Palate Training

[El Presidente]

I received a great e-mail overnight asking in essence how one goes about expanding his/her ability to taste flavours in cigars. 

Now in this case, he can taste the "sweeter side of life" ...the caramels and the sugars but it appears not much else. 

I have responded with my thoughts (and will post that later) but i would really appreciate your thoughts in order that a more balanced response can be provided. 

Post your thoughts when you get a chance 

[Mattb82]

Very interested in this 

[jazzboypro]

So do i

[Philc2001]

I'm very interested in this too. 

Years ago I was taught by a good friend that a lot of what we taste is also linked to aromas. This applies especially to cigar smoking because we get so much sensory input from the aroma.

Wine tasters are known to train their senses using little vials filled with different herbs and spices to smell while sniffing and tasting wines so you can relate and more easily identify them. I have also recently learned that expert Whisky blenders do something similar with different raw spirits. I personally have done a little training like using basic kitchen herbs and spices to help me with wine tasting as well as with cigar smoking, and you would be surprised what your nose and taste buds tell you once you learn to discretely identify certain characteristics. 

BTW, I have found that chefs and bakers are really good at relating kitchen aromas with cigar aromas, so I think there is some merit to this approach.

[Jeremy Festa]

It is widely thought/taught that everyone has a similar ability to sense/experience a large variety of flavours. The tricky bit is putting those experiences into words. 

[spivey6690]

Smoking while staring at a flavor (flavour) wheel helps me.  

[Fugu]

Needs no fancy hocus-pocus, in my opinion. Comes by smoking. As the title sais - it's a training. You learn to detect, distinguish and appreciate things once you've experienced them. Takes time, there is no shortcut.

[raymond5737]

Whatever you do, don't burn your palate out by smoking/drawing until the cigar gets too hot. If you do this, you won't taste much of anything for a while.

[JohnS]

As a practical guide, consider how one can prepare their palate to savour cognac. I know the brandy balloon is the traditional glassware, but if you use a tulip snifter glass, warm up the cognac in your hand, periodically sniff the cognac deeply, you'll find your palate will be better prepared to appreciate the cognac. Finally, after a little time warming and sniffing, sip the cognac and swill it in your mouth to savour it.

Similarly, how many times have you noticed Rob give Ken a cigar to review in their videos and Ken immediately takes the cigar to his nose to take the aroma into his palate? Often right? Next, when you light your cigar, don't be too quick about it and char the foot, you'll end up with a bitter taste for a few puffs. Take your time to light your cigar with the lighter flame further away from the foot. Finally, sip on the cigar and taste the smoke in your mouth...savour it and exhale. Puff slowly to avoid overheating and so you'd be less likely to encounter any bitterness. 

[Miner]

I think "sipping" the cigar is the key. If you take a big pull on the cigar you'll overwhelm your senses. A gentle puff and then swirl your tongue around the smoke and you'll pick up all sorts of flavours. The skill then is to identify what you are tasting ....


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[Corylax18]

38 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Needs no fancy hocus-pocus, in my opinion. Comes by smoking. As the title sais - it's a training. You learn to detect, distinguish and appreciate things once you've experienced them. Takes time, there is no shortcut.

Agreed completely. I've found this to be the case with a lot of things. Food, beer, spirits, cigars. I love trying to pick flavors or seasonings out of a really good plate of food. Trying to figure out that "secret ingredient." The more styles and types of food I've tried the better I've learn to discern the nuances in each. I feel cigars are the same way, the more you try, the better you can discern and discribe those differences. 

[Smallclub]

39 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Needs no fancy hocus-pocus, in my opinion. Comes by smoking. As the title sais - it's a training. You learn to detect, distinguish and appreciate things once you've experienced them. Takes time, there is no shortcut.

This. And I'd add: pay attention to EVERYTHING you smell, taste, eat, drink, etc. For example, try to weigh the amount of salt in that dish, do I really must add some? …etc…

[Dimmers]

20 minutes ago, Miner said:

I think "sipping" the cigar is the key. If you take a big pull on the cigar you'll overwhelm your senses. A gentle puff and then swirl your tongue around the smoke and you'll pick up all sorts of flavours. The skill then is to identify what you are tasting ....

What Clive said. Also learning how to retrohale, doing this every so often enhances the flavour detecting experience.

[Smallclub]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Festa said:

It is widely thought/taught that everyone has a similar ability to sense/experience a large variety of flavours.

Not really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster

[danny]

Personally, here is what I always say when I explain to people new to cigars or that don't understand them.  

 

The way I explain it is in line with eating.  To really appreciate the flavors of a cigar, you have to incorporate the sense of smell as it is a vital part of the process.  For me, it would be "retrohaling" throughout the cigar and for others it may be just a tad.   For example, when eating with a common cold,  stuffy nose and all, you'll get a basic sense of what the flavors are as far as sour, sweet, salty, spicy, etc. but it ends there.  The same should be applied when smoking cigars. When you're not sick and use your nose to smell what you're eating (also breathing in/out while doing so), it changes the profile and experience completely, creating the sense of "Umami" along with other subtle notes that you may not have picked up without the sense of smell.  Hence why eating while sick isn't the most pleasurable thing to do.

Same goes for wine or whiskey.  Aerating the wine by swirling it to let it breathe, smelling the wine first, sipping it, inhaling/exhaling through the mouth AND nose to understand the wine, and so on.  And you're also not chugging a whole cup down but savoring it slowly, like a cigar should be appreciated/smoked.  (this really got me thinking the other day actually while watching a pretty recognizable figure on YouTube reviewing a cigar, taking very large puffs, about 20-30 times in a row before taking half the cigar that was just gnawed to hell out of his mouth to mumble some words....  But I guess to each, his own...)

 

My 2 cents...

[Jeremy Festa]

7 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

Not really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster

I said similar, and widely. Didn't want to get too deep. Also, literally thought to myself when posting, "can't wait for Smallclub's fabulous and enriching contribution to the dissection of semantics and accuracy of conversational posts." "As a French speaker will he look at the specifics rather than the 'widely' and the broad spectrum rather than the 'similar?" "Should I mention super tasters." "Is it a myth?" "Will it add to the conversation?"

But then I thought, "nah, just post the one liner." For the chat like. 

Thanks though. 

Really. 

 

[Cep]

Hmm   I can't not retrohale and I have a hard time tasting much of anything   

 

[MrGlass]

13 minutes ago, Dimmers said:

Also learning how to retrohale, doing this every so often enhances the flavour detecting experience.

I've tried this but never had a huge amount of success - occasionally it works but most of the time it seems to end up with the opposite affect.  

My palate is pretty basic and accepting that fact has made a real difference to my enjoyment level.  Using a flavour wheel definitely helps for attempting reviews and the like, and I'm content if I can identify flavours at a simple level, ie sweet, spice, pepper.  

[jrusso14]

Looking at a flavorwheel while smoking is a good start. I personally think retrohaling is a must when trying to discern more complex flavors. Sometimes I like to do a "review" of the cigar I am smoking and jot down the key flavors I am picking up. After doing so, I will read notes from any of the trusted reviewers on the web and see how my flavor notes compare. If they have flavors I was unable to find, I will keep that in mind the next time I smoke that same cigar.

 

 

[Smallclub]

45 minutes ago, Jeremy Festa said:

I said similar, and widely. Didn't want to get too deep. Also, literally thought to myself when posting, "can't wait for Smallclub's fabulous and enriching contribution to the dissection of semantics and accuracy of conversational posts." "As a French speaker will he look at the specifics rather than the 'widely' and the broad spectrum rather than the 'similar?" "Should I mention super tasters." "Is it a myth?" "Will it add to the conversation?"

But then I thought, "nah, just post the one liner." For the chat like.

 

Yeah, sure. Is that your justification for posting a huge counter-truth? Gee…

[Dimmers]

39 minutes ago, MrGlass said:

I've tried this but never had a huge amount of success - occasionally it works but most of the time it seems to end up with the opposite affect.  

Im not the best at ye olde retrohale whizzbangery either. I sometimes push too much smoke way fast and get the none too pleasant reward of burning pepper sensation in the nostrils for some smokes. Practice and trying to push out smoke ever so slowly helps for me.

 

[Jeremy Festa]

11 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

Yeah, sure. Is that your justification for posting a huge counter-truth? Gee…

Frankly Frank. It is but a small justification to keep things jovial and fun. And I am 100% honest in saying, that "IS" exactly what I thought when posting. 

For the record, There is some debate as to whether my nephew may, or may not, have/suffer from it. It is not a pleasant existence while young. 

Specific smells like toothpaste, burnt rubber, bad breath, certain foods can really knock him about and he spew everywhere as a result. He's 5 years old. 

Actually fancy my own senses, because if I am upwind, I can warn the others, as to "this incoming smell/scent" may trigger him. 

 

 

[mgravito]

1 hour ago, Smallclub said:

This. And I'd add: pay attention to EVERYTHING you smell, taste, eat, drink, etc. For example, try to weigh the amount of salt in that dish, do I really must add some? …etc…

This, a thousand times this. I think you posted this at some point last year and it seemed so obvious at the time, but I never thought about really thoroughly tasting everything you eat. I actually started doing this more often as a result and I honestly believe it makes you more in tune with your own sense of taste and smell. Something as simple as a hamburger. Where does the taste of the burger, where is the taste of the bun? I know I'll never be a super taster, but it helps to at least be able to identify what you are tasting with a reference point.

[mrretrohale]

I feel that having prompts might help. Smoking with someone more "experienced" to feed you with descriptors is beneficial but at the same time you need to not get sucked in by the placebo. And hopefully they aren't the sort to think less of you for not being able to "find" the flavours


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[lafabrica]

individuals simply don't taste things the same.  it’s what makes us unique.  no problem there.

everyone doesn't have the same palate.  limiting food choices plays a role here.  without sampling/tasting various types, it’s hard to reference a specific aroma.

for example, chocolate.  milk, dark, white, couverture, unsweet, bitter, high/low cacao %.  when people mention this flavor, it would benefit to know that range of nuances.

 

the association of wine and cigars is valid.  being taught how to "inhale" wine while sipping opens a world of nuance.  

my thoughts - retrohaling will expand the ability to taste.  smoking without is pointless for me.  

simple test - eat your meal (or drink) while holding your nose shut.