Trump Cuba Policy Announcement

[Smallclub]

53 minutes ago, semifan1 said:

I'm pretty sure prices for CC's are more expensive everyplace, but Cuba.

Not necessarily: certain distributors get low prices that allow them to resell (mostly online) at a lower price than Cuba's while making a profit.

[gweilgi]

On 6/17/2017 at 0:02 PM, semifan1 said:

This pretty much sums me up.I have a clearance working in the middle east. I can go into Dubai for $400 a night live it up there and buy all the CC I want. I would like to hit Cuba up one day, but when it is more developed. I've have had my times of going to 3rd world countries.

The one exception to this might be the cruise ship industry.  Very popular with Americans, I understand, and I could see them going for a cruise that includes Havana...

[BrightonCorgi]

On 6/17/2017 at 10:07 AM, semifan1 said:

I do need a clearance for work since it's for the government.

A Visa for working in UAE and Clearance for the kind of work you are doing I take it, no?   Tourists do not need a visa to visit UAE and in Abu Dhabi, Americans clear customs in Abu Dhabi...  Getting off the plane from Abu Dhabi is just like a domestic flight.

[semifan1]

31 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

A Visa for working in UAE and Clearance for the kind of work you are doing I take it, no?   Tourists do not need a visa to visit UAE and in Abu Dhabi, Americans clear customs in Abu Dhabi...  Getting off the plane from Abu Dhabi is just like a domestic flight.

I don't work in the U.A.E or live there, were I work requires me to have a clearance and poly meaning if travel is not allowed to Cuba and it comes up on my polygraph that I went someplace off limits there could be problems. Hence why I would wait until things are resolved and with Cuba. I can Travel to Dubai when I want and for 400 a night have a good time in Dubai. Instead of spending at a hotel in Cuba, yes I know there are cheaper options I'm only going with what I quoted the guy in the previous posts, not in general.

[wabashcr]

The thing that really baffles me about this is that opinion among Cuban American voters in Florida has been rapidly shifting.  According to the 2016 FIU Cuba Poll, which is widely considered the leading Cuban American political study, 63% of Cuban Americans in Miami oppose the embargo, and 57% support increasing economic relations between the US and Cuba.  Those numbers rise sharply among Cuban Americans aged 18-59, and also poll higher among new arrivals.  

Yes, for much of the period since the revolution, Cuban exiles have supported a hard line stance against the Castro government.  And that made for a significant voting bloc in one of the most important swing states in US presidential elections.  But it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.  Most Cuban Americans aren't old enough to remember living through the missile crisis.  They just see a poor country crippled by 60 years of stubbornness on both sides.  I just don't think the hardliners are enough of a factor anymore to make this a smart political play.

I know that loosening the restrictions under Obama probably took some of the pressure off the Castro government.  And the government is probably reaping most of the benefits of the policy changes.  But what we were doing before clearly wasn't working.  It's time for something different.  The Cuban people have suffered enough.  They'll continue to suffer until there's some kind of meaningful regime change.  But if we can't force that to happen peacefully (and we obviously can't), why not try to help mitigate a bad situation any way we can?

I'm beyond frustrated with this latest development.  I'm tired of living in a country (or a world) run by people who don't give a shit about other people.   

[Ethernut]

3 hours ago, wabashcr said:

 But if we can't force that to happen peacefully (and we obviously can't), why not try to help mitigate a bad situation any way we can?

... I'm tired of living in a country (or a world) run by people who don't give a shit about other people.   

Not intending to get drawn in to the Trump/Anti-Trump new-policy/old-policy narrative here but just wanted kindly to offer a bit of perspective. First on the, "mitigate a bad situation any way we can." Folks that have never been to Cuba or spent more than a few hours fully understanding their situation will naturally be short-sighted on Cuba. Americans especially, as we tend think the world needs us and that we're somehow special.  Here's the truth as plain as I can say it. Cuba doesn't need the US. Cuba could have chosen at any time in the last 50 years to have taken investments from a great many countries, then help make those investments profitable. As it stands, if you're an off-shore business in Cuba, the Gov't takes 50% of your bottom line. Take 50% of your earning potential off the top and then count in the petty theft that can occur in, say, a services business (like a hotel/resort) with your employees making a Gov't wage ($27/month) then pilfering simple items such as toilet paper and silverware. One can't really have a profitable business (at least, in the way we think of profitable in the US). The net result is, Cuba drives away business and money while encouraging mediocrity instead of the other way around. Cuba doesn't look and operate the way it does because it didn't have the American money, it looks and operates the way it does because the Government clings to the socialist idea. It chooses to. ...then there's the hypocrisy of Cuba that is rarely uttered. There's a _very_ _clear_ oligarchy there. An entire upper class hiding its wealth in plain sight. Wonder where that money comes from? The Cuban people. I will agree that my money spent there helped the folks whose hands it reached but that isn't a long-term solution. 

Second the, "... I'm tired of living in a country (or a world) run by people who don't give a shit about other people" statement. This could not be further from the truth and is such a broad sweeping statement rooted in the new normal of hyperbole I can't even wrap my head around it. We have so much of our wealth poured out over the earth. While I think your statement was an outward statement in that "we should care about other countries" (it can be well said based on a myriad of evidence that we do), I would like to turn this statement inward and share that the US does care about its people, our people have some of the best standards of all the earth due primarily due to the system we've adopted. Is it perfect? No, is it pretty darned good? Yes. Cuba could very much choose to allow their socio-economic situation to take a similar tack, but they do not, and we cannot legislate or force change in Cuba without their desire to follow suit. Finally a little phrase from Americana I'm partial to, that my Dad uses from time to time. "You can't push a rope..."

 

[BrightonCorgi]

5 hours ago, semifan1 said:

I don't work in the U.A.E or live there, were I work requires me to have a clearance and poly meaning if travel is not allowed to Cuba and it comes up on my polygraph that I went someplace off limits there could be problems. 

I too would keep all travel on the level if it is required maintain a job and clearance...  There was another thread on "Best cities for Habanos" that could have some good travel ideas.

[El Presidente]

“We are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do, who to be, or how to worship,” 

Trump: Saudi Arabia

 

"This is the simple truth of the Castro regime,My administration will not hide from it, excuse it or glamorize it. And we will never, ever be blind to it. We know what's going on and we remember what happened."

Trump: Cuba. 

[El Presidente]

one of the better breakdowns of the policy and how US members will be affected. 

Cuba Travel FAQ: What Trump’s Policy Changes Really Mean

https://skift.com/2017/06/16/cuba-travel-faq-what-trumps-policy-changes-really-mean/

[feral]

He also agreed to an arms deal with Qatar the same Qatar that their neighbors(Saudi Arabia, Bahrain) cut off diplomatic relations with accusing them of exporting terrorism. Not to mention the arms deal with the scumbag Saudi royals.

Logical consistency is not a strong suit of US foreign policy.

Is America great again yet ? Lol

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[Ninja]

There is one other potentially important aspect to the announcements. It involves the "no changes to what can be brought back from Cuba", ie cigars and rum.

I have had much direct experience with US customs. Conversations, debates, instruction, fights, and even won a year long appeal over what I considered an unlawful seizure. That said, customs has this thing called internal guidance. It is email direction from customs HQ that tells them how to define and interpret regulations. They can in essence rewrite the regulations and be in contrast to what is actually published publicly. Like when the $100 cigar and rum rule was up, internal guidance was issued that said that $100 is any 2 bottles of rum, and any 24 cigars. Also to customs the $100 was not what was spent in cuba, but what the street value of those items are in the US. I have been told that internal guidance has been used by those that oppose loosening with Cuba. If they can define definitions that are not specific by OFAC, then they can control the policy in their direction.

That said, let's say they do not change the current importation rules. But we are not allowed to spend money with business that are ran by the government. Well rum is made by government owned businesses. Cigars in the eyes of Customs are all from Habanos, a gov't venture, and sold in government stores. Therefore we are not allowed to buy them. So it is possible that without changing the current regs, they will functionally be changed to no cigars and no rum.

If OFAC is not VERY specific on this point, I feel customs will issue internal guidance, and potentially reduce what is allowed to less than the old $100 rule.

Of course, inspectors and supervisors have leeway in application of the rules, but in places that want to be tough on Cuba, for example TAMPA, they may rely on internal guidance that very well make it problematic for people trying to bring back cigars and rum.

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[GasGuy82]

On 6/16/2017 at 4:23 PM, JR Kipling said:

I don't recall if I wrote this on another forum or here. This is all about US presidential election politics and the key state of Florida. There's a large block of Cuban-American voters who don't want the embargo lifted. So it hasn't been. Both D and R candidates have made their political calculations with this in mind for over 50 years. - - There isn't a large enough or powerful enough block currently, that wishes to change that. Their interests don't align with such a change.

Americans weren't flocking to travel to Cuba after the change in policy was announced. It seems the infrastructure in Cuba isn't developed well enough to attract American travelers on a large scale. Flight schedules were already being rolled back.
Well, at least Americans will be able to bring more CCs home from their overseas travels. And those of us concerned about the potential impact on CC quality if the U.S. market were fully opened, likely won't need to consider that for awhile.

Since most of us aren't Florida voters, we have little influence on this anyway.


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It is actually a bit more complex than this. From my reading, after Trump was embarrassed the first time he tried to roll back Obamacare without the votes, he was forced to cut a deal with a number of legislators including Marco Rubio. Part of the price to deliver the votes necessary for the first phase of the rollback was a reset of the Obama era loosening of rules on Cuba to appease a number of Rubio and the President's hard line supporters in South florida.  

[clutch5150]

If I read the true politics (and I HOPE I am wrong). Be prepared for HEAVY RE-INVOLVEMENT with Russia and Putin in Cuba more than it is now.  More oil is now flowing from Russia since Venezuela has fallen on their sword. We have now opened that door wide open IMHO. IF that happens, you can bet things will really get worse, MUCH worse with US relationships with Cuba.

[Santiago]

16 hours ago, Ninja said:

There is one other potentially important aspect to the announcements. It involves the "no changes to what can be brought back from Cuba", ie cigars and rum.

I have had much direct experience with US customs. Conversations, debates, instruction, fights, and even won a year long appeal over what I considered an unlawful seizure. That said, customs has this thing called internal guidance. It is email direction from customs HQ that tells them how to define and interpret regulations. They can in essence rewrite the regulations and be in contrast to what is actually published publicly. Like when the $100 cigar and rum rule was up, internal guidance was issued that said that $100 is any 2 bottles of rum, and any 24 cigars. Also to customs the $100 was not what was spent in cuba, but what the street value of those items are in the US. I have been told that internal guidance has been used by those that oppose loosening with Cuba. If they can define definitions that are not specific by OFAC, then they can control the policy in their direction.

That said, let's say they do not change the current importation rules. But we are not allowed to spend money with business that are ran by the government. Well rum is made by government owned businesses. Cigars in the eyes of Customs are all from Habanos, a gov't venture, and sold in government stores. Therefore we are not allowed to buy them. So it is possible that without changing the current regs, they will functionally be changed to no cigars and no rum.

If OFAC is not VERY specific on this point, I feel customs will issue internal guidance, and potentially reduce what is allowed to less than the old $100 rule.

Of course, inspectors and supervisors have leeway in application of the rules, but in places that want to be tough on Cuba, for example TAMPA, they may rely on internal guidance that very well make it problematic for people trying to bring back cigars and rum.

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Buying custom cigars directly from the farmer doesn't involve the government. 

[Ninja]

Buying custom cigars directly from the farmer doesn't involve the government. 

 

Absolutely, and customs has had an exemption for that in the past too under the $100 rule....although many customs agents were not aware of it. They will require documentation on it. Just be prepared. Also they consider proof a pic of the cigars you buy at the farm with the farmer/or his worker. Receipt would be smart from them too.

 

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[semifan1]

17 hours ago, Ninja said:

There is one other potentially important aspect to the announcements. It involves the "no changes to what can be brought back from Cuba", ie cigars and rum.

I have had much direct experience with US customs. Conversations, debates, instruction, fights, and even won a year long appeal over what I considered an unlawful seizure. That said, customs has this thing called internal guidance. It is email direction from customs HQ that tells them how to define and interpret regulations. They can in essence rewrite the regulations and be in contrast to what is actually published publicly. Like when the $100 cigar and rum rule was up, internal guidance was issued that said that $100 is any 2 bottles of rum, and any 24 cigars. Also to customs the $100 was not what was spent in cuba, but what the street value of those items are in the US. I have been told that internal guidance has been used by those that oppose loosening with Cuba. If they can define definitions that are not specific by OFAC, then they can control the policy in their direction.

That said, let's say they do not change the current importation rules. But we are not allowed to spend money with business that are ran by the government. Well rum is made by government owned businesses. Cigars in the eyes of Customs are all from Habanos, a gov't venture, and sold in government stores. Therefore we are not allowed to buy them. So it is possible that without changing the current regs, they will functionally be changed to no cigars and no rum.

If OFAC is not VERY specific on this point, I feel customs will issue internal guidance, and potentially reduce what is allowed to less than the old $100 rule.

Of course, inspectors and supervisors have leeway in application of the rules, but in places that want to be tough on Cuba, for example TAMPA, they may rely on internal guidance that very well make it problematic for people trying to bring back cigars and rum.

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That's a lot of Gray area with " Internal guidance" I can see them using that when they want. I'll have to ask in July how people have fared before I bring my stash home.

[Ninja]

That's a lot of Gray area with " Internal guidance" I can see them using that when they want. I'll have to ask in July how people have fared before I bring my stash home.

The new rules won't be in effect in July. There is not a set date for them to be officially written and Define common but there is some talk around a 90-day time frame. But I also read this week that once the rules are written, there will be an additional 30 days afterwards that the old laws will still apply.

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[semifan1]

1 minute ago, Ninja said:

The new rules won't be in effect in July. There is not a set date for them to be officially written and Define common but there is some talk around a 90-day time frame. But I also read this week that once the rules are written, there will be an additional 30 days afterwards that the old laws will still apply.

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Good to know. Thanks for the info and glad to see you won against the system.

[luv2fly]

Sorry if this has already been addressed but what about bringing cigars back from other countries?  I read somewhere that the 100 cigar tax free limit would remain in place.  I can't remember where I saw that.  I know this is only speculation until the new regs are written.  My spider sense is tingling that the news may not be good.

[Ninja]

Sorry if this has already been addressed but what about bringing cigars back from other countries?  I read somewhere that the 100 cigar tax free limit would remain in place.  I can't remember where I saw that.  I know this is only speculation until the new regs are written.  My spider sense is tingling that the news may not be good.

As of right now the word is that the 100 cigar tax-free limit will stay in place. However if they do not allow the cigars because they were bought from a government own business, then this would apply two purchases overseas as well.

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[luv2fly]

Thanks!  I assume that would mean LCDH although they are franchises owned by individuals in said country if I am not mistaken.  We will see.

[Ninja]

I am concerned that they will say rhe underlying product is from government businesses, so the end supplier is irrelevant.

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[luv2fly]

5 minutes ago, Ninja said:

I am concerned that they will say rhe underlying product is from government businesses, so the end supplier is irrelevant.

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I fear that as well.  Fingers crossed....

[Ethernut]

14 minutes ago, SenorPerfecto said:

As far as I am aware, the following are all true:

..............

Seems dead-on everything I've read. I'm very curious how much the receipt BS will be enforced. If so, it'll begin to become easier and less hassle to hop in to Cuba from a surrounding island once again than to go on the level. 

 

[luv2fly]

There was a time, if I recall correctly, that custom agents were stationed in various international airports looking out for Americans on inbound flights from Cuba.  I would assume it was airports where a US citizen pre clears US customs before the outbound flight. Supposedly they were pulled aside.  This may just be rumor or just  but I seem to remember this going around back in the day when I was still in the business.  Stamp or no stamp, one gets off a flight inbound from Cuba and well, there you go.