Question: Percentage of Counterfeited Cuban Cigars

[oliverdst]

Of course there isn't an exactly number but does anybody know the percentagemof fake CC's out there?

An article or something like that would be helpful.

Usually I wouldnt care but this subject was discussed today among some Brazilian smokers and a respected lado was debased when he said the number was high.

[MahDooRow]

This is an interesting question, but I don't think the actual number could be known with any degree of confidence.  

[El Presidente]

The figure (estimation) that I was told by an old Habanos friend a decade ago was approximately 70 million.  

Sounds like a lot until you think that Rocky Patel produces 20 million cigars a year. 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

The answer is a lot. Tens of millions. Maybe a hundred million +, or one-for-one for the real thing. Who knows.

I can tell you that if you're in the Caribbean or Mexico, the fakes will outnumber the real thing. By far. 

[PapaDisco]

A couple years ago I offered a Punch DC to another fellow I was working on a show (amateur) with.  He immediately exclaimed, "Hey a real one!" and then went on to explain that in his 'day' job he was involved with a team of inspectors on a project for the U.S. Customs service where they reviewed USCS' pile of confiscated "Cuban" cigars in an effort to estimate how many were fakes.  He said that the number ran to about 90% being fakes   

That's just stuff being shipped to the U.S. of course, and who knows how accurate the consultants' estimate was, but the guy seemed to know his stuff and thoroughly enjoyed the FOH sourced 2012 Punch DC I gave him. 

[Leopolis Semper Fidelis]

When I examined the (alleged) Cuban cigars on display at a duty free outlet at Quito (Ecuador) airport some years ago, it was quite apparent they were fakes.  The "Cohiba" glass-topped lid was a dead give-away!

[DBNInc]

2 hours ago, Leopolis Semper Fidelis said:

When I examined the (alleged) Cuban cigars on display at a duty free outlet at Quito (Ecuador) airport some years ago, it was quite apparent they were fakes.  The "Cohiba" glass-topped lid was a dead give-away!

Wow, in an airport duty free?  That's one of the few places outside of an LCDH I would expect to be able to buy from in complete confidence!

[canadianbeaver]

Never a surprise in this market. The demand among those to pay less, do not know better, and think the price is great keep the business steady.

Also happens  in other categories of specific expensive items. Yes, cigars are expensive items.

Fortunately when you know what you are talking about and only use the trusted source(s) where you get your cigars, this is practically a non-issue.

CB

 

[LordAnubis]

I would htink it depends on how you classify "counterfeit"

A cigar claiming to be "cuban", that was actually not rolled by a Cuban and didn't contain Cuban tobacco? Very few i'd imagine.

A cigar that was represented as a cohiba, but was not rolled by a cohiba roller in a cohiba factory with cohiba issued tobacco? a shite load.

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

I would htink it depends on how you classify "counterfeit"

A cigar claiming to be "cuban", that was actually not rolled by a Cuban and didn't contain Cuban tobacco? Very few i'd imagine.

A cigar that was represented as a cohiba, but was not rolled by a cohiba roller in a cohiba factory with cohiba issued tobacco? a shite load.

I classify counterfeit as anything not exactly as stated. This includes your second descriptor of basically a cigar with Cuban tobacco rolled by perhaps a Cuban professional roller in a Cuban factory but doesn't leave the factory as an HSA product. That's a counterfeit cigar to me. There is, of course, the caveat that those cigars are "Cuban cigars". But they are just as counterfeit as a Swisher Sweet with a Cohiba band. If you call it a custom roll or something like that, that changes things. But as long as it's passed off as a HSA-controlled marca, it's fugazi. 

I also think that most of the world's fakes (except those within Cuba) do not contain any Cuban tobacco. It's too tightly controlled and limited in supply, and only small amounts of raw tobacco ever leave the island, pretty much only to go directly to LCDHs for custom rolls there. The vast majority of fakes in North America and the Caribbean are probably Mexican tobacco, with the rest coming out of the big 3 of Honduras, DR and Nicaragua. Many of them are already-made low-end premium sticks that can be obtained for less than a dollar each and easily marked up to $5-15 each.  Mexican premium/semi-premium tobacco looks decent, is plentiful, easy to get locally and is dirt cheap. I would imagine a decent-looking wrapper is probably the most costly part of the equation, as it must reasonably pass for a premium Cuban stick. But I have see some decent-looking Mexican wrappers on even old Te-Amos that could easily pass for below-average premium Cuban.

[El Presidente]

35 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The vast majority of fakes in North America and the Caribbean are probably Mexican tobacco, with the rest coming out of the big 3 of Honduras, DR and Nicaragua. 

Fakes in Asia are plentiful.

• There is plenty of tobacco grown in this region (Philippines, Indonesia, China, Vietnam), 
• Copying tubes and boxes is not a problem. 
• High Government taxes in most countries make it very profitable. 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 minute ago, El Presidente said:

Fakes in Asia are plentiful.

• There is plenty of tobacco grown in this region (Philippines, Indonesia, China, Vietnam), 
• Copying tubes and boxes is not a problem. 
• High Government taxes in most countries make it very profitable. 

Yes, I would imagine that's true.

I wasn't sure of the state of tobacco production or fakes in Asia, so my assessment concerned only North America, having spent enough time in Mexico and Central America to comment on that.

One thing you don't see often in North America are the tubes and boxes copied. Old, beat up (but likely genuine) boxes are often used and I've seen some real rough looking tubes for fake RyJ Churchills, but generally you see the fakes in North America repackaged into smaller custom boxes, like Cohibas in glass-top 5 cases. The only brands I've ever seen faked are the global brands, and in the 21st century they've pretty much given up on Partagas and RyJ. Cohiba and Monte make up 99% of all the fakes these days, and I haven't seen a fake Partagas or RyJ (except the Churchill) in ages.

[El Presidente]

4 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

One thing you don't see often in North America are the tubes and boxes copied. Old, beat up (but likely genuine) boxes are often used and I've seen some real rough looking tubes for fake RyJ Churchills, but generally you see the fakes in North America repackaged into smaller custom boxes, like Cohibas in glass-top 5 cases. The only brands I've ever seen faked are the global brands, and in the 21st century they've pretty much given up on Partagas and RyJ. Cohiba and Monte make up 99% of all the fakes these days, and I haven't seen a fake Partagas or RyJ (except the Churchill) in ages.

Dead set give away on fake tubes and latches in Asia is..........how much better they are that the authentic product 

[cigcars]

     * I've read numerous articles on the subject through the years, and yet I don't really recall too many of those articles being able to give even a guestimate on a particular percentage of cigars that are fakes.  Only that the counterfeit cigar business is so lucrative, drug dealers were switching to the business of selling fake Cubans because the penalties were not as heavy as for selling drugs, and the financial gain was just as good!  The only thing I can contribute in answer to this question is that one has to assume that those "Habanos for sale" under the table in some establishments that can be had a little too easily are very possibly fakes. The proprietor only has to know that you're not a "Fed" or a blabbermouth to too many ears that can reach a goody-two-shoes-do-gooder-somebody, and out will come some, at times, very plausible looking smokes with Habana cigar bands on them. 

[archie]

Last time I was in the Caribbean there were a number of 2004 and 2005 Cohiba DC EL's.  Bands looked great.

[shlomo]

How many fake LV bags are out there?

How many fake (pirated) movies are out there?

How much fake cash is out there?

 

[DBNInc]

4 hours ago, shlomo said:

How many fake LV bags are out there?

How many fake (pirated) movies are out there?

How much fake cash is out there?

 

Bags, at least 1,000 times whatever the number of real ones is, and that's just the number they've managed to sell.  People buy fake LV, Gucci, etc bags KNOWING they're fake.  They sell them to less knowledgeable people, or use them as beaters.

Movies?  Cash?  Innumerable.

I think fake Cubans is probably in the minority fake-wise (compared to these other examples) just because cigars are a smaller market to begin with!

[shlomo]

8 hours ago, DBNInc said:

Bags, at least 1,000 times whatever the number of real ones is, and that's just the number they've managed to sell.  People buy fake LV, Gucci, etc bags KNOWING they're fake.  They sell them to less knowledgeable people, or use them as beaters.

Movies?  Cash?  Innumerable.

I think fake Cubans is probably in the minority fake-wise (compared to these other examples) just because cigars are a smaller market to begin with!

In terms of total numbers, probably. In terms of percentage. ..I would guess similar.

All one has to do is run a Google search for cuban cigars for sale. Or look at any major Canadian city's Craigslist, or even eBay...how many of those searches come up with the real deal?

[GP012]

I don't think anyone could put a hard number on the amount of counterfeit cigars out there but there certainly are a few variations. I can't guess as to a percentage of fake vs real, but can certainly estimate percentages for types of fakes.

Stupid Tourist Edition ~60%
These are your run of the mill glass top Fauxhiba Esplendidos that are being hawked by beach vendors or back alley sharks. These are usually what the cruise ship tourist brings back for their cigar smoking relatives as a "thoughtful" gift. Also found in gift shops, convenience stores and supposed duty free shops around the world. 60% might be too conservative of an estimate.

Edicion Limitada Edition ~20%
These are more nefarious as they are targeting the Havana smoker who's a little more knowledgeable but may not be fully aware of what they are getting into. 2004 Cohiba Sublimes, 2000 Partagas Piramides, etc are common examples of these highly faked cigars. The fugazis are usually are sold for much higher prices than glass top fauxhibas although not quite market price for the genuine examples.


 

And last but not least and my favorites, the STD (Stupid Tourist or Dumbass) Edition ~20%. These are always good for a laugh because they combine the silliness of the attention grabbing glass box - including loose warranty seal & habanos chevron "look how authentic these are!" - with the insanity of an extra limited edition barber pole, special size/release or all of the above. Let's see how much shit we can fling at the wall and hope all of it sticks.

[DBNInc]

3 hours ago, gpugliese said:

...And last but not least and my favorites, the STD (Stupid Tourist or Dumbass) Edition ~20%. These are always good for a laugh because they combine the silliness of the attention grabbing glass box - including loose warranty seal & habanos chevron "look how authentic these are!" - with the insanity of an extra limited edition barber pole, special size/release or all of the above. Let's see how much shit we can fling at the wall and hope all of it sticks.

Not gonna lie, I would buy these (for next to nothing, of course) just for the laughs.

[DBNInc]

6 hours ago, shlomo said:

In terms of total numbers, probably. In terms of percentage. ..I would guess similar.

All one has to do is run a Google search for cuban cigars for sale. Or look at any major Canadian city's Craigslist, or even eBay...how many of those searches come up with the real deal?

New York's craigslist is no slouch either!  Amazing how much crap is out there.

[clutch5150]

Heck, the fakes in Havana are enough to make your head spin!  Even at a bar and grill I visited, they had fake Cohiba's in abundance.

[luv2fly]

I still have the glass top Espys box.  I keep it for laughs and to warn my friends.  There are 2 that do not listen and I have to break the news.  They hate me for it but later thank me.

[bnasse9900]

Has anyone accidentally (or intentionally) purchased counterfeit Cuban cigars while in Cuba (or abroad) and found them as good as (or better than) their non-counterfeit counterparts?

Convoluted sentence, but you get the point.  

While in the Dominican a few years ago I purchased fake Cohiba Maduro 5's (accidentally). I had a few left over and lit one up the other day. It was actually not half bad.  No Cohiba, but a decent maduro stick.

[maxcjs0101]

I wished i had a Cohiba glass top box as a novelty.