here

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

I wonder how many here in this thread smoke Behike so regularly that they are truly in a position to come to a general conclusion of a basic blend change after 2010. I am not one of them.

 

This is my question. I wonder what % of Finished Behikes have actually been smoked vs. bought, resold, traded, resold again, than stuffed in a coolidor. Is it 10%, 20%? Does anybody here on FOH smoke Behike regularly, even 1 a month? I've never had one and I've only smoked about a dozen Cohiba in my entire life, I'm not buying cigars for the packaging. I dont need to smoke them to tell you one thing unequivocally, I would much rather smoke 10 Fonseca 1s than a single Behike 54 for the same amount of money. I don't care if there is leaf from Fidels private Finca in the blend, Behikes are not worth the price, they (and most of the RE/EL trend) are targeted to people wit more money than brains. HSA must pay 4 or 5 (or 10) times as much to import the special Behike boxes and bands than they pay for the actual tobacco and rolling process. @Fugu's breakdown of the MT leaf is great, its just the tippy top ligero leaf, typically trimmed early in the growing process to allow the other Ligero leafs to receive more sun/nutrients. Not really exceptional in and of itself. 

Now, to the OPs questions.  I can Echo the above, I have heard some Behike were once rolled at Partagas, but well probably never know for sure. A shortage of sufficient wrapper leaf is a much more logical reason for the absence of Behike, again, its much easier to grow Miedo Tiempo than Cohiba grade wrapper leaf. As Pres said, it makes a lot more sense (ROI wise) to use your best quality wrapper for BHK before say CORO or Sig IV, so maybe there is something else going on. 

 

[shlomo]

Quickly becoming one of my favorite threads. "I don't smoke cigars, but here is how I feel about them!!"

Where is SC when you need him?

[Corylax18]

About half way down, the "creator" of Behike speaks to the Medio Tiempo leaf. The article is a bit contradictory though. It says "medio tiempo had fallen out of general use because it was rare and only grew on 10% to 15% of plants." Then the next sentence says they had been stuffing what MT they grew into domestic cigars prior to 2010. Where have I heard that Narrative before? 

"These wrapper leafs are much too thick/robust/dark to use for export cigars."

"Well, we're out of regular wrapper leaf."

"Oh, Ok. Then lets wrap some export cigars with that rough, thick wrapper, give em a special band, than charge 2 or 3 times as much for them." 

" Perfect!! Lets call them "Limited Editions" they'll sell like hotcakes!

Marketing 101

[joeypots]

Here's a quick sampling of current prices, I hope this is OK to post. Just to make sure everyone understands how much these things cost. I simply don't buy cigars that are this expensive.

 Cohiba - Behike BHK 52
 4.7 X 52
 Box of 10      $ 807.00      
 
Cohiba - Behike BHK 54
  5.7X 54
Box of 10          $ 1012.00 

Cohiba - Behike BHK 56
 6.5X 56
 Box of 10          $ 1134.00  

[Islandboy]

1 hour ago, Bartolomeo said:

No shade thrown, just asking Matt his opinion about his post....all good here

Sorry, that comment was more in reference to the original reply from @ericdriscoll. I should’ve made that clear.

[anacostiakat]

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Plenty of blokes who don't smoke more than once or twice a week, work hard and want the best there is. To their mind that equates to Cohiba/Behike. They have the coin, good luck to them. 

Generally they are not box buyers, just pop on through and pick up a couple. They wouldn't even know "flipping" is a thing 

  Ahhh.  Ok.  Another case of applying your own tendencies to everyone.

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, wabashcr said:

There were anecdotal reports during the leaner times that Behikes were being produced in other factories, which I never understood.  I

Not anecdotal. 

They clearly came out and said a special unit would be set up at Partagas to exclusively roll Behike. EL couldn't keep up with the demand.   If I remember correctly it ended up being 20 top end rollers. All boxes be they made at Partagas or El Laguito were/are stamped the same. 

In this instance, subterfuge was assumed by some on the net. Before you knew it......it was a major secret exposed 

 

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, ericdriscoll said:

This is not how medio tiempo is grown, cultivated nor blended. You've fabricated an entire narrative whole cloth in the absence of any real understanding of tobacco. And it is also obvious you've never even had a casual conversation with a Cuban tobacco farmer. You've essentially made stuff up and done so in a very long winded post. Go to Remedio y Partido and learn something rather than posting falsehoods about a leaf you know nearly nothing about. This is not a matter of opinion.

State the facts and less vitriol please. Play the ball and not the man. illuminate not defecate. 

[Fugu]

8 hours ago, ericdriscoll said:

This is not a matter of opinion.

Should this be directed at me - good to have at least one member on board who provides facts and nothing but facts. Seriously, have we read anything else than opinion from you up to here, Eric? You are making bold general statements, also in other recent threads (Punch Punch being crap for the past half decade, Connie1s being crap following 2011, members to suffer self-delusion etc.), which read more like trolling in their uncalled-for tone. No offence intended, but this is how it is coming across, to me at least. MEG-coded Connie1 - that is, H.Upmann mother factory - coming from the "worst factory" of Cuba, anyone? You toss out the unproven as fact and then choose to ignore further queries by members directly addressed at you, and now, it appears you are insinuating medio tiempo for BHK is grown in Remedios and Partido, do I get that right? Ok, learn something new every day.

8 hours ago, ericdriscoll said:

This is not how medio tiempo is grown, cultivated nor blended.

Ok, so would you mind and enlighten us then - how is it done? This thread is not about who's got the best private information, not a contest to be won here. It is about sharing info and bringing substance to the debate. If you can contribute such, and if you have a deeper insight into the matter, as you claim, then please, by all means - go ahead!

[vinnyvega]

A popular vendor had RAE 15 and EAG 14 listed for behikes. 

[dgixxer252525]

Awesome thread! Please keep the FACTS coming fugu

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, vinnyvega said:

A popular vendor had RAE 15 and EAG 14 listed for behikes. 

I have never seen either on Behike. If there are boxes sporting those codes, would love to see a photograph 

[jerrybrowne]

22 hours ago, Bartolomeo said:

Honest question, do you really think many people love the Behike profile?....or do they love the mystique, shiny band, etc about it? Asking in all seriousness because the crowd I run with don't buy these cigars for many reasons but mostly because there are better choices out there for the coin and the blend is ok at best recently. I know cigars are subjective to everybody, there is no right or wrong. I tend to see people fairly recent to cigars chasing these Behikes but in a blind comparison with other sticks Behikes can't compete on profile, forgetting about price....just curious

I can honestly say that I'm a big fan of the Behike profile which for me oozes honey flavors among others.  Back when a box of 52s were running in the $3-$400 range, I'd buy by the box and smoke 1 every other week. Would not do that now given current pricing which is just crazy.

[uscmd310]

Without a doubt, Behike still contains medio tiempo. However it is not the same blend as first release in 2010. Especially so for the BHK56. With a limited supply of medio tiempo they had to alter (rightly or wrongly) amount of medio tiempo in the blend. We cut the "Behike" anytime we suspect a fake and its terribly easy to see as a rough, very dark(almost black) leaf. In my uneducated opinion, this 2010 blend is much better. The new ones are very watered down.

 

This information is from the creator.  You can also ask him yourself, 

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009706805747

[Head83]

21 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I would guess they are in the top 20 cigars sold in any B&M selling Cuban cigars. Certainly ours. This doesn't include online. 

*When they were available. 

Prez,

 

If you were to get BHKs in, would we see them on a 24:24 sale or up in the online store?

[El Presidente]

4 hours ago, Head83 said:

Prez,

 

If you were to get BHKs in, would we see them on a 24:24 sale or up in the online store?

backorders first. 

24:24 second

Store third. 

Depends on the quantity.  I wouldn't be worrying at this point 

[GrouchoMarx]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

backorders first. 

24:24 second

Store third. 

Depends on the quantity.  I wouldn't be worrying at this point 

Backorders?

We can have something on backorder? How?

Also - what are the odds of the backorder being filled in, say, 6 months?

[wabashcr]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Not anecdotal. 

They clearly came out and said a special unit would be set up at Partagas to exclusively roll Behike. EL couldn't keep up with the demand.   If I remember correctly it ended up being 20 top end rollers. All boxes be they made at Partagas or El Laguito were/are stamped the same. 

In this instance, subterfuge was assumed by some on the net. Before you knew it......it was a major secret exposed 

 

Interesting.  The last bit is definitely what I remember from it.