"Dry Boxing"

[spivey6690]

I feel like I've seen this phrase in 24:24 on multiple occasions.  May have been "dry aging" or something similar.  I tried to search the forum with no luck.  What does this refer to exactly?  I have been loading my boxes in my enormous cooler and keeping my temperature at 65 degF and my humidity at 61% or so.  Cigars are burning damn well at this "setting."  Do I need to do something different before I smoke certain boxes that should be "'dry boxed?"  Should I move certain cigars to a 70/70 humidor?  I'm confused.  

[Smallclub]

 

[spivey6690]

Thanks.  I have no idea why the search didn't yield that result last night.  

[BarryNY]

1 hour ago, spivey6690 said:

Cigars are burning damn well at this "setting."  

you answered your own question!

[JohnS]

Yeah, I wouldn't change a thing!

[spivey6690]

Thanks for the input.  I just read the thread--great information. I might try "dry boxing" a few sticks to see how they taste after 24--48 hours.  

[stogieluver]

You are already essentially dry boxing at 61%.  You could try giving them a few days at 55%-58%, but I find low 60's rH to be ideal at around 70df.  Do not take them to 70% unless you like harsh taste, uneven burn, and frequent relights. 

[Bohn007]

22 minutes ago, spivey6690 said:

Thanks for the input.  I just read the thread--great information. I might try "dry boxing" a few sticks to see how they taste after 24--48 hours.  

I never bother dry boxing. I am too ADD about what I want to smoke to be able to think of what I might want to smoke 3-4 days from now. For me, I keep the humidity at 64% and they are usually good to go. 

[soutso]

I used to try dry boxing as it definitely improved the smoking experience. Then I started to store at 60 RH and 70 degrees (21.1 deg Celsius) and guess what? No need to dry box! 

If anything, dry boxing proves that storing at lower RH and even temp around 70 is the way to go.

[subport]

I would not bother with it as your settings are good and the cigars are smoking well...

[Mycroft]

imho it depends on the cigar and on your particular taste. 65F/61 is pretty dry. Many cigars taste better at 70/70 for me personally, and burn fine. Others won't burn/draw well at all and/or don't taste good. I keep two humidors. One at 70/70, the other at 70/62. I like intense flavors and I keep cigars at 70/70 by default. If they aren't doing well then I shift them to 62. I know this is counter to most opinion here, but taste is subjective. If you don't have a fixed opinion about it then it is maybe worth doing a test. This is what I did. Take a few of the same cigar, cut them, pair them to have the same draw, put one of each pair in a 'dry' humidor for at least a week, and the other in a 'wet' humidor and then smoke the cigars from  each pair close together (so you remember how the other tasted).

[GrouchoMarx]

I keep a cigar box on top of JFK (my desktop humi) - sometimes I'll pop a stick in there to dry it a bit over night for a next day smoke.

[clutch5150]

Damn when go to Fiji for summer vacations, I WISH I could dry box something out on Turtle Island sitting out on a counter top does no good!

[PapaDisco]

3 hours ago, clutch5150 said:

Damn when go to Fiji for summer vacations, I WISH I could dry box something out on Turtle Island sitting out on a counter top does no good!

Yeah me too!  I don't know how they ever get one lit in Cuba.   Heat and humidity are my enemy when I travel in Asia.

At 65F/61rH you would never need to dry box.  Maybe if you got a brand new, particularly greasy looking box of fat boys, you might want to dry box those before smoking them young, but like others have said, 61rH is already "dry boxed" and is close to ambient rH in places like San Francisco, etc.

Should one store wetter and smoke dryer?  I know the prevailing wisdom is that it's a waste of effort to store at one rH and smoke at another, but the chemistry of the cigar during aging could be influenced by water content.  This is just a guess, since cigar aging is so poorly understood, but in other processes excess water can change the chemical interactions.

[jmg]

Concur with everyone that the OPs conditions dont really require dry boxing.

For the dry boxing mentioned in 24:24s, I think most of those mentioned by Rob refer to cigars that are extremely oily and thus will probably be a little bit more wet. He mentions that for some of the PSP stock. Or cigars that have proven that they need dry boxing regardless. RyJ cazzies come to mind and probably most tubos. The cazzies probably because they are foil packed.

[spivey6690]

Thanks, everyone.  As an engineer, I obsess over crap like this.  

[BarryNY]

16 hours ago, clutch5150 said:

Damn when go to Fiji for summer vacations, I WISH I could dry box something out on Turtle Island sitting out on a counter top does no good!

Didn't someone mention in another thread that if you put the cigar in the fridge for a bit - you'll be able to pull the moisture content down fast???

Unless they don't have refrigerators on Turtle Island.....LOL.....

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, BarryNY said:

Didn't someone mention in another thread that if you put the cigar in the fridge for a bit - you'll be able to pull the moisture content down fast???

Unless they don't have refrigerators on Turtle Island.....LOL.....

... save yourself the trouble and douce your cigar! Do this trick yourself (with a precision scale) and you will find out that you will actually add water to the cigar. This is because the cigar comes from the freezer below the typical room temperature dew point, and water immediately condenses on the wrapper when you take it out. This loosens the wrapper in some cases...

Bwana swears by it, but he is a vendor, and that makes him more (or less) than human! -LOL -the Pig

[Fugu]

On 03/12/2016 at 2:45 PM, Mycroft said:

imho it depends on the cigar and on your particular taste. 65F/61 is pretty dry. Many cigars taste better at 70/70 for me personally, and burn fine. Others won't burn/draw well at all and/or don't taste good. I keep two humidors. One at 70/70, the other at 70/62. I like intense flavors and I keep cigars at 70/70 by default. If they aren't doing well then I shift them to 62. I know this is counter to most opinion here, but taste is subjective.

This is an interesting post I find worth further discussing. I like your stating it despite the fact that a majority here will strongly disagree. But I think there surely is truth in it. We had a long (lengthy) discussion with a new member here a short while back who insisted on 'exact' values for CCs at 70% rH or above, purportedly backed by "experts", being certainly way off-scale. But I agree in that too dry will also pose issues. While moisture has a strong effect on burn, dryer certainly not always means better. There is a particular range representing an optimum - also much pertaining to personal preference. And we have to distinguish between the effects, direct and indirect, of water content on burn and on taste.

Of course, the dryer the material the easier the burn and the more complete will be the combustion. That is exactly what you'd want for a clean burn in your wood stove, as you won't lose much energy wasted to cooking out the water from the fuel and won't get much of smoldering products. In a cigar, perfect - in the sense of complete - combustion does not automatically equate to a perfect sensory result. Not news to most... smoking is a smoldering process. While water content affects burn and burn in turn affects taste, the water content also has a direct effect on taste as extractor and carrier (vapor) of flavour. A certain minimum amount of water helps keeping the ember in check and avoids it burning too hot and too quick. In unit with the particular smoking technique it controls the temperature of the combustion process, cools the smoke and as such has a strong effect on the amount of vaporized vs. burned substances, their quality and composition. So, the effect of water content really can't be valued high enough.

From my experience and preference, storing / smoking a cigar at or under 60% rH (19-20 °C), a value that is often discussed here, is too dry for my liking. My personal sweet spot appears to be higher than that. And, as you say, it also depends a lot on the particular cigar, its format and age. For instance, young cigars I tend to smoke dryer, while I prefer a higher humidity for conditioning matured cigars, which have shed a bit of their hygroscopicity. The line I always draw at the ability of the wrapper (and binder) to properly burn. An absolute prerequisite for a good-tasting cigar is the perfect burn of the wrapper. A canoeing or tunnelling cigar never provides a pleasant experience, as neither does the straw fire of a parched cigar. ...... Getting to the point - that's why I occasionally precondition ("dry-box") cigars from storage for smoking, in particular e.g. in young and tubed cigars.

As for moisture levels for storage and for smoking, and why they may not necessarily coincide, I'd also refer to the thread cited above by Smallclub. Consensus was that there was no consensus and that there still is much belief involved....

[LGC]

As much as this topic is beaten to death... nobody bothers to address one's smoking habit (frequency and degree of draws)... a major factor. In addition, ambient smoking conditions are just important as storage conditions (in terms of drastic differences in RH and temp).

[Fugu]

40 minutes ago, Brandon said:

... nobody bothers to address one's smoking habit (frequency and degree of draws)... a major factor.

2 hours ago, Fugu said:

In unit with the particular smoking technique ...

Right on! And there might even be a fine interplay between personal smoking habit and cigar moisture... (by the way - also holding for the burn (/-proofness) of wrappers, which can also - to a certain extent - be a matter of the proper intensity and cadence of drawing)